auschwitz

[MrBern]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060330/ap_on_re_eu/poland_auschwitz

snip:
WARSAW, Poland - Poland wants to change the official name of the Auschwitz death camp on the U.N.'s world heritage directory to emphasize that it was run by German Nazis, not Poles, an official said Thursday.

 

[Bebop]

You say tomatoes, I say tomatos.

 

[Mr. 'H']

Out of interest, why didn't you capitalize Auschwitz in your header?

Was it:


(a) Bad grammar? :rage:

(b) Indifference? :eusa_doh:

(c) Making a point? [huh]


Just wondering....

 

[Mycroft]

You say tomatoes, I say tomatos.

I am with you, I mean if people start blaming the Poles for it, then we are not educateing them enough, its a good indicator.

 

[MrBern]

Out of interest, why didn't you capitalize Auschwitz in your header?

Was it:


(a) Bad grammar? :rage:

(b) Indifference? :eusa_doh:

(c) Making a point? [huh]


Just wondering....

No real significance, I was more concentrated on spelling it correctly.
Actually, I had been tempted to title the subject: A ROSE BY ANY OTHER NAME.
But thought it was a littl light hearted for such a serious topic & went with the simple name. Its all about the word. I didnt want to get into a bunch of southpark style jokes about concentration camps.
I HAVE been there. Its a serious place & its quite a thing to walk the grounds, see the displays & watch the tourists break down.
I did see one guy make a really snippy remark about the tours & the guides. My girlfriend & I just sort of looked at each other wondering what the sarcasm was about. A guide came over & told us that he was a survivor, hence his funny attitude.

 

[Mr. 'H']

OK

10-4

__________________

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

I've seen some documentaries.

No real significance, I was more concentrated on spelling it correctly.
Actually, I had been tempted to title the subject: A ROSE BY ANY OTHER NAME.
But thought it was a littl light learted for such a serious topic & went with the simple name. Its all about the word. I didnt want to get into a bunch of southpark style jokes about concentration camps.
I HAVE been there. Its a serious place & its quite a thing to walk the grounds, see the displays & watch the tourists break down.
I did see one guy make a really snippy remark about the tours & the guides. My girlfriend & I just sort of looked at each other wondering what the sarcasm was about. A guide came over & told us that he was a survivor, hence is funny attitude.

Actual footage from one of the camps. It was a German camp, and the commanders of the liberating forces made the population of the closest town go there and see it all for themselves.
I'm surprised that the Poles have not exonerated themselves much sooner than this.

 

[MrBern]

I'm surprised that the Poles have not exonerated themselves much sooner than this.

Well, they had the Communists to deal with for about 40 years after the Nazis left. So I guess theyre just now getting down to concerns over political correctness in th world's eye.

 

[Shaul-Ike Cohen]

I've never heard or read anything that looked like someone thought the Poles were responsible, just because the current name doesn't explicitly state Germany.

What's the point? The Poles make good money with Auschwitz tourism, and because of all the posters "Visit Auschwitz in the morning and chill out in a nearly original Jewish caf?© in Cracow in the afternoon" people start to associate it with Poland? Can't imagine.

Anyway, for Poles it is a clear matter that Auschwitz was mainly a camp to detain and kill (Gentile) Polish harmless citizens. (Until some years ago, the legend was slightly different: "brave communist Polish gentiles".)

 

[geo]

I've never heard or read anything that looked like someone thought the Poles were responsible

I have. One major Canadian paper called Auschwitz "a Polish concentration camp". They had to publish an apology, after receiving a letter of complaint from the Polish ambassador.

 

[Andykev]

I have been to Dachau

First, I was a tad bit suprised that a post was made over the "a" in Auschwitz..(SP?).....I as a reader did not take it as any slight.

I have been to Dachau. Outside of Munich, in 1986. It was a beautiful area, not unlike the Napa Valley, in California. You round a beautiful curve in the tree lined road under blue skies, and there it is, hidden in a grove. The place was chilling. Even with the remanants of the camp, save all but one row of barracks, the SS Ofice, towers, and electric fence were all there. Even the ovens. Yep. The SS Office was turned into a museum. There were plenty of photos to chronichle the history and activity of the camp, and PILES of eyglasses, shoes, toys, suitcases, clothing, and gold fillings from teeth...well you know where those came from.

I recommend a tour. It is remarkable, in that yousee old black and white tv or film and it seems like so long ago. It wasn't. It was 60 years ago. In your parents lifetime (in my age group). It DID happen and COULD HAPPEN AGAIN.

Never forget.

 

[PADDY]

Some names transcend things...

Certain names in history have been immortalised for evermore, for being famous or infamous.
Some names go beyond nations, and challenge us all at a much deeper level and remind us that we must make efforts never to allow some things to be repeated.
Sadly, even recently, names like Kosovo and Rwanda send a chilling reminder to us of what each and every one of us is capable of inflicting upon our common man.
It's too easy to disassociate ourselves from others by labelling them as 'monsters' and 'inhuman.' Sadly the more frightening reality is that these so called monsters are very much 'human.' We all have the capability and free choice to do the most horrendous things and names like Auschwitz; Dachau; Bergen Belsen, Mathausen; Sorbibor, and many, many others, need no explaining to what they represent in terms of human suffering and what humans can do onto fellow human beings.
No amount of changing of names, or deliberating minor grammatical mispellings will change the facts of what made these very ordinary places in Europe, synominous with and representations of the most horrendous period in our history through state sanctioned ethnic cleansing and systematic murder on a scale never seen before or since.

Could this ever happen again. Of course it could. And it's our responsibility to make sure it never does, as humankind is tarnished for allowing it to happen in the first place, irrespective of nationalities. This goes way beyond nationality and strikes deep to the heart of our humanity.

 

[Bebop]

First, I was a tad bit suprised that a post was made over the "a" in Auschwitz..(SP?).....I as a reader did not take it as any slight.

I have been to Dachau. Outside of Munich, in 1986. It was a beautiful area, not unlike the Napa Valley, in California. You round a beautiful curve in the tree lined road under blue skies, and there it is, hidden in a grove. The place was chilling. Even with the remanants of the camp, save all but one row of barracks, the SS Ofice, towers, and electric fence were all there. Even the ovens. Yep. The SS Office was turned into a museum. There were plenty of photos to chronichle the history and activity of the camp, and PILES of eyglasses, shoes, toys, suitcases, clothing, and gold fillings from teeth...well you know where those came from.

I recommend a tour. It is remarkable, in that yousee old black and white tv or film and it seems like so long ago. It wasn't. It was 60 years ago. In your parents lifetime (in my age group). It DID happen and COULD HAPPEN AGAIN.

Never forget.

I have also been to Dachau. The most amazing thing about Dachau to me was the indescribable smell. It lingers in the walls and in the air even after all these years.

 

[nightandthecity]

I recommend a tour. It is remarkable, in that yousee old black and white tv or film and it seems like so long ago. It wasn't. It was 60 years ago. In your parents lifetime (in my age group). It DID happen and COULD HAPPEN AGAIN.

Never forget.

The best film ever made about the Holocaust is Shoah from 1985...it lasts for 9 1/2 hours and uses not even one piece of old archive footage. Every bit of footage is modern. They go the sites, they interview the survivors and the guards - men who could be your father (my generation). And it grips you from start to finish precisely because it is absolutely clear we are in recent times, living people, living memory and not in ancient B&W land.

 

[Shaul-Ike Cohen]

I have. One major Canadian paper called Auschwitz "a Polish concentration camp". They had to publish an apology, after receiving a letter of complaint from the Polish ambassador.

I see what you mean, but that's the point, I think: I can't imagine this paper implied the Poles were responible, rather that it was located in Poland.

But of course, an uninformed reader might misunderstand it.

 

[Viola]

The Poles can't pretend it was not on their soil or that they were 100% innocent.

The Warsaw Ghetto held longer than their country did.

I would never say Poland is responsible for Auschwitz but changing the name and playing the "wasn't us" game is saddening. It happened. Learn from it. Don't whitewash it so you can feel better about your ancestors.

 

[PADDY]

Update: UN name change to WWII death camp agreed.

Just an update for those interested: WARSAW, Poland (Reuters) -- The United Nations has agreed to rename Auschwitz concentration camp to stress that Nazi Germans, not Poles, were responsible for the world's most notorious death camp, Poland's Culture Ministry said on Wednesday.

"Auschwitz Concentration Camp", a U.N. heritage site, will be renamed "the Former Nazi German Concentration Camp of Auschwitz", the ministry of culture said in a statement.