"Backwards" neckties in 1939?

["Skeet" McD]

Just finished watching FIVE CAME BACK, a 1939 semi-potboiler about an airliner forced down in the Amazon...you can imagine the rest. But there's one thing you probably can't imagine (at least I couldn't): as the characters are introduced one by one, I noticed that one of the men had his necktie tied "backwards" if you will: that is, the front end of the tie was several inches shorter than the back end. The character is an unpleasant private investigator, so I didn't think anything more than "it's just a way of showing that he isn't careful about his attire....nor much else, I suppose."

But then...a rich, well-dressed playboy type appears, and HE'S wearing HIS tie the same way. Soooo...perhaps someone can enlighten me:

Is this some strange fashion blip of short duration, basically a fad? or is there some context to this rather strange observation?

"Skeet"

 

[mike]

I can't comment on the bow tie, but from memory, I really liked the film. Didn't it feature a very young Lucille Ball as a prostitute?

 

["Skeet" McD]

Not a bow, but a long tie...

I can't comment on the bow tie, but from memory, I really liked the film. Didn't it feature a very young Lucille Ball as a prostitute?

Yup, that's the one. But the ties to which I refer are long neckties, not bowties, and the gentlemen wearing them are not wearing vests, so the effect was meant to be seen.

"Skeet"

 

[Lone_Ranger]

Not a bad movie. Was that based on a Michael Caidin, book? Or was that before his time?

Perhaps, you couldn't tell in B&W, I've had some ties in the past, that developed a nasty curl. So that the short end was always trying to trade places. They didn't last long with me. I would get rid of them. I don't know if it was a defect in the material, or cheaper material that causes it. Was it supposed to be a low budget, off-the-rack look for the Private Eye?

 

[Feraud]

I am not sure how intentional it was but both the officer (played by John Carradine) and the playboy were unsavory types. Perhaps their ties reflect this?

I can't comment on the bow tie, but from memory, I really liked the film. Didn't it feature a very young Lucille Ball as a prostitute?

That's the one. Good film.
The film was remade in '56 with Robert Ryan as Back from Eternity.

 

[reetpleat]

I can't say for certain. But it is not that uncommon back then. Often, men never took their jackets off, so they may have not cared all that much. Further, in the thirties it was rather stylish to look like you didn't care. Trench coats with the belt tied instead of buckled, collar flipped up in back, and some young men even wore their ties over one shoulder to look as if they had just run down the street in a sporting way i guess. I imagine tying your tie that way was a similar affectation.

 

[Foofoogal]

this is funny. Maybe a part of the racoon coat college boy thing back then. Interesting. Now I have to thumb thru my vintage magazines and see if I can find anything. I have run across some very strange college things people did over the years. [huh]

 

[BellyTank]

Slob thing...

Slob loosens tie- takes it off, over the head, lays it on chair.
Next morning, slob, "getting dressed in the dark", slips the tie over the head again... "backwards"...


B
T

 

[Guttersnipe]

Also, depending on how high the waist of your trousers is, you can tuck the "extra length" in. I sometimes do this with those two-toned ties 40's ties when the knot is meant to be a contrasting color from the rest of the tie.

 

["Skeet" McD]

Perhaps, you couldn't tell in B&W, I've had some ties in the past, that developed a nasty curl. So that the short end was always trying to trade places. They didn't last long with me. I would get rid of them. I don't know if it was a defect in the material, or cheaper material that causes it. Was it supposed to be a low budget, off-the-rack look for the Private Eye?

Good thought, but the ties lie perfectly flat; I would say it's pretty clear there's nothing wrong with the ties, per se.

"Skeet"

 

["Skeet" McD]

Also, depending on how high the waist of your trousers is, you can tuck the "extra length" in. I sometimes do this with those two-toned ties 40's ties when the knot is meant to be a contrasting color from the rest of the tie.

Good thought....the gent's trousers are both "high" to us, of course....but the ties end considerably above them, as I remember...

"Skeet"

 

[Dr Doran]

This is kind of interesting. I occasionally like to look unpleasant, especially when I shave my head completely bald. I think I may adopt it for limited occasions.

 

[John in Covina]

That front portion of the tie shorter than the back look comes up now and again in movies and old photos, it always puzzled me. It evokes the "That's just WRONG!" reaction from me.

I can say it does make the one area of OCD I have go nuts, I feel like wrestling them out of that tie and re-tying it while they watch!

 

[Schofields]

it really didnt matter to most guys back then. a regular run of the mill suit, shirt and tie back then was like jeans and a t shirt today.

 

[Sefton]

Apparently this is a look that is still practiced in Italy. A bit of the famous sprezzatura perhaps.

 

["Skeet" McD]

Well...maybe

it really didnt matter to most guys back then. a regular run of the mill suit, shirt and tie back then was like jeans and a t shirt today.

I think I see what you mean...but, respectfully, feel I disagree with you: the paradigm is correct (in terms of "daily wear, with no attempt to "say" something)....but I think the context was entirely different: contemporary generic fashion culture is almost built on the foundation of a studied "nonchalance" which acknowledges no requirements to do or dress in a certain way at a given time....their culture was almost a polar opposite, where almost everyone felt that there was a "proper" way to behave and dress for every situation...and almost everyone did so.

This "mis-tying" of a tie might go unnoticed today (the most noticeable thing might be merely that someone WAS wearing a tie...) but I think it was screaming SOME sort of a message then....

Only one man's opinion, as always.
"Skeet"

 

[Tomasso]

Apparently this is a look that is still practiced in Italy. A bit of the famous sprezzatura perhaps.

 

[BinkieBaumont]

[QUOTE="Skeet" McD]Just finished watching FIVE CAME BACK, a 1939 semi-potboiler about an airliner forced down in the Amazon...you can imagine the rest. But there's one thing you probably can't imagine (at least I couldn't): as the characters are introduced one by one, I noticed that one of the men had his necktie tied "backwards" if you will: that is, the front end of the tie was several inches shorter than the back end. The character is an unpleasant private investigator, so I didn't think anything more than "it's just a way of showing that he isn't careful about his attire....nor much else, I suppose."

But then...a rich, well-dressed playboy type appears, and HE'S wearing HIS tie the same way. Soooo...perhaps someone can enlighten me:

Is this some strange fashion blip of short duration, basically a fad? or is there some context to this rather strange observation?

"Skeet"[/QUOTE]
"Oh its happened to me, and I'm not a Sleazy Playboy type at all, when i have made a miscalculation when doing up a Double Windsor Knot, but I could not possibly sport such a tie in public, although I could be tempted if I saw other Coves sporting the tie at my Club""

 

[Torpedo]

Personally, I think the frontal blade must fall longer than the rear blade. This is one of those norms that have been always so. Norms like that the tie must not be tucked into the trousers, or that it must not fall below belt level.

I suppose it can be done on purpose, because of a sense of sprezzatura. But it can be easily mistaken by slovenliness or ignorance, which is the usual reason one sees these things done. The nonchalant attitude requires one knows the norm but willingly breaks it; frequently, what happens is that one is not really familiar, commits missteps and recurs to "nonchalance" as an excuse.

Of course, as has been noted, it is not that a great deal of people is aware enough of these norms to notice such details.

 

[avedwards]

Because of the way I knot my tie (I think it's called a shelby knot or something like that) I always end up with the back longer than the front, unless I have an exceptionally short tie. I get around it by carefully tucking the too long end through the space between the top button and the second from top button. It doesn't show as I make sure the front end completely covers it without being distorted. I prefer my strange method as the knot is always the right shape and size, and I always manage to get the tie the perfect length for me (1cm above my trouser waist).

Perhaps the characters could have benefited from tucking the back end away.