AVI LTHR launches B-3 Sheepskin Flight Jacket - wow

[Brettafett]

Im not a big sheepskin guy, but this looks pretty good.
Pattern and details based on an original WW2 B3 jacket (contract 43-13616 AF)
https://www.avileather.com/product/b-3-flight-jacket/
599 Euro... Comp to ELC's B-3 at £1349, or Bronson's B-6 on sale at $799, this is a bargain!
As always, if you have any constructive criticism or ideas to make it better, let Morten know, he is always very keen to improve where possible...

 

[John Lever]

Very nice. Is it me or do the cuffs look slightly odd ?

 

[dudewuttheheck]

Would also be nice if the website was transparent enough to list where the jackets are made.

 

[Aloysius]

Two years behind Five Star offering original contract B-3s and charging almost double the price so people can delude themselves into thinking they’re buying a Scandinavian jacket.

 

[Aloysius]

Very nice. Is it me or do the cuffs look slightly odd ?

Look a bit like hoodie cuffs with their taper.

 

[Observe]

Would also be nice if the website was transparent enough to list where the jackets are made.

You have to dig but it does say they're made in Pakistan.

 

[Brettafett]

Not very 'friendly' and rather ignorant comments gents.
Perhaps some constructive criticism would be more welcome if anything... Why the bad taste?

Im not affiliated with AVI, although I have and still have their A-2, G-1 and M-422as, along with a number of other high end repros and originals to compare.

Not to take anything away from Shawn, who has some great jackets in his line-up, arguably a few better than others, but lets clear some things up for the peanut gallery (I despise ignorants and bullies)...

AVI is a Danish company, with Danish ethics, Danish laws and a production team in Pakistan.
They've clearly developed a passion for vintage jackets.

AVI was around well before 5* came into the picture and never tried to 'hide' anything.
They were new to the genre and setting up their brand, and took a lot of heat from Ken (Aero) and some others back in the day about where the jackets were made etc, but as AVI had no presence on the forums, was not aware, and thus unable to speak for themselves.
Did anyone email them and ask? No.
Did Ken contact AVI. No. (And Aero had in fact outsourced some budget A-2s to be made in Paks previously. Did they disclose they were made in Paks??? I doubt it, but I cant recall that far back. I'd like to know)
But lots was bleated about on the forum. Shameful!

I doubt when AVI launched their first Bronco A-2, that they considered where it had been made would be a big deal. Likely focusing on patterns, materials, making it as best they could and selling it... I have never asked myself, perhaps someone would like to and let us know.
An now that every leather shop in Pakistan makes 'original maker' WW2 flight jackets, no one bats an eye-lid.
Btw... Did anyone think where this idea came from to start making flight jackets in Paks??? Of course not.

I did eventually email AVI and inform them of these 'issues' and 'accusations. No doubt horrified... They did go and change their website and the info presented therein. They have since added tags inside the jackets also.

They were the first to actually procure originals (a Bronco A-2, Perry A-2, 55J14 G-1 and a GF M-422A, which they still have along with a growing collection of originals), copy patterns and details and send them over to their team in Pakistan to produce. They too have come a long way of the last years, updating and improving.

5*'s Bronco, their first repro, was a copy of AVI's first iteration of their A-2. As was their 55J14 G-1.
So 5*s Bronco and 55J14 are a copy of AVIs V1 copy of their original Bronco & 55J14 (funny how no one was bothered by that)...
Back in the day, it seems all Pakistan then started making Broncos and G-1s (calling them M-422as also).

Since then, Shawn has been sent originals and other repros to copy, and in many cases done a great job and now has a decent line-up of his own. And everyones a fan.
As far as Im aware, Shawn's owns one Dubow original (arguably his best repro). I stand to be corrected.

5*s B-3s are mostly unavailable and the quoted price is misleading... Click on the jackets and those that are ACTUALLY available are well over £500 (£519 to £535...) Unless you are looking elsewhere or Shawn has not updated his site.
I wonder how much they will be when actually available again.

So AVI's price of around £526 (599 Euro) is the same (if not a touch CHEAPER) than 5*s unavailable B-3s.

Im sure its a terrible thing that AVI was so late in launching their B-3, which I know was planned before lockdown, because I had asked about forthcoming releases and this is stated in a review I did of one of their jackets on here a while back.

So please.
Show some respect to a company who started out from nowhere, with little advice, direction or support, who continually invests and develops affordable and relatively decent original maker flight jackets (and some civilian types).
AVI has always answered emails, always been open to suggestions and constructive criticism.

I wonder why there are always some who are very quick to throw 'jabs' or 'comments', where some constructive criticism (if you actually have some insight or experience worth sharing) or positive feedback, would be greatly accepted and often acted on.

If you prefer a particular maker's jackets, thats your call, but don't be so shallow and ignorant as to critique another until you know the facts or have at least owned some of their jackets.

Credit where credit due. AVI's jackets are worth every penny and big Bang for the buck.
Original maker jackets, copied directly from originals in their collection.
Are AVI's jackets perfect? No. But then neither are 5*s. And yet both these are generally better than other more expensive makers.
Theres always room to improve.
Even John (GW) and ELC are constantly improving, updating and making their jackets better.

Not everyone can afford a GW, ELC, BK or a high end maker's jacket.
Some want a jacket they can patch or paint without worry of damaging it.
Some are new to the hobby and unsure of sizing and preference, so being able to find something decent at a reasonable price is a great entry.
For any number of reasons, we need makers like AVI and 5*, they fill a very necessary niche in this flight jacket market.

They should be encouraged and supported where possible, and if you do actually have some worthwhile experience with originals, or advice on detailing or simply suggestions, why not pay it forward, get in touch directly and help them improve.

Be better.

 

[MrProper]

I find the price quite good, at least for those who live in the EU. Because just the Shearling are definitely not the cheapest at 5*. I had always gotten good prices, but with DHL handling fee, customs and VAT then comes a lot in addition. So I come in the direction of the 599 (if I have to pay the regular price at 5*).
That Pakistan can make good jackets is certainly out of the question. They are not designers, but if they get good patterns and specifications, the result is certainly good.
Since I can't wear anything off the rack, it's out of the question for me, but it probably is for someone else.

 

[Aloysius]

So much in this post so I’ll just address two points.

(And Aero had in fact outsourced some budget A-2s to be made in Paks previously. Did they disclose they were made in Paks??? I doubt it, but I cant recall that far back. I'd like to know)

The Indian made Aero budget line was clearly labeled so, yes. It was discontinued because the contracted factory dropped quality in later batches.

Btw... Did anyone think where this idea came from to start making flight jackets in Paks??? Of course not.

Leather goods have been made in that region forever. AVI wasn’t the first to do it, even among western brands. Taylor’s Leatherwear, for instance, has been making issued police and flight jackets there for decades.

 

[Brettafett]

Yes, thats right, I recall the Indian budget line.
I definitely recall there was a conversation around having jackets made in Paks also, or some enquiries that didn't pan out.

Yes, jackets of all kinds have been made in Paks forever, but not original maker flight jackets, copied off original WW2 jackets. AVI was the FIRST to do this.
Theres a massive difference between generic bomber/ flight jackets, and those patterned and detailed off originals.
Calling a Bronco, a Bronco, does not a Bronco make.
Not to mention extra expense (authentic as possible hardware and components, within budget and if available), development and quality control.

EDIT: Thought worth mentioning that US Wings had a budget line produced in Paks back in the day, not sure if this is still the case.
However, US Wings jackets are 'bomber' type jackets, well made and robust Im sure. But, they are NOT copied or detailed off any original WW2 jacket/ contract. They are not original maker jackets, they are modernised interpretations of the type.

 

[Brettafett]

I find the price quite good, at least for those who live in the EU. Because just the Shearling are definitely not the cheapest at 5*. I had always gotten good prices, but with DHL handling fee, customs and VAT then comes a lot in addition. So I come in the direction of the 599 (if I have to pay the regular price at 5*).
That Pakistan can make good jackets is certainly out of the question. They are not designers, but if they get good patterns and specifications, the result is certainly good.
Since I can't wear anything off the rack, it's out of the question for me, but it probably is for someone else.

If you need length, Im sure AVI can accommodate. All my jackets have an inch added to lengths.

 

[Aloysius]

Yes, thats right, I recall the Indian budget line.

Yes, but the issue wasn't that. The issue was you deciding to imply Aero was mislabelling these…

I definitely recall there was a conversation around having jackets made in Paks also, or some enquiries that didn't pan out.

Aero bought a Five Star jacket about three or four years ago blind from eBay, determined that the quality was good but decided it didn't make much sense to sell that with VAT and markup as a budget option, since people could just order direct.

Yes, jackets of all kinds have been made in Paks forever, but not original maker flight jackets, copied off original WW2 jackets. AVI was the FIRST to do this.

I'm not sure this is true. Even within the 'repro enthusiast' space, AVI and Headwind appeared at about the same time, but the 'repro enthusiast' space is relatively tiny.

There are bigger brands that do genuine repro products in Asia (not just Japan), like some of the Ralph Lauren lines. I have some really beautifully chain-stitched RRL stuff that was made in Southeast Asia. I wouldn't be surprised if they made repro leathers in Pakistan as well.

I have no grudge against AVI. (Why would I?) Five Star has their issues too of course, as any number of jackets here amply demonstrates.

 

[dudewuttheheck]

You have to dig but it does say they're made in Pakistan.

They make it extremely difficult to find and try to hide it behind talking about being designed in Denmark. I find thst very dishonest and manipulative. You can disagree, but to me, that's a problem. Other brands outsource production and I don't mind it nearly as much when the brand is far more up front about it. I think it's fair for me to have that opinion.

@Brettafett you seem to be implying that some of the negative comments are due to this forum's allegiance to 5 Star. I can't speak for everyone else, but I'm certainly not a 5 Star fan so that has nothing to do with my dig at them.

 

[Observe]

They make it extremely difficult to find and try to hide it behind talking about being designed in Denmark. I find thst very dishonest and manipulative.

Nah I agree, sketchy brand for sure.

 

[cbez]

Neither the product page nor About Us mention Pakistan once. They talk around it. If your entire marketing is designed around obscuring a fact from your customers it doesn't inspire confidence.

I pretty much only buy used but that's my take.

 

[MrProper]

The information may not be immediately obvious, but a secret is not made of it. That the jackets are not produced in Denmark at this price should be clear.
I can not care, I'm currently addicted to Aero lol