B-17 "Liberty Bell" crashes, burns

[cco23i]

Exactly Tony, pressurizing an aircraft stresses the metal so aircraft that don't pressurize are less likely to have the issues that a pressurized on will. I know that every so often the aircraft are X rayed and such to check for any metal stress. Glad to help.

Scott

 

[SgtRick]

I beleive these birds should be flown. I have been to many airshows and the B17 flying is a wonderful site to behold. We have the "Texas Raider" close to my house. I know that it is very well maintained. I have plans on my Godson and I catching a ride on it in the future.

 

[MikeBravo]

I took my girlfriend to the local plastic modelling expo on the weekend

We saw a model of a B-17 and my girlfriend who knows nothing about flying or warplanes said "What a beautiful plane"

 

[Talbot]

Going up in one and manning a station gave me a whole new perspective on what confronted those that flew and fought for us.

Damn shame. Glad there were no casulaties.

 

[Stearmen]

Gods Wrath

One should remember that just because you lock an airplane in a museum, does not mean it is safe for all eternity. There have been a lot of old planes in museums lost to fire, floods, tornados, and even hurricanes, such as the Weeks museum! As we all know, God hates trailer parks and airports, he almost always takes them out with tornados. Mine as well enjoy them while we can, some day they may be destroyed on the ground!

 

[Jaguar66]

I had just flown on this plane, twice when the Liberty Belle, was in the Bay Area. I met one of the pilots. It was one of my most memorable experiences. Wow. I am glad I flew in her when I did.

[video=youtube;o8Mi9WoQD_4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8Mi9WoQD_4[/video]

 

[jbmilart]

I am sadden that we lost another warbird and glad that the pilots brought her down safely and the passengers and crew was to walk away unharmed. That my friends is great piloting skills. They will no doubt take some of the good parts and make another "Hanger Queen" fly again...I have seen it many times before, and you can bet that the organizations that fly these historical aircraft will take this accident and apply new maintenance standards to all historical airworthy aircraft. I work as a volunteer at the RENO AIR RACES for about 26 years on the ramp as aircraft and crowd security. Believe me there is nothing compared to seeing and hearing, 8 screaming WWII fighters flying at 495 m.p.h. at 60 feet feet off the deck about a hundred yards from you! The vision and sounds makes your hair stand on end! In the years I have been at the RENO AIR RACES I have seen my share of crashes...sometimes right in front of me. I know a lot of the pilots and have lost some friends too...but when something happens, either tragic or not... the crews and pilots always pull together. I remember back in...I believe 1998 "Miss America" a P-51D mustang, bellied in during time trials...really destroyed the bottom of the aircraft, wings bent, engine gone...really not much left... but when I talked to the owner and crew chief they said it would be up and flying in about a year! Well, it took about 2 years but they had it back flying better than ever. So all is not lost...there will be another B-17 flying with parts from the old "Liberty Belle", maybe not right away, but it will happen.

 

[Bingo]

I certainly hope so. It's one thing to go look at them in a museum, quite another to see and hear them flying.

 

[MisterCairo]

I certainly hope so. It's one thing to go look at them in a museum, quite another to see and hear them flying.

As cool as it is to see a jet scream by at low altitude, there is nothing that compares to the rumble, the vibrations to your very core, of a massive prop-driven multi-engined plane overhead. No sonic boom can compare to that sensation. Fly on.....

 

[TraditionalFrog]

This is indeed a sad loss. I had the honor of seeing this fine lady a few years ago when she was visiting Mt. Comfort Airport near Indianapolis. It brings to mind my late grandfather who was an USAAF armorer in WWII and worked on these mighty birds! The Liberty Foundation was touring Liberty Belle along with a P-40. Liberty Belle was scheduled to visit Indy through this weekend! I'm not sure what if anything will be salvaged from her, but I do know Don Brooks (Liberty Foundation) has another B-17 that can be restored. Definitely brings home the meaning of "Comin' in on a Wing and a Prayer"!

 

[DocMustang]

Thanks for that, Scott. Isn't it also so that the cabins in those WWII-era military aircraft are, for the largest part, not pressurized, unlike modern jet aircraft, which are? My understanding (such as it is) is that all that expansion and contraction a pressurized-cabin modern jet aircraft endures takes a toll. Witness that couple of incidents of older Boeing 737s suddenly becoming open-air models.

It is also the sheer number of hours that comercial airliners fly. In flight metal airframes vibrate and experience significant stress through ordinary flight maneuvers. If you have ever bent a piece of sheet metal or a piece of wire back and forth to break it you will note that the metal heats up then cracks. That is how airframes get damaged and is the reason for the xrays searching for microscopic cracks forming at the major stress points.

It appears in this case that this was an engine fire. That is a whole different kettle of fish. There are multiple points of failure in aircraft engines, anywhere you have significant heat, fuel and an abundant supply of O2 you can have a fire. Most multi engine aircraft have fire suppression levers which physically cut the fuel lines to the engine. B-17s actually had a CO2 fire suppression system installed. This system needed to be employed early in an engine fire's development to be effective as the volume of CO2 was limited due to weight restrictions. More modern aircraft have halon systems which are more effective for the same weight. These systems came into use in the late 1940's I suppose it is possible to retrofit a halon system into one of these birds. Not sure if it has ever been done.

Just like in the film Memphis Belle it is possible to put out a fire by going into a steep dive in an attempt to dissapate the heat and fuel of the fire. This works well when the aircraft has enough altitude to trade for speed. It does not work very well when you don't. It will be interesting to find out what efforts were made by the crew to put out the fire.

 

[kpreed]

Liberty Belle R.I.P.

The "Liberty Belle" my Service Dog and I on the Belles visit to Colorado.
It will be sadly missed by me.

 

[ButteMT61]

Here's a great link I just found:
http://www.life.com/hdgallery/26102/wwii-allied-bombers-and-crews#index/0

 

[filfoster]

Nothing to add to this thread except condolences and thanks all aboard lived. How many of these are still flying? Damn few. One comes to Cincinnati each summer and offers rides. Now one less.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Some comments from the Liberty Belle website:

Statement from Liberty Foundation Chief Pilot:
June 14, 2011 - First, let me start off by sincerely thanking everyone for the outpouring of support that we are receiving. I am sorry that I have not yet had the opportunity to return the many phone calls, text or e-mails that I am receiving offering to help. Again, thank you for all of the kind words that we are receiving and for incredible offers to help emotionally, financially and/or with the recovery process. I hope this statement will help fill in a few details that everyone is wondering about that led to the loss of our “Liberty Belle”.

Yesterday (June 13, 2011) morning, both our P-40 and B-17 were scheduled to fly from Aurora, Illinois to Indianapolis, Indiana. We were in Aurora for the weekend as a part of our scheduled tour. Over the course of the previous week, we completed a scheduled 25-hour inspection on the B-17 which was completed by Saturday. On Saturday, the weather stayed below the required ceiling to give any passenger flights, however the B-17 flew in the morning on a routine training proficiency flight, performing several patterns. Following the flight, other maintenance issues arose that required us to cancel our Sunday flying schedule for repairs. The maintenance performed has not been, in any way, associated to the chain of events that led to Monday’s fateful flight, but is being considered in the preliminary investigation. However, due to the media’s sensational (mis)reporting, there is a large amount of misinformation that continues to lead the news.

Here is what we do know… Flying in the left seat of the B-17 was Capt. John Hess. John has been flying our Liberty Belle since 2005 and one of our most experienced B-17 pilots. He is an active Delta Air Lines Captain with over 14,000 hours of flying experience and flys a variety of vintage WWII aircraft. In the right seat was Bud Sittic. While Bud is new to the Liberty Foundation this year, he is also incredibly experienced with over 14,000 hours of flying time in vintage and hi-performance aircraft. He is a retired Captain with Delta Air Lines.

The news misidentified the P-40 as flying chase during the accident. I was flying our P-40, however I had departed 20 minutes prior to the B-17’s takeoff on the short flight to Indianapolis to setup for the B-17’s arrival. The aircraft flying chase was a T-6 Texan flown by owner Cullen Underwood. Cullen is one of our rated B-17 Captains and an experienced aviator tagging along as a support ship.

The takeoff of both aircraft was uneventful and proceeded on-course southeast. Prior to exiting Aurora’s airport traffic area, the B-17 crew and passengers began investigating an acrid smell and started a turn back to the airport. Almost immediately thereafter, Cullen spotted flames coming from the left wing and reported over the radio that they were on fire.

As all pilots know, there are few emergency situations that are more critical than having an in-flight fire. While an in-flight fire is extremely rare, it can (and sometimes does) indiscriminately affect aircraft of any age or type. In-flight fires have led to the loss of not only aircraft, but often can result in catastrophic loss of life. It requires an immediate action on the flight crew, as the integrity of aircraft structure, systems and critical components are in question.

Directly below the B-17 was a farmer’s field and the decision was made to land immediately. Approximately 1 minute and 40 seconds from the radio report of the fire, the B-17 was down safely on the field. Within that 1:40 time frame, the crew shutdown and feathered the number 2 engine, activated the engine’s fire suppression system, lowered the landing gear and performed an on-speed landing. Bringing the B-17 to a quick stop, the crew and passengers quickly and safely exited the aircraft. Overhead in the T-6, Cullen professionally coordinated and directed the firefighting equipment which was dispatched by Aurora Tower to the landing location.

Unlike the sensational photos that you have all seen of the completely burned B-17 on the news, you will see from photos taken by our crew that our Liberty Belle was undamaged by the forced landing and at the time of landing, the wing fire damage was relatively small. The crew actually unloaded bags, then had the horrible task of watching the aircraft slowly burn while waiting for the fire trucks to arrive. There were high hopes that the fire would be extinguished quickly and the damage would be repairable. Those hopes were diminished as the fire trucks deemed the field too soft to cross due to the area’s recent rainfall. So while standing by our burning B-17 and watching the fire trucks parked at the field’s edge, they sadly watched the wing fire spread to the aircraft’s fuel cells and of course, you all have seen the end result. There is no doubt that had the fire equipment been able to reach our aircraft, the fire would have been quickly extinguished and our Liberty Belle would have been repaired to continue her worthwhile mission.

Let me go on the record by thanking the flight crew for their professionalism. Their actions were nothing short of heroic and their quick thinking, actions and experience led to a “successful” outcome to this serious in-flight emergency. John and Bud (and Cullen) did a remarkable job under extreme circumstances and performed spectacularly. While the leading news stories have repeatedly reported the “crash” of our B-17, fact is they made a successful forced landing and the aircraft was ultimately consumed by fire. Airplanes are replaceable but people are not and while the aircraft’s loss is tragic, it was a successful result.

This leads me into discussing the exceptional safety record of the Boeing B-17 and to hopefully squash the naysayers who preach we should not be flying these types of aircraft. Since we first flew the “Liberty Belle” in December of 2004, we have flown over 20,000 passengers throughout the country and if you count our historic trip to Europe in 2008, worldwide. Of the other touring B-17s, some of which that have been touring for over 20 years, they have safely flown hundreds of thousands of people. The aircraft’s safety record is spectacular and I am certain the overall cause of our issue, which is under investigation, will not tarnish that safety record. In fact, as many of you know, other B-17 have suffered significant damage (although not as bad as ours!), only to be re-built to fly again. From a passenger carrying standpoint, I can think of few aircraft that offer the same level of safety as the 4-engine “Flying Fortress”. As mentioned earlier, in-flight fires are extremely rare and certainly could affect any powered aircraft under certain circumstances. I would put my children today in any of the other touring B-17s to go fly. I suggest to anyone that was thinking of doing so when a B-17 visits your area to do so without giving our loss any thought.

There is wild speculation going on as to the cause of our fire and the affect to other operators. Please let the investigation run its course and report the findings. The NTSB and FAA were quickly on the scene and we are working closely with them to aid in the investigation. As soon as we receive some additional information, we will release it via the website.

The ultimate question remains, where does the Liberty Foundation go from here? After the investigation and recovery, we will determine our options. We are still committed to the restoration and flying of World War II aircraft. Again, we appreciate the support and people offering to help get us back flying.

Please check back for updates. I will close by thanking everyone that made our tour so successful. From the first day of the B-17’s restoration, thank you for all of you who labored to get her flying over the initial restoration years and to everyone that has worked on her out on tour since. Thank you to the crewmembers, tour coordinators and volunteers who gave up weekends and countless hours to support her on the road. And finally, thank you to the passengers, donors and media patrons that flew aboard and everyone who supported our cause. Hopefully, this will not be the end of the story, but a new beginning.

Regards,
Ray Fowler
The Liberty Foundation, Chief Pilot

 

[ButteMT61]

Thanks Bruce. They have a Facebook page as well:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Liberty-Foundation/372963016719

 

[The Lonely Navigator]

This is very sad

I'm just glad no one was hurt.

 

[Fly Boy]

Such a terrible shame. And on a purely selfish note, one less opportunity for me to one day fly in a B-17. Thank goodness nobody got hurt, just goes to show how tough those old birds are/were.

 

[StraightEight]

Another war veteran slips through the hour glass. At least she made it home first.