At the Front B-10 Jacket

[cbrunt]

Hi Gang,

A B-10 is in my future. I've been reading here about the ELC and Aero jackets and am torn. However, now I just saw that At The Front is releasing a B-10 as well! The description sounds a little doubtful though since its poly and fake fur...

http://atthefront.com/us_uni_B10.html

Oh the choices... [huh]

Clint

 

[Edward]

It'll be interesting to hear both the comments from the Forum experts as to the authenticity or not of these based on the photos, as well as comments from eventual purchasers regarding overall fit, fell and quality as garments. I'd be potentially interested myself at this price, if they're anything like the thing. The faux lining and collar is obviously one compromise that helps keep the cost down.

As I understand it, the Eastman offering is considered to be the best on the market at present, though I personally struggle with the idea of spending GBP375 odds on a cloth jacket (however illogical that might be when I'd consider that acceptable for something of an equivalent quality in leather).

 

[havocpaul]

Another example of getting what you pay for, there's so much wrong with the ATF B-10 as there is with the Pike Bros version too. The use of synthetic fur is cost-cutting and incorrect. The ELC B-10 is the definitive repro IMO, the Buzz and RM versions are also spot-on with the correct Alpaca lining, density of cloth, mouton collar, zipper etc. I guess if you want a jacket that looks like a B-10 from a distance and don't mind the faults then the ATF version might suffice but I doubt it would last as long as the better examples.

 

[bburtner@moran]

Getting wgat you pay for

I do agree,but there are some folks out there that DO NOT have the scratch for the more exact examples,with over 700,000 unemployed in this country most middleclass working folk just do not have that disposable income.It is a sad state of affairs when the president says "spend more money to boost the economy,a joke,bring the jobs back to America,and put American`s back to work "AGAIN".PS If that B10 was 100% made in the USA I would buy it,rather than spend $600-$800 on a foreign made jacket.We all can`t be wealthy.........

 

[havocpaul]

Most of ATF gear is made in Asia and also some items have 'silly' faults, for example read their blurb on their M-41 jackets, their instructions appear lost in translation so to speak. We're still in recession here in UK so yes, buying high-end repros isn't as easy at it has been in years gone by but many jacket-nuts will still try and get the best and not settle for poorer items.

 

[bburtner@moran]

ATF

True,but some do have to eat,and keep the roof over our heads,spending foolishly when you really don`t have the money just does no make sense,being an old yankee string saver myself I quess I would have to pass on all accounts.....

 

[havocpaul]

I think we're drifting off topic, the original post was only asking for advice on getting a B-10 and that's what I was trying to comment on, nothing more.

 

[Phantomfixer]

I think we're drifting off topic, the original post was only asking for advice on getting a B-10 and that's what I was trying to comment on, nothing more.

ATF offers a lot of great items for reenactors. Their items are usually reasonably priced so if damaged "in the field" there is no big loss. I am sure the B-10 would pass the 10 foot rule. Alpaca linings are very warm but itchy. The fur lining should be just as warm and more comfortable. If you want a spot on collectors grade I would pass. To kick about on a cold day and have no worries then I think it would be a good purchase.

 

[havocpaul]

"Our jackets are top quality- comparable (or better) then the high-end coats that cost 3 times as much"
Looks like we'll have to wait to next Spring to see any 'in the flesh' but that kind of boast is rather bold to say the least.

 

[Phantomfixer]

ATF

Yes, I am new to the lounge, name is John, thank you. It is great site to hear others comments on jackets and such. I am a very private collector of flight jackets. From WWII up to current issue. I love em all. Been doing it for over 24 years now. Please make no mistake I am not defending/supporting ATF by any means. I stated that it would be a good jacket to use in the field or kicking around in. The cost of a real B-10 or even a good repop such as ELC is very high. This is a cheap way out for those who choose to and not have to worry about getting it trashed at a show/event.

Cheers all

 

[Phantomfixer]

ATF

BTW I am in no way affiliated with any company. It was an opinion (which was asked for) not a testimonial. I retired from the USAF and am living a very content life here on the east coast.

John

 

[havocpaul]

never thought you were a secret ATF 'employee', the guy who writes the stuff on their site rivals Stu at LW for rants at (potential) customers...the Basil Fawlty approach to selling!!

 

[cbrunt]

Folks,

Strictly speaking, I didn't imply he was an employee. But I definately meant to imply he was someone with an agenda. I have a "former" friend who used to do the very thing I'm implying... Create ficticious forum accounts for himself, or have friends create new ficticious accounts, to talk up his "hardcore" clothing he made... and bash people that made similar competing stuff and would rant and rant about why his errors or "cost-saving" short cuts were ok. He actually answered his own posts on occassion. And many them of were examples of creating an account and posting once to defend his stuff and never posting again...

He asked me to post a few things, which I politely declined; then asked if having my name attached bothered me, and if so I should create a fake account name and post away... He and his "minnions" thought it all good business... That and a few other things in the last 10 years makes me jaded about reenactor vendors and their ethics and tactics.

This review seem canned and to me it still does. Likewise, I'm a firm believer in basic forum ettiquette to keep this all semi "real" and have come to expect basic intros; if nothing else to see if you're really looking or just bored at work. I mean, how many of us on any random forum we visit have seen the person create a anonymous account, post one thing without an intro and never post again ?

Sorry for MY rant... But just felt I should explain my view. Considering the timing and context, it seemed fishy. Not implying that ATF is lurking but seemed odd. If John was sincere and was a lurker spurred to post about ATF B-10 question, my apologies. But I am spending the extra $25 for real fur collar and real wool lining!!!!

Clint

 

[bbc1969]

But I am spending the extra $25 for real fur collar and real wool lining!!!!
Clint

Well then you have your answer!

It is all about personal choice, and what you want to spend. I happened to purchase a ELC B-10, even though it is pricey, as I wanted "as close to original as possible today". I knew I would pay for that wish. I also had no plans to wear it out bird hunting, working on the car, or rolling around on the ground during a reenacting display. Just a nice repro jacket I like to wear with jeans, or out to the airport on a chilly day. I went with the ELC vs. the Aero due to the placement of the pockets on the Aero as the photos on their website made it look like they were too high up as compared to the originals I had seen. The photos of the ATF B-10 look pretty good (not withstanding the furry lining). I will be interested to hear someone get one in their hands and compare the quality of the outer shell as it looks just as good as my ELC (In pictures so far). Oh, and the ATF website says they are selling it for $250.00, so even with shipping I think you are looking at a gap larger than $25.00.

Of course the ELC, Aero, and BR offerings are available now! You might actually get one from them while it is still cold enough to wear it this season. ATF wont have theirs available till "May or June 2010"!

On the other hand, I purchased an ATF tanker and have been pleased. It fits well, is reasonable in its looks (with some notable departures from originals such as the zipper going all the way up). It was very budget friendly compared to the Buzz offering. I DO wear this jacket out and about, working in the yard, on the truck, and the like. I don't want to get it mucked up, but if it does, so be it. I too was looking at the "10 foot rule" when I got this jacket. I think it applies in the B-10 selection as well.... Its all about what you want.

Whichever choice you make is the right one. You will enjoy the B-10!

 

[Phantomfixer]

ATF

My apologies gentlemen. I am new in posting on forums. I have been reading the FL postings for awhile now and have been enlighted and amused. There have been some very informative posts and I have had alot of questions answered without even asking one myself. I thought the B-10 question was right my alley, so I took a shot. So please let me introduce myself. I am retired from the USAF crew chief(flightline all the way). Started working on F-4E Phantoms (the one with the big gun) at Ramstein Germany. My jet was a 68 model/ 68-0404. Was West Germany back in 83 when I was assigned there. Spent 4 years at Ramstein. Was there when they switched to F-16s. The rest they say is history. I have been collecting military flight jackest since I was 19. Been wearing an A-2 three seasons a year since then. Interested in them way before that. I have owned every type of repop A-2 out there. At least most of the high end ones and a few of the low end too. Settled on a Flight Suits russet HH as a daily wear jacket. They all seem to offer something different. I also collect nylon and CWU series flight jackets.

Cheers
JZ

 

[Fiver64]

The B-10 in question

In my experiences at dealing with ATF (and not endorsing or affiliated with them in any way) you generally get a good value-for-the-money purchase. If you want strict authenticity and are a collector/expert, Nope...... look elsewhere. If you want something that will be built reasonably well and take whatever beating you intend to dish out, it should be fine.

Try to read Roland's rants with a smile. The general customer he deals with is often less than social, often unrealistically demanding reenactor. Folks on TFL are (usually) a moderate, educated, well-mannered lot. His sarcasm (and humor) is sometimes misunderstood. My take is that what ATF lacks in polish, he makes up for in good, honest, realistic dealings. I would NOT hesitate to buy from them, just be sure you are on the same page as far as degree of authenticity, etc, as they are. May just want to call ask a few questions before ordering.

As another member has said, it will look fine unless subjected to close inspection. Besides, I don't think there are too many B-10 knock-offs available at this time...are there?

 

[CBI]

I have always had good luck with ATF and ignore the odd posts. I agree as started above, that its excellent stuff for the money - generally good/excellent enough unless you are a super hardcore collector (as even in this case, lots of great items. As far as repros though, I don't think WWII Impressions or What Price Glory does that much better or less fine a job. It really depends on the specific item.

 

[havocpaul]

[.

Try to read Roland's rants with a smile. The general customer he deals with is often less than social, often unrealistically demanding reenactor. Folks on TFL are (usually) a moderate, educated, well-mannered lot. His sarcasm (and humor) is sometimes misunderstood. My take is that what ATF lacks in polish, he makes up for in good, honest, realistic dealings. I would NOT hesitate to buy from them, just be sure you are on the same page as far as degree of authenticity, etc, as they are. May just want to call ask a few questions before ordering. QUOTE

That's fine but then they shouldn't be making claims that their's is as good as or better than others, simply not true! They do satisfy many re-enactors with kit that can be bashed about and looks like the original from a distance I don't dispute that but this B-10 is not right and their ongoing problems with their M-41's due to communication breakdown between them and their foreign maker is not good IMO.

 

[Fiver64]

[.

That's fine but then they shouldn't be making claims that their's is as good as or better than others, simply not true!

Quite true. I was surprised to see ATF claim this. Still, looks like an fairly cool jacket anyway...... and not a major investment if it doesn't measure up.

 

[Ponsenby]

I know its a bit hard to see under the flight kit, but here is my Buzz Rickson B10...