AVI LTHR BRONCO A-2 Jacket Review & Pics

[nkang]

Plenty of folks (myself included) enjoy garments sold by Pike Bros... I'm not going to go through and sell every piece just because they're made in Turkey...

I consider myself lucky that the Pike Bros I own are all made in Portugal

Will definitely keep my AVI G1 because it's a quality jacket for the price, but I think it will be positive for both AVI and the customers in the long run if AVI could consider being more transparent with its jackets' provenance. We won't get poisoned and labors in the developing world will get better pay.

 

[EmergencyIan]

Frankly, though I believe the pattern seems true (fit wise), when I see the photos of the jackets, it seem to me that you get what you pay for. They look alright, but not great. I wouldn’t think they would or should cost more than just a few hundred dollars, USD.

On top of that, the questions of provenance are concerning, to me, from the standpoint of safety for the consumer and the persons making these jackets. Are they and the jacket owners (and everyone in between) being exposed to toxic fumes? Could be. No one is speaking to this. Also, since the jackets are so inexpensive but decent quality, are the people making them being paid a fair wage? We don’t know that either.

Given these facts or lack there of, I don’t really see the upside for anyone to purchase one of AVI’s garments, at this point in time.

- Ian

 

[Harris HTM]

I'm not going to go through and sell every piece just because they're made in Turkey...

Absolutely not! I also own and enjoy a couple of their articles. The main difference is that the country of origin is clearly stated on both the pike bros website and the garment itself. And having a couple of friends from Turkey I know that child labour is punishable there.

 

[Technonut]

Also, if the average person were to go through their home, and dispose of goods made from countries with questionable labor practices, chances are, that person's home (mine included) would look fairly empty afterwards...

Just food for thought.... Buy what you like, and can afford. We are in a worldwide Global marketplace.. Those 'slave-wages' could very well be the only game in town for citizens of whichever country to eat and make a living, no matter how meager.

As a CONSUMER who's financial position is not what it was 10 years ago, I am now forced to think with my wallet. I do not have the luxury of boycotting businesses, or concerning myself where the company I'm dealing with is sourcing their goods. Frankly, I resent anyone attempting to shame me (or anyone else) for utilizing an affordable avenue to enjoy my penchant for new vintage-style clothing....

EDIT: Last time I checked, The Fedora Lounge is a forum for folks who are into the lifestyle, accessories, and clothing of "The Greatest Generation"... NOT an exclusive advertising vehicle for upper-tier garment makers, or a fashion show for those expensive goods.. (but what do I know, I've only been a member here since 2006 )........

 

[Flightengineer]

The level of wages in different countries is different for the same work.
That is why many manufacturers choose countries where it is possible to make the product cheaper, this is the realities of the modern economy.
The fact that AVI did not indicate the country of manufacturing on the label does not automatically mean that AVI jackets are made with violations of the law (using eg child labor) or environmentally unsafe.
I'm also not sure about the toxic fumes (my jacket smells like a normal leather jacket)

 

[Harris HTM]

The level of wages in different countries is different for the same work.
That is why many manufacturers choose countries where it is possible to make the product cheaper, this is the realities of the modern economy.
The fact that AVI did not indicate the country of manufacturing on the label does not automatically mean that AVI jackets are made with violations of the law (using eg child labor) or environmentally unsafe.
I'm also not sure about the toxic fumes (my jacket smells like a normal leather jacket)

You are absolutely right. That's why I'd like to know more before I place an order.

 

[Flightengineer]

You are absolutely right. That's why I'd like to know more before I place an order.

You can ask the question directly to Morten, then share it with us. It will be interesting to know.

Forgive me my English language, if I do not express it accurately enough.

However, what will change if, for example, the AVI website indicate that "production is located in Bangladesh"? (eg)
Will not you buy?
Will you require detailed photos of production capacity, audit of staff salaries, a certificate that "child labor is not used"?
These are all words, and it seems to me more a question of trust to the seller.
You can write on your website that we have a modern manufacturing that conforms to all norms of ecology and human morality...or not write it. Hard to check it , if not impossible in the case of production not in Europe, where you can (if you are allowed) to visit the production in person and shake hands with the machinist (if possible).

Everything is ultimately determined by the price / quality issue.

Any way ....I believe that the country of production MUST BE honestly indicated.

 

[Flightengineer]

Also, if the average person were to go through their home, and dispose of goods made from countries with questionable labor practices, chances are, that person's home (mine included) would look fairly empty afterwards...

Just food for thought.... Buy what you like, and can afford. We are in a worldwide Global marketplace.. Those 'slave-wages' could very well be the only game in town for citizens of whichever country to eat and make a living, no matter how meager.

As a CONSUMER who's financial position is not what it was 10 years ago, I am now forced to think with my wallet. I do not have the luxury of boycotting businesses, or concerning myself where the company I'm dealing with is sourcing their goods. Frankly, I resent anyone attempting to shame me (or anyone else) for utilizing an affordable avenue to enjoy my penchant for new vintage-style clothing....

EDIT: Last time I checked, The Fedora Lounge is a forum for folks who are into the lifestyle, accessories, and clothing of "The Greatest Generation"... NOT an exclusive advertising vehicle for upper-tier garment makers, or a fashion show for those expensive goods.. (but what do I know, I've only been a member here since 2006 )........

If the forum interface could - I would put "like" several times

 

[nick123]

Also, if the average person were to go through their home, and dispose of goods made from countries with questionable labor practices, chances are, that person's home (mine included) would look fairly empty afterwards...

Just food for thought.... Buy what you like, and can afford. We are in a worldwide Global marketplace.. Those 'slave-wages' could very well be the only game in town for citizens of whichever country to eat and make a living, no matter how meager.

As a CONSUMER who's financial position is not what it was 10 years ago, I am now forced to think with my wallet. I do not have the luxury of boycotting businesses, or concerning myself where the company I'm dealing with is sourcing their goods. Frankly, I resent anyone attempting to shame me (or anyone else) for utilizing an affordable avenue to enjoy my penchant for new vintage-style clothing....

EDIT: Last time I checked, The Fedora Lounge is a forum for folks who are into the lifestyle, accessories, and clothing of "The Greatest Generation"... NOT an exclusive advertising vehicle for upper-tier garment makers, or a fashion show for those expensive goods.. (but what do I know, I've only been a member here since 2006 )........

Amen. I was fortunate enough to be spoiled silly by my parents growing up. A birthday present was an expensive leather jacket. I’m 28 now. Finally learning to be an adult (albeit very late). Now jackets are so far below the importance line. Rent and food (much like those making our jackets across the world) are priorities. Still very much addicted to them though. I think a jacket or two helps us to de-stress. They’re good things to have, but definitely luxury items. I’ve always been rather (wrongly) ethnocentric by nature when it comes to desiring jackets from US/UK/Japan, but finding a very nice jacket (as these seem to be) on a budget price is still a very welcome thing.

 

[Technonut]

As someone who was financially solvent for many years, only to become undone in later years by a particularly nasty divorce, I have come to appreciate the recent influx of very good quality vintage-styled garments produced in China, etc... I mean, when one is on a tight budget, and saving for months hoping to purchase an expensive jacket for instance.... Only to inevitably have something more important come up right before said purchase (if I could only count the times.. ). This places you right back on square one, and ultimately becomes a disappointing fools' errand after awhile.

The quality of these recent jackets are VERY good for the price, and fit nicely into my chosen manner of dress. Just look at these: (many more styles available as well)

$221.00 USD Shipped To Your Door: (Cowhide)

Or this one for $ 328.26 USD Shipped: (HORSEHIDE)

I personally own a similar jacket, and can attest to the very nice quality of hides used (no 'corrected' or pressed grain here ), and quality of construction..

EDIT: I failed to mention that a few of the larger leather jacket manufacturers in China have taken to actually importing hides over from Italy and Japan for their jackets.. The one I have was made from cowhide sourced from Italy, and having owned Italian leather goods / garments in the past, I can say that the appearance, handling, feel, and smell of my jacket is quite similar to the Italian goods. The smell in particular, is the type I would like to bottle as a spray.. Just that rich Italian leather smell... Whodathunk It for a $220.00 USD leather jacket of very good construction / quality??

 

[Seb Lucas]

Also, if the average person were to go through their home, and dispose of goods made from countries with questionable labor practices, chances are, that person's home (mine included) would look fairly empty afterwards...

As a CONSUMER who's financial position is not what it was 10 years ago, I am now forced to think with my wallet. I do not have the luxury of boycotting businesses, or concerning myself where the company I'm dealing with is sourcing their goods. Frankly, I resent anyone attempting to shame me (or anyone else) for utilizing an affordable avenue to enjoy my penchant for new vintage-style clothing....

EDIT: Last time I checked, The Fedora Lounge is a forum for folks who are into the lifestyle, accessories, and clothing of "The Greatest Generation"... NOT an exclusive advertising vehicle for upper-tier garment makers, or a fashion show for those expensive goods.. (but what do I know, I've only been a member here since 2006 )........

You make your points well. I've noticed frequently that people who have certain preferences can be very dogmatic about them and dismissive of another's right to chose what they want. I know I can. I do think it's important to celebrate the more ordinary products. I can afford some of the more ridiculous, over engineered, custom kit I see here but I don't believe it is necessary to spend money to be happy.

All of modern commercialism has indoctrinated us to believe that "you get what you pay for' is some kind of religious mantra. But frankly, I've gotten more wear and enjoyment out of my $20 calfskin thrift shop jacket than I ever got from my custom made, carefully spec'd half-belt. I enjoy my Honda much more than the Jaguar. I enjoy my Dickies work pants much more than my tailored by hand corduroy trousers. Life is too short to take material possessions too seriously.

 

[nkang]

Amen. I was fortunate enough to be spoiled silly by my parents growing up. A birthday present was an expensive leather jacket. I’m 28 now. Finally learning to be an adult (albeit very late). Now jackets are so far below the importance line. Rent and food (much like those making our jackets across the world) are priorities. Still very much addicted to them though. I think a jacket or two helps us to de-stress. They’re good things to have, but definitely luxury items. I’ve always been rather (wrongly) ethnocentric by nature when it comes to desiring jackets from US/UK/Japan, but finding a very nice jacket (as these seem to be) on a budget price is still a very welcome thing.

Good to see someone who's also in his late twenties here

 

[Brettafett]

All very well said above, I 'liked' them all

 

[nkang]

Edit: Great points have made by many people here! I like the constructive communication and debate!

I think it's definitely good that many fellow jacket lovers could have the option to purchase cheap but solid leather jackets sourced from the developing world. I fully support your choice and respect your budgetary concern. I've purchased 3 jackets from AVI and I like what I got. I also don't think labelling "made in Pakistan or Bangladesh" would reduce the attractiveness of these jackets. Chinese labor is getting more expensive, people naturally look to South Asia for more competitive pricing. Heck, a hundred years ago "made in Germany" was equivalent to cheap and copy-cat products not on par with "made in Britain". Things change and it could be a win-win for everyone!

But given it might be sourced from a developing country, concerns about child labor or toxic tanning are also valid since regulation isn't as strict there as in Europe/America. I'd like to know since I wish not to buy jackets that harm workers' health or treat workers unfairly. Workers can have low salaries compared to EU standard but also be treated fairly. So having a discussion about the provenance and raising some awareness could also help the workers involved in producing the jackets. I'm not saying child labor is absolute evil...it's controversial. In some regions children unfortunately need to work to help support a struggling family. I'm also not suggesting that the tannery used by AVI is toxic. We're just speculating and imagining possible scenarios since almost no information is given. Information should be given. Designed in Denmark and made in Bangladesh/Pakistan is perfectly fine for me and, I guess, many people here. Outsourcing helps developing countries to...develop! Again, win-win.

All in all, I think this discussion could pressure AVI to disclose the provenance and to consider the above mentioned points on labor and safety. For example, if child labor is involved, at least they won't be harmed by toxic environment that it hinders their life and productivity later on. Again, I am not saying child labor is involved with AVI here and am just imagining a possible scenario. In the worst case, no information is disclosed, nothing changes and we all keep buying what we like at the price we can afford. In the best case, maybe the price rises 30 bucks but neither the workers nor us need to worry about health or moral issues.

 

[EmergencyIan]

^ Well said.

- Ian

 

[Brettafett]

Guys... Theres been some wild speculation and comments, in this and the other forum, bringing into question ‘best practices and ‘health and safety’…
As I am responsible for creating this thread, I’d like to add the following…

AVI, like some, and unlike some others companies, do not spend their days reading these threads and pouring over the comments... Neither do they have a presence on these forums… so, are likely not aware that people are taking a pick at something, and thus have not responded to defend themselves.
I highly doubt they are 'hiding' anything.

Just because someone has embarked on a venture producing decent quality jackets, 'not in England, Denmark, the US or some other first world country', and has not expressly provided a paragraph about manufacture on their website... Likely an oversight... does NOT automatically mean they are dishonest, opaque or exploiting anyone.... and insinuating or speculating that they 'may be' etc... is not fair to the vendor, who clearly has no presence here and probably does not have much of an interest to get involved in this nonsense anyway....!
(I can imagine a Dane, scratching his head and wondering why anyone would think they were being dishonest or unclear, likely feeling a little embarrassed about it all and making a plan to communicate things more effectively).

It was bound to happen one day, that someone would see the relatively decent quality jackets coming out of say, Pakistan (and you'll find these all over London!) or China or wherever (made by talented artisans, very happy to have a job and proud of their skills) and ask, "what if they we gave them an original WW2 A-2 to copy the pattern and details, sourced some decent repro components, send to them and then make a jacket for us to sell to the world at manageable price". A great idea and a healthy step forward imo. Kudos to AVI!

I will ask again, if you are sceptical about anything, contact the vendor directly and ask them. Post the response here by all means, but don't 'dig' at your competition or stir peoples imaginations... Its bad form.

I have sent AVI an email, (unfortunate in my opinion), asking them to address these 'issues' some of you are having, because they have neglected to anticipate how important having a 'made in' label and a paragraph about 'best practice at source of manufacture' etc... on their website, for those who would love to find a way to explain the low cost of these jackets in comparison to the 'big boys'.

Maybe bringing these things to point will end up being a good thing... If AVI puts a 'made in' tag in future jackets, a 'best code of practice' paragraph on the website, no poisonous chemicals harming any children, organic free-range goat and cotton, no lead or aluminium etc.. etc... Then there will be nothing left to say but, "ok, nice jacket".

I am pretty sure these jackets are made in Pakistan, (who incidentally have a reputation of making decent leather jackets by skilled and proud artisans), so are a zillion other high street products and I'm sure all this is done in a humane way, with no poisonous chemicals or children harmed… not to mention putting the food on many people’s tables.

If you know anything about the Danish, and I do, as I lived there for a while, they re not the people who would likely be involved in any questionable business practices. If anything, the Danes are open-mided, altruistic, intelligent types, who would set up a business in a third world country, go in and train the team in order to help the industry and people there. They would then try and make the best product they can in the best way that they can.

This thread was simply an honest review of an A-2 jacket/s that I received and am very happy with, for the benefit of the folk who are interested in these things.
I stand by my enthusiasm for this product… finally an original maker WW2 A-2 jacket, (maybe not to the perfectionist standards of GW), but pretty darn good all the same… at an affordable price!

I will continue to post pics and reviews of my jackets, and I would respectfully ask for constructive feedback and comments, not speculation and witch-hunts.
Any speculation is not fair to associate with this or any manufacturer. Thank you.

 

[EmergencyIan]

Brett, with all due respect, in what way is speculation unfair in this case? We have no choice but to continue speculating when all inquiries regarding this concern/topic, including your own inquiry, have gone unanswered. There may be nothing or there may be something to all of this. Morten or someone at AVI could clear all of this up, but, to this point, it's silence from their end. I think it's more than reasonable to expect a response. I don't see how any of this is unfair or a "witch hunt."

- Ian

 

[nkang]

I think what Ian brought up is valid, even if it's speculation. I also think Brett gives good replies, despite that some of his arguments are also assumptions.

@Technonut, aside from a few users' comments that might be considered "aggressive", I find most opposing comments, including Ian's, to be moderate and constructive. I think many would respect your freedom to buy what you can afford and what you like, but I also think you can be and can stand being challenged a bit about your possible responsibility as a consumer. "Possible" since we don't have information about the provenance yet. I might have interpreted your comment the wrong way, but there's no need for words like "spokesman", "tree-hugging", or "hell" that leads to personal attacks, right?

But concerning that we're now debating heatedly in a review thread, it might be better to split to a new thread for this rather meaningful discussion?

 

[marmalademan]

FWIW I don't think this is a meaningful discussion. End of the day it's a very simple equation. The maker can choose to declare where his jackets are made or choose not to. These guys choose not to. They have their reasons, and it's a conscious choice made. Buyers can choose to buy a jacket from makers who state where they're made or from makers who do not. Which kind of buyer you are you get to decide. Capitalising that the maker must do this or must do that is plain ridiculous. The maker doesn't owe you anything! Rather he just puts out a product and you either take it or leave it. If you can afford the moral high ground (in selected cases) then good for you and you are free to opt out. But there really isn't any need for crapping on this guy's thread. In my view in a market as niche as this I'm sure that the maker is fully aware of what's been spoken about on here and that he has said nothing is the position. In other words, he is not going to be saying anything because this is the position and no amount of whining from naysayers impersonating potential buyers will make any difference. Just my 2 bob. Personally, I would quite like to try one at some point

 

[EmergencyIan]

I don’t understand why questioning AVI’s jacket making process is offensive. I’m sure that there are potential customers who are on the fence, if only for the reason they want to be sure that the jacket was tanned “safely” as they won’t be exposed to anything toxic if they were to purchase a jacket from AVI. They may not really care about the workers health and/or wages … and that’s ok. To each his own. It may not be my world view, but I’m not in the business of telling people how to think. In saying that, the more information you have to work with the better decisions you can make. Life isn’t easy for anyone and if you can avoid potential problems down the road, all the better.

What is the crime in wanting to know, one way or another, in order to be an informed consumer? AVI may never make clear the process as to how their jackets are produced and that’s their prerogative. That said, it seems as though it would behoove them to do so as they may gain customers, such as nkang, by doing so.


- Ian