Awesome Luftwaffe jacket. If only I had the doe for it!

[Metatron]

Beautiful Luftwaffe issued jacket. In my size too!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....612553164&category=4729&_trksid=p5197.c0.m619

Some people like irvins, but this one is my pet obsession. Much rarer and pricier unfortunately. Avant Garde.

 

[Bix B.]

Nice one! Will go far above my budget, too ...
The father of my former girl friend owns one. Also impossible to get.
Your avatar jacket was patterend after that type? But again, original is brown.
Bix

 

[Metatron]

Yes my jacket is made by Noblehouse. It's a very nice piece, unfortunately I couldn't convince them to make one in brown. Which is strange, cause they also make the trousers of the 'lederkombination' and who other than reenactors would wear that? It's a shame cause their 'Nachtjager' has no competitor in that price range.

Original Fliegerjacken also make one, but it's too much in the 'premium' price area for me. I came across a random cowboy saying on the net: 'Shirts that cost more than a weeks worth of groceries are like horseshoes that cost more than a horse' Probably not a popular saying around these parts. I kid.

The thing about these is that they came in 'cheapo' versions with plastic zips and buttons and no metal parts towards the end of the war, and they also had artificial fur collars. So a manufacturer could in theory also make a cheapo version for us stingy enthusiasts. [huh]

Dunno. I see a small hole in the market there. Or maybe there's no demand, and the real collectors don't mind paying premium.

 

[Deleted member 16736]

My favorite is the picture of the Luftwaffe pilot wearing the band aids and looking demoralized. Nice jacket, though.

 

[Peacoat]

Seller makes the comment that this is an ". . . official Luftwaffe Issued Jacket, not a private purchase type like so many post-war jackets claim to be." I wonder how he knows this? Did I miss something in the pictures of the jacket?

 

[Metatron]

This is a jacket widely issued to pilots late in the war. Some were electrically heated. They came as a set, with leather trousers.

 

[Tony B]

I must admit I have been leching at this for the last few days wishing it was my size.
http://http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Orig-German-Luftwaffe-Flight-Leather-Jacket-WW2-WWII-/320758326524?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aaeafa4fc

The thing about this is that if you described it to me without me having seen I would say it sounded bloody awful but this to me is a thing of beauty.......and I happen to have have a hide which is just about a perfect match for it and a new load of pattern making paper so this is on the to do list for next year, once I get a couple of other projects done.

Regards Tony

 

[Peacoat]

This is a jacket widely issued to pilots late in the war. Some were electrically heated. They came as a set, with leather trousers.

To me it looks like a fairly non-descript leather jacket with a wind flap and a mouton collar. Looks nothing like the Eastman Hartman or the Eastman Luftwaffe. I guess a collector would be able to authenticate it, however. Probably sorta like peacoats: to the uninitiated one looks about the same as the other.

Now the one posted by Tony B, that's the business! It looks like a Luftwaffe flight jacket should look. It is almost a perfect replica of my Eastman Luftwaffe. The collar is a bit more pointed on the posted picture and the lining is red instead of blue, but other than that, it is the same jacket--the original being a bit older than my Eastman, of course. If it were a 44 insteaed of a 40, I would bid on it.

 

[Metatron]

Peacoat, the Eastman Hartmann (as i'm sure you know) is based on the civilian cycling jackets bought by Luftwaffe pilots.
I don't know what a Luftwaffe jacket should look like in your opinion, but the one I posted is what a Luftwaffe jacket does look like.

I think there's a bit of confusion here: That the Luftwaffe pilots wore exclusively privately purchased leather jackets is a myth.
Early on the Luftwaffe didn't issue a light leather jacket, true, but late in the war it did, and the one I posted is the most common design used. If you look at photos from 1944/1945 (small sample above) almost everyone in the Luftwaffe fighter force had one.

It's as unmistakeably an original as an original A2 or an Irvin. The giveaways are the velour, artificial fur collar (not mouton) the single chest pocket, the zipped sleeves and the inner tightening cord, which is in the same position as the false belt on a halfbelt.

Posts always go rather off topic when I start discussing the issued jacket, because of the above misunderstanding. Just to put it into perspective, it is the equivalent of someone posting about motorcycle jackets in a thread about Irvins.

Not ranting, just observing.

Perhaps I should make a separate thread about Luftwaffe issued jackets, to clear things up for the member's benefit.

 

[Bix B.]

Interesting, here we see the same jacket type in brighter and darker variations:

The ebay jacket mentioned by Tonys B is surely beautiful. I wonder if some sellers put on some civil jackets the label "Luftwaffe", and within seconds the jacket is worth more?

 

[Peacoat]

Metatron: So, now I am confused. I understand what you are saying about the issue Luftwaffe flight jacket being issued later in the war. But what about the ones before that, such as the jackets the two Eastmans are copied after? Were they all private purchase, and if so, how did all of them look so much alike? As an example, see the jacket in the link posted by Tony B. It is a dead ringer for the Eastman Luftwaffe I have. And I have seen a bunch more like that, as well as the Hartman variant. All very much what I think of as Luftwaffe flight jackets. Yes, I know they were patterned after the cycling jackets of the time, but some company(ies?) did a good job of standardizing the form early in the war. Too bad the Luftwaffe didn't copy that design!

Not arguing the point, because I don't have a point to argue, but I would like to learn more about these jackets. Surprised there hasn't been more written about it on the Forum. And yes, I think it would be a good idea to start a new thread giving the history of the civilian cycling jackets and how the Luftwaffe decided to develop a new design and make that the official Luftwaffe issued flight jacket. I would be interested in knowing why they took a design that was so widely accepted, discarded that design and came up with a different jacket. You may not know all of that information, but if you do, it would be a fascinating subject.

 

[Metatron]

@Bix B, it looks like they came in grainy brown, soft, smooth brown, smooth gray (which seems to have some kind of artificial glazed treatment?) and possibly black leather. You can see a couple of different versions here:
http://www.luftwaffe-militaria.com/

@Peacoat, I understand your confusion, and I think that in many ways, Eastman's marketing is 'to blame'

The thing about the 'Eastman' type jacket, is that if it was issued, it would have been an independent initiative of a unit, as far as I can tell, because even though the style seemed to be uniform, you might notice from photos that no two were really identical, unless a couple of pilots got them from the same source.

As I see it, it was a generic, popular style of the time, much like the military inspired bombers were in the US in the late 40s and 50s.
I suppose, if the USAF had had a comparable policy, they would have said something along the lines of 'pilots are authorized to wear privately purchased black or brown bomber type jackets from Sears' or similar. Do you catch my drift?

It also looks like the Luftwaffe was pretty lenient when it came to uniform, as you can see by these guys wearing B-3s and A2s.

The issued number might have been an attempt at standardization. You can see both privately purchased and issued numbers in use, here:

I can recommend this book which is clearly the best on the subject:
http://www.amazon.com/Luftwaffe-vs-...2345/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1316299326&sr=8-1

Since you are interested, I will do some research and start a separate thread on this subject. Most of it has been covered before in this forum, but the info is all over the place, so I'll try to provide a nice, clean summary. It's a fairly esoteric subject so it's always good to have people to share this stuff with.

 

[Peacoat]

Thanks for the heads up on the book; I just ordered it.

Will be looking for the thread. Great idea!

 

[Stearmen]

Cycle Jacket

I agree with Peacoat, it is a fascinating subject. I am still confused on the term Cycling jacket, are they bicycle jackets or motorcycle jackets? I always thought the zipper with no wind flap would not make for a very good motorcycle jacket. Any light shined on the subject would be appreciated!

 

[Tony B]

The jackets like the one I posted are what most people know as luftwaffe jackets , they aren't they were private purchase items , you know , some young bloke with a few marks burning a hole in his pocket walks past a shop in france or elsewere, sees a nice jacket and manages to justify the purchase to himself and knows he will be allowed to wear it for work and look cool. If you lot dont get that I dont know who will.

The one that metatron posted is one of the proper issue ones http://www.luftwaffe-militaria.com/for-sale/uniforms/luftwaffe-issued-leather-flight-jacket2.htm

As far as issue luftwaffe jacket designations goes if you don't NEED to know don't start trying to get your head around it....it will drive you mad.

As far germans in US/Brit gear goes I read somewhere years ago that if you shot the plane down and you could "obtain" the jacket either from survivors or someone who was past arguing you could wear them as a sort of trophy.

Regards Tony

 

[Stearmen]

I am beginning to think that the term Cycling jacket was added after the war, to give a little more panache to a jacket that may have been nothing more then a working mans jacket purchased by the pilots. Of course, then as now, add a set of wings to the leather jacket and the ladies and collectors will swoon!

 

[Metatron]

Sure, some may well have been working jackets, flight suits were originally just overalls after all. Unfortunately there is rarely any concise documentation on the history of fashion, so it's mostly a matter of looking at photographs and movies and hearing what the veterans have to say.

Edit: By the way, does anyone remember the name of a French movie featuring a factory worker with such a jacket?

 

[Metatron]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/330612553164?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

This is how much it went for by the way. : 0

 

[Peacoat]

I hope it is worth it. Must be for someone to pay that much for it.

 

[Edward]

Well, I suppose, as with all these things in a free-market economy, it was worth that at this point in time because someone was willing to pay it. Next week, next month, next year.... who knows. It certainly has a real rarity, even as compared to the allied equivalents, especially the Irvin. I'd love a good repro of some of those issue Luftwaffe jackets, but as even those are rare, so too are they expensive.