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[skylize]

If a hat lacks a size tag, how would you determine if it is regular, long, wide, extra long oval?

And I guess the same question for a head. Any way to measure it instead of trying on a bunch of stiff new hats?

 

[belfastboy]

If a hat lacks a size tag, how would you determine if it is regular, long, wide, extra long oval?

And I guess the same question for a head. Any way to measure it instead of trying on a bunch of stiff new hats?

A cheap - poor man's conformateur works very well. It is just as effective as my much more expensive conformateur. On Amazon buy a carpenters Flexible Curve ($15). Get someone to wrap it around your head making certain it conforms tightly to your head. Gently slip it off, pinching the ends together to keep the exact shape, then trace it, (inside edge) on to a piece of paper. Attach an overhead shot of the tracing along with the dimensions, east/west & north/south to this thread. Then I can tell you if you are a long oval or regular oval......90% + of men. There is the odd chance you are an Xlong oval but they, thankfully are rare....as are full ovals. Most mass produced hats are either regular ovals or modified long ovals (unless it states on the size tag) We all sit somewhere along the head shape continuum. Some are true Reg Ovals , some true Long ovals.....and then the rest of us fit somewhere in between along the continuum.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

If a hat lacks a size tag, how would you determine if it is regular, long, wide, extra long oval?

And I guess the same question for a head. Any way to measure it instead of trying on a bunch of stiff new hats?

This chart is for standard or regular oval. If the length is longer and the width is less, but the size is the same: you’re a long oval.

 

[skylize]

This chart is for standard or regular oval. If the length is longer and the width is less, but the size is the same: you’re a long oval.

Very nice.

Any genius ideas for applying the chart to a human head?

 

[skylize]

There is the odd chance you are an Xlong oval but they, thankfully are rare....as are full ovals.

What the heck is a "full oval"? Sounds like it means both long and wide, but wouldn't that just translate to a bigger size?

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Very nice.

Any genius ideas for applying the chart to a human head?

 

[skylize]

View attachment 494144

Haha. That looks like a complicated side project.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Haha. That looks like a complicated side project.

$225

https://hatterssupplyhouse.com/conformer-lite/

 

[belfastboy]

What the heck is a "full oval"? Sounds like it means both long and wide, but wouldn't that just translate to a bigger size?

a 'full oval is a true circle. I had a fellow come into my shop last week with a hat he purchased in Japan. Damned if it wasn't a full & complete perfect circle. Unsurprisingly it did not fit him very well. Even though he was a perfect regular oval the hat pinched him at the forehead and distorted the brim. I manage to ovalize it enough so it fit him better and stopped the brim from distoring. Apparently it is not that unusual for Asian men to have a 'full or true oval' head shape.

 

[belfastboy]

$225

https://hatterssupplyhouse.com/conformer-lite/

$225

https://hatterssupplyhouse.com/conformer-lite/

I prefer to use my Flex Curves.....they are just as accurate and much quicker/easier to use. BUT I use my conformateur because it seems so complex and exotic it helps to sell the sizzle of a custom hat fitting. My Flex Curves just don't have the same pizzazz!

 

[moehawk]

Apparently nobody has opinions on removal of logo protectors?

I don't really know the answers to the value questions. I have, however, removed several liner tip protectors over the years, but not for dirt or such. I usually only take them out if they are already torn or otherwise damaged, or if they interfere with my ability to crease and pinch the hat how I want.
I would imagine that most collectors who have been at it a while know that many of the gold metallic inks used on size tags, sweatband stamps and tip logos will over time oxidize green. So I would leave the tip protector in to preserve the original state and let the buyer decide if it should be removed.
Plus, it may be keeping that green gunk off the top of the wearer's head...

 

[Genuine Classic Gangster]

I was browsing around the websites of many custom hatters who are recommended by members here.

And I noticed a recurring pattern in that most of their websites are terrible.

The biggest problem is that their websites generally have very few photos of their hats. Sometimes they don't even have images of their swatches listed.

But even when they do have swatches listed as an image to look at, that's not enough to determine if a potential customer would like that color or not when it is made into a whole entire hat.

Some well-regarded custom hatters post photos of some of the hats they made on Instagram, but even when that happens, it seems like those photos are slim pickings, which often do not represent anywhere close to the full range of hat options that they could make.

So for these reasons, custom hatters putting up an abundance of high quality photos of most or all of their hat offerings is quite essential, especially for customers who do not live close enough to visit their shops in-person. Yet they generally don't do it.

I understand that hatters are not web designers and should not be expected to be. However, I don't see any good reason for as to why they usually never bother to hire a web designer in order to make good websites for themselves, and also why they almost never post photos that showcase their entire hat line.

When I have have made some criticisms similar to these points before, I received blow back along the lines of: "do you want a good website, or do you want a good hat?" My counter-argument to that is: even if a hatter is great at making hats, I still need need to be able to see what I'm buying from them, before I make a purchasing decision, so that I can make a good & informed decision. A hatter having great skill at his craft does not in any way diminish that reality IMO.

So, my question: what do you think are the reasons why most hatters' websites are terrible, and why they almost never hire good web designers to make good websites for them, and why they almost never showcase their full array of hats with photos on their websites?

Doing all that would be in their own best interest, as it would increase their sales & profits. And it would also be in their customers' best interest too, so it would be a win/win situation all around.

Supplementary question: do you think hatters, on the whole, are ever going to get with the times in terms of starting to make good & comprehensive websites to showcase the full range of their hats properly?

 

[belfastboy]

I was browsing around the websites of many custom hatters who are recommended by members here.

And I noticed a recurring pattern in that most of their websites are terrible.

The biggest problem is that their websites generally have very few photos of their hats. Sometimes they don't even have images of their swatches listed.

But even when they do have swatches listed as an image to look at, that's not enough to determine if a potential customer would like that color or not when it is made into a whole entire hat.

Some well-regarded custom hatters post photos of some of the hats they made on Instagram, but even when that happens, it seems like those photos are slim pickings, which often do not represent anywhere close to the full range of hat options that they could make.

So for these reasons, custom hatters putting up an abundance of high quality photos of most or all of their hat offerings is quite essential, especially for customers who do not live close enough to visit their shops in-person. Yet they generally don't do it.

I understand that hatters are not web designers and should not be expected to be. However, I don't see any good reason for as to why they usually never bother to hire a web designer in order to make good websites for themselves, and also why they almost never post photos that showcase their entire hat line.

When I have have made some criticisms similar to these points before, I received blow back along the lines of: "do you want a good website, or do you want a good hat?" My counter-argument to that is: even if a hatter is great at making hats, I still need need to be able to see what I'm buying from them, before I make a purchasing decision, so that I can make a good & informed decision. A hatter having great skill at his craft does not in any way diminish that reality IMO.

So, my question: what do you think are the reasons why most hatters' websites are terrible, and why they almost never hire good web designers to make good websites for them, and why they almost never showcase their full array of hats with photos on their websites?

Doing all that would be in their own best interest, as it would increase their sales & profits. And it would also be in their customers' best interest too, so it would be a win/win situation all around.

Supplementary question: do you think hatters, on the whole, are ever going to get with the times in terms of starting to make good & comprehensive websites to showcase the full range of their hats properly?

The quick and easy answer is that the hatters that are mentioned here in the Lounge have extensive wait lists so perhaps doing what they are doing website wise works well enough. Some hatters here in the Lounge at one point had wait lists of over 1 year.....not that uncommon.

Also, most of the hatters here in the Lounge are generalist hatters. They may have specialities but the craft dictates they make the hat your want. If you provide a good hatter with the picture of the hat you would like...send it to them. There is a very good chance they can make you that hat....to your size and specs. That is how I operate. The world wide web is replete with millions of picturees of hats. Pick one, send it to your hatter of choice and begin the creative process. It is one aspect that makes buying a custom hat unique. Rather than buying a stock hat....like an Indiana Jones replication....you get to co design it with the hatter. For me as both a customer and a maker that part is the exciting part.

I for one don't even have a website. Too much bother and another 'thing' to administer. I have plenty of business with just repeats, word of mouth, the Lounge and my Instagram.

If you have a felt colour that interests you many hatters will send small swatch samples so you can see the true colour. Posting colours on websites is fraught with difficulties and rarely do you get an accurate representation. Even my supplier's websites suck at presenting the felt colours on offer. Same for my ribbon suppliers.

 

[Rmccamey]

I was browsing around the websites of many custom hatters who are recommended by members here.

And I noticed a recurring pattern in that most of their websites are terrible.

The biggest problem is that their websites generally have very few photos of their hats. Sometimes they don't even have images of their swatches listed.

But even when they do have swatches listed as an image to look at, that's not enough to determine if a potential customer would like that color or not when it is made into a whole entire hat.

Some well-regarded custom hatters post photos of some of the hats they made on Instagram, but even when that happens, it seems like those photos are slim pickings, which often do not represent anywhere close to the full range of hat options that they could make.

So for these reasons, custom hatters putting up an abundance of high quality photos of most or all of their hat offerings is quite essential, especially for customers who do not live close enough to visit their shops in-person. Yet they generally don't do it.

I understand that hatters are not web designers and should not be expected to be. However, I don't see any good reason for as to why they usually never bother to hire a web designer in order to make good websites for themselves, and also why they almost never post photos that showcase their entire hat line.

When I have have made some criticisms similar to these points before, I received blow back along the lines of: "do you want a good website, or do you want a good hat?" My counter-argument to that is: even if a hatter is great at making hats, I still need need to be able to see what I'm buying from them, before I make a purchasing decision, so that I can make a good & informed decision. A hatter having great skill at his craft does not in any way diminish that reality IMO.

So, my question: what do you think are the reasons why most hatters' websites are terrible, and why they almost never hire good web designers to make good websites for them, and why they almost never showcase their full array of hats with photos on their websites?

Doing all that would be in their own best interest, as it would increase their sales & profits. And it would also be in their customers' best interest too, so it would be a win/win situation all around.

Supplementary question: do you think hatters, on the whole, are ever going to get with the times in terms of starting to make good & comprehensive websites to showcase the full range of their hats properly?

You make some good points that today's business owners should consider. Your best answers will have to come from the hatters themselves as the vast majority of us here are consumers, not makers. The best we can do is guess or postulate as to reasons why.

One thing to consider is that, unlike most manufactured products, specialty handmade products (in this case, hats) have a practical upper limit to the number that can be produced per person per unit time at a given level of quality. Most custom hatters I know, or know of, have current wait times of 2, 3, 6, 12, 24 months. And, again, most I know have been in this same position for several years with no sign of orders subsiding anytime soon. So, you have to ask, where is the ROI? Should a hatter with a consistent 6 month backlog spend time and resources on a website, webmaster, or consultant or on making hats, building inventory for their storefront, or upgrading equipment? All this knowing that an improved website could bring even more customers thus extending wait times to the point they start losing customers?

Business - not for the faint of heart!

 

[belfastboy]

You make some good points that today's business owners should consider. Your best answers will have to come from the hatters themselves as the vast majority of us here are consumers, not makers. The best we can do is guess or postulate as to reasons why.

One thing to consider is that, unlike most manufactured products, specialty handmade products (in this case, hats) have a practical upper limit to the number that can be produced per person per unit time at a given level of quality. Most custom hatters I know, or know of, have current wait times of 2, 3, 6, 12, 24 months. And, again, most I know have been in this same position for several years with no sign of orders subsiding anytime soon. So, you have to ask, where is the ROI? Should a hatter with a consistent 6 month backlog spend time and resources on a website, webmaster, or consultant or on making hats, building inventory for their storefront, or upgrading equipment? All this knowing that an improved website could bring even more customers thus extending wait times to the point they start losing customers?

Business - not for the faint of heart!

Of the custom hatters I know 3 of them find their wait lists a source of stress. I know of two that stopped taking orders when the wait exceeded a year. One other left the business, part of the reason was his success, and the attendant stress of meeting deadlines from a growing wait list of clients.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I’d rather my hatter not spend time, effort, or resources on their websites and keep making beautiful custom hats.

It would be nice if their websites were better, but when you already have more business than you can handle…? You can sometimes get some information from their websites and supplement that with social media posts and what you can find here.

 

[The Shoe]

a 'full oval is a true circle. I had a fellow come into my shop last week with a hat he purchased in Japan. Damned if it wasn't a full & complete perfect circle. Unsurprisingly it did not fit him very well. Even though he was a perfect regular oval the hat pinched him at the forehead and distorted the brim. I manage to ovalize it enough so it fit him better and stopped the brim from distoring. Apparently it is not that unusual for Asian men to have a 'full or true oval' head shape.

I went into a custom hatter in Osaka called Bunjirow. They make some pretty nice hats, but when I tried them on, I had the same problem. They told me that Japanese tend to have rounder heads than Europeans, and that they only made hats in that shape. Their hats on display were all beaver and they were quite a stiff felt, so that just made the fit all the less comfortable.
On a side note, I am quite keen to go back to the shop because they had some stunning hat bands there on the shelf. I actually sent them an email a bit later to enquire as to whether they could put one of them on one of the hats I already owned, but they said they only do work on their own hats. I was still relatively new to hats and I thought at the time that they were ribbons, but now I suspect that they were pugs, in which case I'd be quite keen to pick one up.

 

[belfastboy]

I went into a custom hatter in Osaka called Bunjirow. They make some pretty nice hats, but when I tried them on, I had the same problem. They told me that Japanese tend to have rounder heads than Europeans, and that they only made hats in that shape. Their hats on display were all beaver and they were quite a stiff felt, so that just made the fit all the less comfortable.
On a side note, I am quite keen to go back to the shop because they had some stunning hat bands there on the shelf. I actually sent them an email a bit later to enquire as to whether they could put one of them on one of the hats I already owned, but they said they only do work on their own hats. I was still relatively new to hats and I thought at the time that they were ribbons, but now I suspect that they were pugs, in which case I'd be quite keen to pick one up.

How expensive were the hats? The hat the fellow brought in he paid $200US for a few years back. It was just a felt shell. No sweat band, no ribbon, no liner.....just a black felt hat.

 

[AndyR]

...No, we are not giving away the farm, but we both made a conscious decision at that point. If we don't use something in 12 months - tools, furniture, clothes, shoes, hats, pots and pans - they are sold, given away or thrown away.

My problem is, every time I do that, I end up needing evetrything in the 13th month.

I do agree with you. I experienced what you outlined with my mother. After she passed I had to clean the family home that she lived in for 70 years. She was not a hoarder by any means but she did have 'stuff'.

All my report cards and class pictures, toys from my father's childhood, toys from my childhood, furniture from the 1950's in pristine condition. None of which had any monetary value at all. It was a bittersweet experience going through our family's history and in the end either recycling it or donating it. So many places accepting donations would not touch the furniture......too large for today's living spaces. It took me a number of months to find homes as I refused to throw it out unless absolutely necessary.

One of the saddest moments was donating my mother's 'good' china to a poor struggling couple next door. This was the china from the top cupboard only used for the high holidays and even then not used after father passed away. All that china sat in a cupboard for 70+ years and used just a dozen times.
Last year for Lent my project was to discard something unused, something extraneous each day of Lent. It worked but it was easy......the hard part is still all my 'stuff' that I do actually use and it amounts to still a great deal.

We've gone through some of that recently. It's definitely tough.

 

[The Shoe]

How expensive were the hats? The hat the fellow brought in he paid $200US for a few years back. It was just a felt shell. No sweat band, no ribbon, no liner.....just a black felt hat.

It was a couple of years back now, but I think they started around ¥40,000 ($US300 now, but more back then).
I think their main business is Panama hats. They’re also, I believe, quite well known for their Boaters, which have been in several movies/TV shows over here.
Interestingly, looking at their website now, the prices start at just under ¥30,000 and go up to about ¥55,000. They no longer seem to offer beaver, just Czech and Portuguese fur felt and the odd woolfelt.
I think the son-in-law had taken over as the main hat maker, but he no longer features on the website. Their website does, however state “We have fifteen oval and round head shapes.
We pride ourselves on making the perfect hat for any shape and personality.”
Things have clearly changed since I visited the shop.
https://www.panamaya.com/hpgen/HPB/entries/91.html