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[deadlyhandsome]

If someone changed the sweatband, then all you have is a hat. Not a named anything. The sweatband is the model and if that is gone, then it is no longer the model.

I had a Whippet that was only marked as such on the liner with nothing on the sweatband other than the normal Stetson markings.

To be an original hat it all has to be complete and, well, original. That said, if I replace a rotted sweatband does it stop being the model it was? Not to me, no more than if I replace a car’s worn out transmission with a new one...it’s no longer a matching serial number car, but it’s still the same model.

 

[AbbaDatDeHat]

Ok....so...
A guy walks into a bar...
He sees a horse sittin there wearin a hat.
So...he sits down next to him and lays his hat between em, brim up.
The horse looks over, sees the sweatband and says “I see your wearin an OR”.
The guy puffs up and says “Why yes i am”!
The horse says “Well so am I”!
The guy pipes up “Well i don’t know about that, i can’t see the innards”.
The horse says “Well fella, there ain’t no hat check in this here establishment and i don’t lay my hat on a bar or crown down but sure as i’m a Tennessee Walker this is an OR by gosh”!
Well the guy looked around with a befuddled face then said “You look like a sitter to me”!
About that time the barkeep who was wearin an OR, slapped his hand down hard and said “He’s right by gosh”....“There ain’t no hat checker, horses can’t talk and a horse’s ass is a horse’s ass”!!
Stunned, the horse and the guy both looked at each other, befuddled faces, and wondered which he, he was a talkin about and quietly finished their drink.
So....who’s the horse, the guy, or the bar keep?
Idk
B

 

[Héctor Fernández]

I have seen many restorations done by Optimo, VS, and other outfits where they replaced the sweatband because it was necessary. That on it's own doesn't mean the hat is no longer "the" hat. For a collector it may not be as valuable, nevertheless, a Stratoliner remains a Stratoliner, with or without the original sweatband.

If someone changed the sweatband, then all you have is a hat. Not a named anything. The sweatband is the model and if that is gone, then it is no longer the model.

 

[jlee562]

The sweat can identify the model, but in and of itself is not the model. We've also seen wrong sweatbands installed, a Whippet does not become an OR if the factory mistakenly put an OR sweat in. The hat becomes non-original if the sweat is replaced, but count me in the camp that says that does not disqualify it from being that model.

 

[Frunobulax]

[Rod Serling Voice] "Submitted for your consideration..."[/Rod Serling Voice]

Stetson Playboy - marked Playboy on the sweat. Blocked on a 123, same soft Playboy felt, 1.5" ribbon, 2 1/2" brim, no brim stitching.

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/playboys-on-parade.9386/page-26#post-2529596


Unmarked Stetson, blocked on a 122 (I think we have seen both for marked PBs), soft PB felt, normal PB ribbon width, 6" OC, 2 3/4" brim, no brim stitching.

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/playboys-on-parade.9386/page-28#post-2643341

One walks like a duck and talks like a duck. The other is wearing a name tag that says, "Duck."

Sometimes I just throw my hands up.

 

[AbbaDatDeHat]

^^^barkeep

 

[Louis Mountbatten]

Collectibles are a funny thing. And hats makes it a bit different because they are also things that can be used. If you collect antique toys, you don't really want to sit on the floor and play with them. LOL. But a hat can be worn, collectible or not.

So, there are two different ways to view them. If you just like to wear them, who cares what they are called? However, if you are a collector, the details matter. A whole lot.

For me, I would never pay "Whippet" prices for a hat that "seems" like a Whippet but is not marked as such. It would also not matter to me that someone said they swear it was a Whippet before they replaced the sweatband. A Chevy Impala is marked all over the place. A Whippet or an OR is not, it is usually marked one place. A Chevy Impala can have its markings replaced without changing anything that makes it worth its price. A Whippet or an OR cannot be "restored" to its original condition. Once a collectible hat has been altered, it is no longer a collectible hat. It's just a hat.

It is perfectly fine if you enjoy your hat. You can call it anything you want. But the collectible price is all in the markings... and that is true in all collectibles, not just hats. No one pays collectible prices for things that are altered beyond recognition.

If a Stetson 100 is stripped of its sweatband and its liner, then it is just a nice felt. You can remake it into a great hat with a new sweatband and a new liner. But once all that is done it is no longer a Stetson 100. If you like your hat, that is great. Wear it with pride and enjoy it.

If Stetson itself put in the wrong sweatband, it is a nice oddity, that is all.

Again, its fantastic if you love your hat. But a collectible is only a top shelf item if its markings are all in place where they belong. Any collector will tell you this of any collectible. Something might be worth $100 if in perfect shape, but if it has been beaten up or if parts are missing, the price tumbles accordingly. And that is as it should be.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Collectibles are a funny thing. And hats makes it a bit different because they are also things that can be used. If you collect antique toys, you don't really want to sit on the floor and play with them. LOL. But a hat can be worn, collectible or not.

So, there are two different ways to view them. If you just like to wear them, who cares what they are called? However, if you are a collector, the details matter. A whole lot.

For me, I would never pay "Whippet" prices for a hat that "seems" like a Whippet but is not marked as such. It would also not matter to me that someone said they swear it was a Whippet before they replaced the sweatband. A Chevy Impala is marked all over the place. A Whippet or an OR is not, it is usually marked one place. A Chevy Impala can have its markings replaced without changing anything that makes it worth its price. A Whippet or an OR cannot be "restored" to its original condition. Once a collectible hat has been altered, it is no longer a collectible hat. It's just a hat.

It is perfectly fine if you enjoy your hat. You can call it anything you want. But the collectible price is all in the markings... and that is true in all collectibles, not just hats. No one pays collectible prices for things that are altered beyond recognition.

If a Stetson 100 is stripped of its sweatband and its liner, then it is just a nice felt. You can remake it into a great hat with a new sweatband and a new liner. But once all that is done it is no longer a Stetson 100. If you like your hat, that is great. Wear it with pride and enjoy it.

If Stetson itself put in the wrong sweatband, it is a nice oddity, that is all.

Again, its fantastic if you love your hat. But a collectible is only a top shelf item if its markings are all in place where they belong. Any collector will tell you this of any collectible. Something might be worth $100 if in perfect shape, but if it has been beaten up or if parts are missing, the price tumbles accordingly. And that is as it should be.

I don’t think anyone disagrees with this. I don’t think the discussion was on collectibility or reselling the hats or how alterations impact value. You might be unable to prove it’s a Whippet, and you might not get Whippet prices if you decide to sell it, but it’s still your Whippet if you replace the sweatband.

 

[Frunobulax]

Well, now we're talking about collectibility and value, not whether a hat is correctly identified. That's a different target to shoot for.

An Impala may have several markings, but they can all be removed and/or replaced. You would have no knowledge whether somebody's little Impala marking is original to the car, or if I lost one and reordered one made ten years later from Chevrolet. Similarly, if Stetson were still in business, and you could have your old Whippet restored with original equipment, it would devalue the collectibility of the old hat if you were able to determine the sweat was replaced. Additionally, given that there are a lot of holes in the history of hats, models, construction, etc, we have no way of knowing if the hat was sold as specific model with or without the designation.

As far as I know, that unmarked Playboy above was purchased by somebody that went to a store and said, "I want a Playboy," and the clerk sold him this.

It's a fun exercise, and I see the points on both sides.

 

[AbbaDatDeHat]

If someone changed the sweatband, then all you have is a hat. Not a named anything. The sweatband is the model and if that is gone, then it is no longer the model.

Unless it has the white tag behind the sweatband that says Open Road on it i read.
B

 

[Héctor Fernández]

Well, at the end of the day a "collectible" is worth only what someone is willing to pay for it. But this was never about collectabily, right?

Collectibles are a funny thing. And hats makes it a bit different because they are also things that can be used. If you collect antique toys, you don't really want to sit on the floor and play with them. LOL. But a hat can be worn, collectible or not.

So, there are two different ways to view them. If you just like to wear them, who cares what they are called? However, if you are a collector, the details matter. A whole lot.

For me, I would never pay "Whippet" prices for a hat that "seems" like a Whippet but is not marked as such. It would also not matter to me that someone said they swear it was a Whippet before they replaced the sweatband. A Chevy Impala is marked all over the place. A Whippet or an OR is not, it is usually marked one place. A Chevy Impala can have its markings replaced without changing anything that makes it worth its price. A Whippet or an OR cannot be "restored" to its original condition. Once a collectible hat has been altered, it is no longer a collectible hat. It's just a hat.

It is perfectly fine if you enjoy your hat. You can call it anything you want. But the collectible price is all in the markings... and that is true in all collectibles, not just hats. No one pays collectible prices for things that are altered beyond recognition.

If a Stetson 100 is stripped of its sweatband and its liner, then it is just a nice felt. You can remake it into a great hat with a new sweatband and a new liner. But once all that is done it is no longer a Stetson 100. If you like your hat, that is great. Wear it with pride and enjoy it.

If Stetson itself put in the wrong sweatband, it is a nice oddity, that is all.

Again, its fantastic if you love your hat. But a collectible is only a top shelf item if its markings are all in place where they belong. Any collector will tell you this of any collectible. Something might be worth $100 if in perfect shape, but if it has been beaten up or if parts are missing, the price tumbles accordingly. And that is as it should be.

 

[AbbaDatDeHat]

^^^rings>id>variances>stupid stories>what if’s/who done it’s>collector predilections.
Wonder how those rings are doing??
B

 

[DrMacabre]

Thanks to everyone for your inputs. Apart from the line on the crown, the size of this hat is also completely off so i’m still thinking about sending it back. I don’t know if this is typical to this type of stetson but this hat is just not the size it says on the tag. It’s at least 1 size up. I have a 1950 stetson here that is spot on in size, same as an old Keith. I don’t feel to insert 1cm of foam under the sweatband for this hat to stay on my head. Here’s a picture of me wearing it btw

 

[Lean'n'mean]

Collectibles are a funny thing. And hats makes it a bit different because they are also things that can be used.

It ain't collectibles that are funny but collectors. Many if not most "collectibles" can be "used" though; spinning Jennies, watches, cars, demijohns, suits, shoes, 17th century surgical instruments, etc.

If you collect antique toys, you don't really want to sit on the floor and play with them.

The hell I don't !

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Thanks to everyone for your inputs. Apart from the line on the crown, the size of this hat is also completely off so i’m still thinking about sending it back. I don’t know if this is typical to this type of stetson but this hat is just not the size it says on the tag. It’s at least 1 size up. I have a 1950 stetson here that is spot on in size, same as an old Keith. I don’t feel to insert 1cm of foam under the sweatband for this hat to stay on my head. Here’s a picture of me wearing it btw

View attachment 216450

If not this hat find another just like it in your size; you wear this style well.

 

[Lean'n'mean]

I don’t feel to insert 1cm of foam under the sweatband for this hat to stay on my head.

Si tu n'aimes pas la mousse, tu peux toujours utiliser quelques billets de 20 euros, pliés.

 

[DrMacabre]

Si tu n'aimes pas la mousse, tu peux toujours utiliser quelques billets de 20 euros, pliés.

Il va m’en falloir des liasses

 

[Lean'n'mean]

Il va m’en falloir des liasses

Pas pour si peu. 1 cm est vite comblé. ( une taille de chapeau = environ 1 cm )
Cela dit, si tu as des liasses qui traînent..... je suis preneur.

 

[Louis Mountbatten]

I need an 1-1/4 ribbon in dark brown for a Knox. What is the best place to get it done at a fair price that does add 2 X what the hat is worth to the costs?

 

[belfastboy]

I need an 1-1/4 ribbon in dark brown for a Knox. What is the best place to get it done at a fair price that does add 2 X what the hat is worth to the costs?

Where in the US (or World) are you located?