Attorneys and Barristers of the Lounge

[C-dot]

I quite like the sound of that! I had no idea red wine was made from green grapes too.

My grandfather was from Friuli, a province in northern Italy. Friulanos are usually known for their cheese, but they aren't too shabby in the wine department. He was a winemaker, even after he emigrated, and his canteen is still full of his beautiful full body red wines.

He grew lots of red grapes, and a few green ones. As a little girl, he would plunk me barefoot into a huge barrel full of red grapes, and I'd crush them with my tiny feet.

Brings back lots of memories, for sure. I feel good educating myself on wines, as if I'm doing justice to his heritage.

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

I quite like the sound of that! I had no idea red wine was made from green grapes too.

Actually C-dot, it's the reverse with many whites being made from red grapes.

 

[David Conwill]

Welcome to the Observation Bar Association David. What are you drinking?

Thanks. I’m pretty easy. If we’re pouring Riesling, I can drink that. Left to my own devices, I usually order a Manhattan - it’s the standard by which I judge an establishment.

How long have you been in practice , and (because it's become something of interest around here) is law your first career or have you done other things prior to law school?

I received my license May 28 of this year, though I’ve been clerking part-time through law school, so I feel like I’ve been involved for longer. I did other things before law school, but nothing that could be termed a career. The year I took off between undergrad and law school was spent getting married and deciding just what I was going to do with my history degree. I was on the management track at an oil-change place in Kalamazoo for a while, then moved back to my hometown and clerked at a hotel. The original plan was to be a professor of history, but I decided I wanted a more hands-on career. I’m quite passionate about land use and transportation, so I thought I’d have a better chance to impact those things as an attorney.

Tell us about the hat?!

The hat is an Akubra Federation IV (standard). A great hat that’s 99% as nice as anything vintage I’ve encountered, with the added advantage of being readily available in my size (7 1/2). It replaced a Dobbs “Gray Fedora” from Hats in the Belfry that clearly demonstrated why woolies have such a bad reputation. I just bought Doublegun’s brown Fed IV Deluxe and am having Major Moore tweak it for me. That will probably wind up as a Christmas present from my parents - so don’t expect pictures for a while!

And make yourself at home. The company is always sweet, the topics are varied, our membership is drawn from around the globe and our catchcry is "To Collegiality!" Welcome aboard.

Thanks again. I’m glad somebody started this.

-Dave

 

[C-dot]

Actually C-dot, it's the reverse with many whites being made from red grapes.

So it is - See what happens when you read too fast? lol

Congratulations on getting your license this year, David! And I really like your hat

To collegiality!

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

Thanks. I’m pretty easy. If we’re pouring Riesling, I can drink that. Left to my own devices, I usually order a Manhattan - it’s the standard by which I judge an establishment.



I received my license May 28 of this year, though I’ve been clerking part-time through law school, so I feel like I’ve been involved for longer. I did other things before law school, but nothing that could be termed a career. The year I took off between undergrad and law school was spent getting married and deciding just what I was going to do with my history degree. I was on the management track at an oil-change place in Kalamazoo for a while, then moved back to my hometown and clerked at a hotel. The original plan was to be a professor of history, but I decided I wanted a more hands-on career. I’m quite passionate about land use and transportation, so I thought I’d have a better chance to impact those things as an attorney.



The hat is an Akubra Federation IV (standard). A great hat that’s 99% as nice as anything vintage I’ve encountered, with the added advantage of being readily available in my size (7 1/2). It replaced a Dobbs “Gray Fedora” from Hats in the Belfry that clearly demonstrated why woolies have such a bad reputation. I just bought Doublegun’s brown Fed IV Deluxe and am having Major Moore tweak it for me. That will probably wind up as a Christmas present from my parents - so don’t expect pictures for a while!



Thanks again. I’m glad somebody started this.

-Dave

Well David,
Welcome to the front-line of justice. Good to see that you've an Aussie accompanying you in that Akubra. It's certainly a fantastic lid and Hats Direct there in Katoomba are to be congratulated for putting that model together.

Congratulations on your admission. I still consider my own admission, coming as it did later in life, to be one of my life's special moments. I'm not sure the gravity of it is understood by many.

So...transport and land use, eh? I'm guessing you're not all for more superhighways through native forest (or in this country, koala habitat)? Are you working in a firm that handles this kind of work?

 

[C-dot]

I'm anxious to know what the Observation Bar Association thinks of the Michael Bryant case, Ontario's former Attorney General and Cabinet Minister:

"Bryant, 43, is charged with criminal negligence causing death and dangerous operation of a vehicle causing death in connection with the death of a cyclist.

Darcy Allan Sheppard, 33, was killed on August 31.

Officers allege that Bryant and Sheppard had a minor altercation after a possible collision. The cyclist then apparently approached the driver and grabbed onto the vehicle, a Saab convertible with its roof down.

Bryant allegedly began to drive away with the cyclist still clinging to the side of his car.

Sheppard fell off some distance later and may have been run over.

He was rushed to hospital with life-threatening injuries, but succumbed to his wounds."

The entire incident was recorded on security tape. Bryant has not spoken to the media, but has professed his innocence multiple times.

Personally, I don't think he stands a chance. There are eyewitnesses, security footage of the altercation, and a top lawyer hired by the provincial government to prosecute. There is no way Bryant can prove his innocence. There is also speculation that Bryant may receive a lighter sentence because of his government past.

What do you think?

 

[tortswon]

I quite like the sound of that! I had no idea red wine was made from green grapes too.

My grandfather was from Friuli, a province in northern Italy. Friulanos are usually known for their cheese, but they aren't too shabby in the wine department. He was a winemaker, even after he emigrated, and his canteen is still full of his beautiful full body red wines.

He grew lots of red grapes, and a few green ones. As a little girl, he would plunk me barefoot into a huge barrel full of red grapes, and I'd crush them with my tiny feet.

Brings back lots of memories, for sure. I feel good educating myself on wines, as if I'm doing justice to his heritage.

Well, C-Dot, given your origins you should make a B-Line (witty, eh?) to your local LCBO and pick up a bottle of tocai friulano. This is the most famous grape varietal from Friuli and its name comes from that province in Italy.

It is typically pale straw in color. Taste-wise, it is usually described as pear-like. The nose on the wine is often compared to wildflowers. You can also get notes of herbs and citrus in the better ones. The wine is usually ready to drink upon release and is not a candidate for aging. Try it with one of those wonderful goat cheeses from Friuli for a real treat. For Ontario winters the cheese can be baked like a brie. Serve the baked cheese with a sliced peeled pear at room temperature and the tocai friulano lightly chilled. Heavenly!

Drink it young. As we say in the Tortswon house, "That wine needs to be drunk and so do I!" Best, Sam

 

[C-dot]

For Ontario winters the cheese can be baked like a brie. Serve the baked cheese with a sliced peeled pear at room temperature and the tocai friulano lightly chilled. Heavenly!

Drink it young. As we say in the Tortswon house, "That wine needs to be drunk and so do I!" Best, Sam

It does sound heavenly! I'll surprise my soldier with it one cozy winter weekend.

Thanks Tortswon!

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

I'm anxious to know what the Observation Bar Association thinks of the Michael Bryant case, Ontario's former Attorney General and Cabinet Minister:

"Bryant, 43, is charged with criminal negligence causing death and dangerous operation of a vehicle causing death in connection with the death of a cyclist.

Darcy Allan Sheppard, 33, was killed on August 31.

Officers allege that Bryant and Sheppard had a minor altercation after a possible collision. The cyclist then apparently approached the driver and grabbed onto the vehicle, a Saab convertible with its roof down.

Bryant allegedly began to drive away with the cyclist still clinging to the side of his car.

Sheppard fell off some distance later and may have been run over.

He was rushed to hospital with life-threatening injuries, but succumbed to his wounds."

The entire incident was recorded on security tape. Bryant has not spoken to the media, but has professed his innocence multiple times.

Personally, I don't think he stands a chance. There are eyewitnesses, security footage of the altercation, and a top lawyer hired by the provincial government to prosecute. There is no way Bryant can prove his innocence. There is also speculation that Bryant may receive a lighter sentence because of his government past.

What do you think?

I don't know that case at all C-dot but I'll look into it. Two things spring immediately to mind. Firstly that everyone is entitled to the presumption of innocence, and secondly that things come out at trial that never made it into the media prior to trial. So, no matter how grim it looks for your former AG, hold fire on reaching a conclusion till all the evidence is heard.

As for Courts going easy on him because he was a cabinet minister - if the Canadian Courts are anything like ours they tend to hand out harsher sentences to legal officers who breach the law than to anyone else. Mercy is in short supply to those who should know better.

We recently had a very sad case of a former judge who covered up a traffic infringement - then lied about it and then perjured himself at trial about it. So this minor breach became a massive snowball that eventually buried him. He's currently in jail, his many past good works now forgotten - not because of the traffic violation, but because of how he dealt with it. There was no mercy shown to this formerly highly regarded member of the bench. The lesson is, confess early.

 

[tortswon]

As for Courts going easy on him because he was a cabinet minister - if the Canadian Courts are anything like ours they tend to hand out harsher sentences to legal officers who breach the law than to anyone else. Mercy is in short supply to those who should know better.

Same here, Brother Tutt. as a former hearing examiner for the Disciplinary Board, there is not a scintilla of doubt in my mind that if I were caught doing something wrong, I would have had the book thrown at me, And it's a big book!

In another overdue matter, welcome to the profession, David! I hope you find your career in the law as rewarding as I have. After thirty years, I can still say there is absolutely nothing I would rather do than be an attorney as a career. Best, Sam

 

[Spats McGee]

. . . . As for Courts going easy on him because he was a cabinet minister - if the Canadian Courts are anything like ours they tend to hand out harsher sentences to legal officers who breach the law than to anyone else. Mercy is in short supply to those who should know better. . . .

Mr. Tutt & tortswon are right in this. One of the first things I figured out in law school was this: When a case begins with the sentence, "The Defendant is a lawyer," it means the Defendant is in big trouble.

David, congratulations on getting your license and welcome!

 

[C-dot]

The Canadian courts are extremely fair - I don't believe the speculation. Not only is he a lawyer, he was the Attorney General, so he is in big trouble for sure.

My professional opinion: He is innocent until proven guilty, beyond doubt. My personal opinion, based on all the evidence against him: The mightier they are, the harder they fall!

Thanks for the input fellas!

 

[David Conwill]

So...transport and land use, eh? I'm guessing you're not all for more superhighways through native forest (or in this country, koala habitat)? Are you working in a firm that handles this kind of work?

One of my fondest utterances, with apologies to Thoreau, is “We do not ride upon the interstates, they ride upon us.” That and the one about the interstate highway system allowing a person to get from New York to Los Angeles without seeing any part of America. I don’t remember who said that - Hemingway maybe.

I’m slowly working up a theory about a return to a pre-WWI mode of transportation, wherein personal vehicles are used almost exclusively for local transit, and even then are totally optional. It seems to me the great mass of people would be better served by a public-transit oriented model with local light rail feeding into heavy for cross-country trips.

But I think that’s drifting more into the realm of public policy than pure law.

I am not in a firm that handles that for the most part. Two of the four partners are litigators with an emphasis on medical malpractice, as is the other associate. The partner under whom I work is into creditor rights, with a side business in agricultural clients. The fourth partner has a broad mix of stuff, including some land use, mainly beachfront-owners’ rights (beach grooming, wetlands issues, stuff like that). I’ve been told I’m welcome to expand my practice any direction I want, but for right now I feel like I’m hanging on for dear life most of the time.

-Dave

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

One of my fondest utterances, with apologies to Thoreau, is “We do not ride upon the interstates, they ride upon us.” That and the one about the interstate highway system allowing a person to get from New York to Los Angeles without seeing any part of America. I don’t remember who said that - Hemingway maybe.

I’m slowly working up a theory about a return to a pre-WWI mode of transportation, wherein personal vehicles are used almost exclusively for local transit, and even then are totally optional. It seems to me the great mass of people would be better served by a public-transit oriented model with local light rail feeding into heavy for cross-country trips.

But I think that’s drifting more into the realm of public policy than pure law.

I am not in a firm that handles that for the most part. Two of the four partners are litigators with an emphasis on medical malpractice, as is the other associate. The partner under whom I work is into creditor rights, with a side business in agricultural clients. The fourth partner has a broad mix of stuff, including some land use, mainly beachfront-owners’ rights (beach grooming, wetlands issues, stuff like that). I’ve been told I’m welcome to expand my practice any direction I want, but for right now I feel like I’m hanging on for dear life most of the time.

-Dave

G'day David,
Osmosis is the best advice at this point of your career. Just soak it all in and learn, learn, learn.

As for your views on transport being more public policy than pure law - pure law is for academics. No lawyer worth his/her salt has the luxury of viewing law in isolation from life - or public policy. That's the myopia of the legal positivist (you'll have come across them in legal theory somewhere. Hell you were probably taught by one!). Anyone can interpret law. It's the ability to see how it connects with living - and how it can make living better - that marks out the great lawyer.

So keep dreaming the dream - it's how humanity advances.

 

[C-dot]

So keep dreaming the dream - it's how humanity advances.

What a lovely set of words!

 

[David Conwill]

Osmosis is the best advice at this point of your career. Just soak it all in and learn, learn, learn.

I do appreciate the advice, and intellectually, I know it to be true. It can be hard not to get frustrated, however, when surrounded by loads of fairly competent professionals (as well as having regular contact with a fair number of incompetent ones), if you don’t do everything perfectly the first time. I am sure it will smooth out over time, however.

As for your views on transport being more public policy than pure law - pure law is for academics. No lawyer worth his/her salt has the luxury of viewing law in isolation from life - or public policy. That's the myopia of the legal positivist (you'll have come across them in legal theory somewhere. Hell you were probably taught by one!). Anyone can interpret law. It's the ability to see how it connects with living - and how it can make living better - that marks out the great lawyer.

I’ll begin by confessing that I had to look up legal positivsm before responding. I love legal theory, but my own law school was a little light on philosophy, given their stated objective of turning out “practitioners.” I will say that I definitely recognized many of the tenants of legal positivism from my law school days, and I even hear/make arguments along those lines when it suits the needs of the client. However, I’m generally of the belief that it’s fallacy to believe that law can truly disconnect from ethics or morality if it’s long to survive.

So keep dreaming the dream - it's how humanity advances.

That I will. I just didn’t want to be accused of starting a political discussion! I value my lounge membership too much for that.

-Dave

 

[carebear]

C-dot,

Not knowing the details of Canadian law I'd guess that Bryant will tell a story something like this.

After hitting Sheppard with his car for whatever reason he'll give and then driving away, Bryant will claim he was afraid of physical attack from the younger, fitter man (who had already hit the car with his backpack) after he ran after Bryant's car to attack him in return. In fear of attack Bryant continued trying to flee by driving away, Sheppard however maintained his hold on the car (or accidentally became caught up on something) and was regrettably injured due to his attempted assault of Bryant.

Self-defense law, in general, breaks out altercations by who had the last opportunity to avoid a fight. In a perfect world, after being criminally struck by Bryant's car Sheppard should have gotten his license plate number and called the cops. But he (quite understandably) chose instead to go after Bryant himself which was a "new" altercation, one he started without the justification of defending himself. In that second altercation Bryant is the victim and the cyclist only died because he chose to attempt a retaliatory, not defensive, assault. If you are justifiably fleeing an attack you are not required to stop so your attacker can get his footing and have another whack at you. Sheppard's being caught up was his fault for being violent and grabbing the car rather than being a good witness for police.

Anyway, based on the tape and my non-professional knowledge of American law, that's how I'd argue it for Bryant in criminal court.

He'd still get nailed in the civil trial for sure.

 

[C-dot]

Thanks, carebear, for the perspective. Why Sheppard grabbed onto the car is a mystery - However, if he were caught on, say by his clothing, then Bryant may be at fault for continuing to drive. The prosecution could likely prove Bryant was aware of the cyclist attached to his car - It is difficult to imagine how he couldn't. But, it's not been stated whether or not Sheppard was caught.

The Toronto court will hear the charges on 16 November. The defense has stated she is eager for the trial to begin. Interestingly, yesterday was considered Bryant's first court appearance, at Old City Hall - But he was not present!

This is a fascinating case, and I am eager to see how the trial unfolds.

 

[carebear]

Criminal law, on both sides of the aisle, is all about finding a story that fits the facts and selling that story to the jury. That's why I find it so fascinating.

I gather from the tape Bryant had a passenger, depending on what Bryant's story is his/her testimony will be crucial for the prosecution as the video itself can be interpreted a number of ways.

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

Wine of the Day

The weekend is here and I've experimented tonight with a Tasmanian Sauvignon Blanc. I was a slow accepter of sauv blanc but eventually grew quite fond of the New Zealand offerings.

The 2005 Two Eights Tasmanian Sauv Blanc comes from a negotiant - but they've produced a very fine drop indeed - fruity with a dry finish and full body. One of the best of its kind I've tried - but for some reason the image won't download so the link will have to do.