Back to the 80's

[Big J]

@Blackadder, Japan is ranked 110th for gender equality, so I believe my wife when she tells me EVERYTHING is sexist about Japan. There are strictly Islamic states that rank better.
Look at CNN today. There's a story about a pop idol apologizing for being assaulted by two men, who were given her address by her colleague for that purpose. No arrests.

Gundam essentially depicts an Earth v's space colonies struggle that is an analogy for western colonialism. There are good and bad individuals on both sides, and both sides commit war crimes. This is a common theme amongst Japanese war crime deniers; 'everyone did it anyway'.
Worth noting is that former enemies who commit war crimes are 'let off' when they later ally with the 'good guys', which is representative (although unintentionally) of The Reverse Course that the US followed in Japan after the start of the Cold War.
Also, the 'hero' Char (an adult male) has several err, romantic relationships with very underage girls. What message is that sending out?

Yamato, well, it's a nonstop joke of Japanese nationalism. Of course, the only thing that can save mankind is a refloated WWII battleship turned spaceship named after the prehistoric Japanese state!

Remember, it was a contemporary of the original Star Trek, which featured an international crew on a mission of peace, whereas Yamato features a Japanese crew on a mission of war. This most likely reflects Vietnam War era Japanese society chaffing at the constraints placed on it by the 'peace constitution' that we gave them after they lost the war, and the perceived emasculation of national pride. Whereas Star Trek more accurately reflects the 1960's brotherhood of man peace and love movement as a reaction to US involvement in Vietnam.

(Just to head off any rebuttals at the pass, the japanese occupation of China killed about the same number of people as Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Every month. For almost 14 years. So yeah, they deserved 'emasculation'.).

 

[Big J]

@Blackadder, Japan is ranked 110th for gender equality, so I believe my wife when she tells me EVERYTHING is sexist about Japan. There are strictly Islamic states that rank better.
Look at CNN today. There's a story about a pop idol apologizing for being assaulted by two men, who were given her address by her colleague for that purpose. No arrests.

Gundam essentially depicts an Earth v's space colonies struggle that is an analogy for western colonialism. There are good and bad individuals on both sides, and both sides commit war crimes. This is a common theme amongst Japanese war crime deniers; 'everyone did it anyway'.
Worth noting is that former enemies who commit war crimes are 'let off' when they later ally with the 'good guys', which is representative (although unintentionally) of The Reverse Course that the US followed in Japan after the start of the Cold War.
Also, the 'hero' Char (an adult male) has several err, romantic relationships with very underage girls. What message is that sending out?

Yamato, well, it's a nonstop joke of Japanese nationalism. Of course, the only thing that can save mankind is a refloated WWII battleship turned spaceship named after the prehistoric Japanese state!

Remember, it was a contemporary of the original Star Trek, which featured an international crew on a mission of peace, whereas Yamato features a Japanese crew on a mission of war. This most likely reflects Vietnam War era Japanese society chaffing at the constraints placed on it by the 'peace constitution' that we gave them after they lost the war, and the perceived emasculation of national pride. Whereas Star Trek more accurately reflects the 1960's brotherhood of man peace and love movement as a reaction to US involvement in Vietnam.

(Just to head off any rebuttals at the pass, the japanese occupation of China killed about the same number of people as Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Every month. For almost 14 years. So yeah, they deserved 'emasculation'.).

 

[Big J]

Whoops, double post. Sorry.

@Seb Lucas, thanks for the link! Don't like the denim, but like their vest! It's the exact correct color as the movie (I have learned since starting this thread that there's a 'is it red/is it orange' debate going on).

You've never seen Top Gun?!? To me, that's like saying 'I've never breathed air'! I can't understand! Lol

 

[navetsea]

nice I like your view Big J, Char is always a hero. I wonder how is your view on Anavel Gato, he is a hero too in my view, gundam antagonists are all heroes and much more a complete characters than their boring protagonists.

 

[Edward]

@Edward to your point about how people don’t remember the 80s and just pick certain highlights or subcultures and it’s not representative of the time. This is key and something that bugs me a lot while watching tv shows or movies that are period pieces. Let’s say it’s a current show that takes place in the 80s. Well a home in that time period would have things in it from the 70s. Maybe even the 60s. Things are passed down, inherited, bought used or thrifted. Of course there should be an overwhelming 80s vibe to it. But a normal average life wasn’t all flock of seagulls haircuts and bright colored vests. Sorry I got on a rant/tangent there ha.

Always the case. I've rolled my eyes at a lot of TV news stories about boomer couples who "have turned their house into a real 1950s home!" - when actually what they've done is turn it into the set of thed diner from Happy Days.

Oh well. How about a reproduction Marty McFly jacket?

https://www.magnoliclothiers.com/mcfly-denim-jacket-by-magnoli-clothiers-casual-p-305.html

I really want the repop of the jacket he wears in the 50s - the red, wool, short-zip-up jacket with the mushroom leather front. Unfortunately, while loads of places do it, they're all thin pleather on the front. I'd love one with a proper goatleather front panel.

I was in my teens and 20's in 1980's but didn't listen to the music and only saw some of the films of that era. I didn't enjoy that decade very much. I have never seen The Breakfast Club or Top Gun nor do I know any '80's songs. I was a blues fan - Muddy Waters, Sonny Terry, Brownie McGhee, John Lee Hooker.

So when people have 1980's parties most of what I see and hear is new to me.

I opted out of mainstream popular culture in the late eighties because I disliked it all. Hated Top Gun especially. by 1989 - when I turned fifteen - I'd dropped out of the metal subculture as well because I foun its inherent misogyny and obsession with being macho tedious. I was a lot of fun back then, obviously.

I like macross!
I remember,shopping for pants with parent and I picked levis silvertab because it was baggy and fashionable, but ignorant kids at school insisted i wore fake copy levis jeans because the tab wasnt red, forced me to carry around the paper pocket flasher inside my pencil case every saturday when we can wear plain clothes to school, kids are horrible.

I've always been very glad that we wore uniform at school, and non-uniform days were few and far between.

 

[Big J]

@navetsea,

(And I apologize for this whole tangeant).

Yes, Char is undoubtedly the hero, and even had his own mini-series as such. For men of a certain age, he is 'the man' and Toyota released a special edition red Yaris with Zion logo to commemorate him a couple of years back. Despite the fact he is a repeat offender with underage girls. In a kids cartoon.

You're right about the antagonist/protagonist hero issue too. Since Mazinger Z (the first to put a pilot in a super robo) in 1972, the genre has become ossified; teenager accidentally falls into Cockpit of solar systems most destructive weapons system in episode 1. By the end of episode 2 he has mastered its use in combat. This leaves the protagonist no story arc for the next 25 or 51 episodes. In steps the antagonist to fill the remaining time with his character development whilst the protagonist lurks in the background sainthood assured. Taken to its extreme in Gundam Seed, where Asran Zara in his Char reminiscent red Gundam dominates the narrative until Shinji reappears at the end to help him right wrongs. It's become trapped in its own formulaic predictability.

This is why Evangelion was such a hit; it subverted the genre. However, if you watch any more of his body of work, it becomes apparent that he in some ways unintentionally did so, since he often promotes fascist and misogynistic themes. I'm thinking Gunbuster (deeply misogynistic) and Shin Godzilla (ra ra military against civilian control).

 

[Doctor Damage]

No surprise then that against a constant drop feed of revisionist ideology from childhood, that the most recent best selling manga/anime Attack on Titan advocates a fascist state to defend from oversized 'others', with central characters named after convicted war criminals.

I watched season 1 of this tv series in the summer and I had a weird feeling watching it (not just from the horrible, pointless bloodiness of the thing). My god you're right, you've put your finger on it. Looking back, I agree it's run through with a ton of fascist tropes including suicidal self-sacrifice, blood-and-soil, betrayal from inside the walls, distant & indifferent elites, hero-worship, mindless obedience, traditional family, etc etc. Are the main characters named after war criminals?? Geezuz, what a mess.

 

[Big J]

@Doctor Damage,
You understand perfectly. You're right.
What's shocking is that with no sense of irony at all, this show is a runaway hit spawning everything from tie-ins with appliance sales to kids lunch boxes. Being proud of liking fascism is kinda strange to me.

 

[Big J]

In the original manga, some of them had the actual faces of war criminals too.

 

[handymike]

I never would have thought this about Macross...all if it went way over my head. thanks Big J, but I hope there aren't these themes in Speed Racer or Kimba or Battle of the Planets.

 

[Big J]

Nah, you're safe. Kimba and Speed Racer can be taken straight up.
Battle of the Planets however is a totally re-edited, rescripted, and inferior mash up of the original Japanese version called Gatchaman, which is much bloodier and darker. It's also missing the abominable 7zark7 monologues that work around the plot holes such chopping induced.

@Edward, I remember Bowie and Numan going through 40's retro in the 80's. Numan had his cyber-noir thing going on (can't remember the album, Music for Chameleons) and Bowie did The Hunger which is very 80's noir.

 

[Blackadder]

@navetsea,

(And I apologize for this whole tangeant).

Yes, Char is undoubtedly the hero, and even had his own mini-series as such. For men of a certain age, he is 'the man' and Toyota released a special edition red Yaris with Zion logo to commemorate him a couple of years back. Despite the fact he is a repeat offender with underage girls. In a kids cartoon.

Well, given that the Gundam "series" is created by different people at different time, I doubt they had that in mind when they effectively killed Char at the end of 0079. Those characters (Char and Amuro) to me were created as tragic hero at the time but owing to public demand, they have to be re-casted in subsequent Gundam. Char is now more a crazy old man especially in the Char's Counterattack film. I think the new ones are for kids and I tend to not read too much into those. Those dual core Gundams that overclocks LMAO.
And all along, I thought Yamato was a Green Peace campaign LOL.
Oh the sexist theme in Macross I had in mind was the Alien's separation of fleets based on sex.

 

[Big J]

Well, don't let the fact that the people behind putting these series together have job titles that are translated into English as 'producer' or 'director' fool you. These are company salarymen working for Sunrise/Bandai who strictly control what they feed kids in order to boost merchandising revenue. These are slick products with a company brand image to maintain. There's not much 'creative freedom' in Japan's notoriously risk averse management by consensus culture. The nail that sticks out gets hammered down.

And if these are the messages that the culture is feeding kids, imagine what adults are getting. There's a reason 'Big T1ts Lawyer' was a long running prime time mainstream show.

And as a father of two daughters, I find it reprehensible that calling your girlfriend/wife/love interest 'Omae' (literally 'you ba***rd') is literally the norm in TV shows.

 

[johnnycanuck]

The 1980's fit is correct. I lived in denim jackets and down vests growing up. If your dad was in construction that's what he wore so that's what you wore. But Martys is an odd one. Usually it was Wranglers, Lee, Marks Work Wear House brand. Waist was fitted and lots of room in the shoulders for movement. I have seen some old timers sporting them again. Maybe look at Wrangler. I recall trying one on at Walmart this last year that was a looser fit.
Good luck.
Johnny
In fact if you really want north american vintage try to find a GWG (great western garment co.) jacket.

 

[CrazySicilian]

http://backtothefuture.wikia.com/wiki/Marty_McFly's_jean_jacket
http://backtothefuture.wikia.com/wiki/Clothing
http://backtothefuture.wikia.com/wiki/Down_vest

 

[johnnycanuck]

Having a look thru some regular store here in canada I came across this gem. A spitting image of BTTF2 jacket.
https://www.thebay.com/main/Product...=Calvin+Klein+Jeans&N=302024527&bmUID=mxrHfNh
Johnny

 

[zebedee]

@Big J. You might like Ian Buruma's 'A Japanese Mirror: Heroes and Villains of Japanese Culture'. I came across it while I was doing postgrad work on Japanese film (notably 70s-90s gangster films).

 

[Big J]

@zebedee, great minds!
I read it as an undergrad way back. Explains a lot doesn't it? Buruma knew his stuff.
I really like the old Takakura Ken movies. Very stylish. I learned a lot of bad Japanese from them.
Not so much a fan of Kitano though, but my father in law loves his gangster movies.

 

[zebedee]

Buruma's great. I think I'll be traumatised by 'Gonin ' for years yet. I like all the Nikkatsu noir stuff, too. I'm currently seriously considering Japan for the next 5 years- I just need a vacancy at AISJ or Seisen... Kitano is an odd one; some of his movies I really enjoy, but mainly because of the shifts between - or blurring of - violence and slapstick. Takakura Ken was The Man.

 

[Doctor Damage]