Ask a question, get an answer

[jlee562]

Stetson Japan seems to be under the impression that the Royal Deluxe line is 10% beaver.

Though I also recall at the time that @Jedwbpm said he didn't know who told them that because he didn't even know, and that he could neither confirm nor deny.

Just personally, I find the "beaver is the name of a finish" logic unlikely.

 

[drmaxtejeda]

Viva Optimo Chicago! When they say 100% beaver, they mean it.

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

 

[Winston Carter]

What newer hats are beaver blend? Stetson, Dobbs, Resistol (Hat-Co et al) refuse to tell us what fur content their hats are and the “Beaver” in the 6X, etc. has been stated elsewhere as a description of the finish and not the fur type. If a 6X Beaver, 4X Beaver, etc. have no beaver fur in their felt....
Now, it could be that there is some beaver content, but we’re left to speculate because Hat-Co, and others, will not say. For dress weight hats from the modern Stetson lineup, I doubt there is any beaver in the Royal or the Royal DeLuxe.

Don’t get me wrong, rabbit and rabbit and hare blend felts can make wonderful hats. Many of the revered vintage hats were made of such felts. However, the vintage felts were felted better and are generally far superior to current felts of the same materials.

Excuse me for rambling.

I am talking Resistol and Stetson. I don't know what level or amount of Beaver felt is in their hats. All we have to go on is the hatband that rates the level by X's. The fedora's at Hat-Co which are seconds they just put a generic band that reads Royal Quality whatever that means.

 

[drmaxtejeda]

Let's go on a buyer's strike!

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I am talking Resistol and Stetson. I don't know what level or amount of Beaver felt is in their hats. All we have to go on is the hatband that rates the level by X's. The fedora's at Hat-Co which are seconds they just put a generic band that reads Royal Quality whatever that means.

The problem is that the manufacturers have never told us what the “X” counts mean; although, we do know that the meaning has changed over the years. You can have a “6X Beaver” that doesn’t have any beaver fur in the felt. In the past, it has been intimated that the Xs and the use of the word “Beaver” refers to the fineness of the finish and has nothing to do with any beaver fur content in the felt. We just don’t know.

 

[drmaxtejeda]

The problem is that the manufacturers have never told us what the “X” counts mean; although, we do know that the meaning has changed over the years. You can have a “6X Beaver” that doesn’t have any beaver fur in the felt. In the past, it has been intimated that the Xs and the use of the word “Beaver” refers to the fineness of the finish and has nothing to do with any beaver fur content in the felt. We just don’t know.

False advertising, that's what it is!!! Let's threaten them with a lawsuit or an audit, Brent.

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

 

[Winston Carter]

The problem is that the manufacturers have never told us what the “X” counts mean; although, we do know that the meaning has changed over the years. You can have a “6X Beaver” that doesn’t have any beaver fur in the felt. In the past, it has been intimated that the Xs and the use of the word “Beaver” refers to the fineness of the finish and has nothing to do with any beaver fur content in the felt. We just don’t know.

I do know that the Resistol's that I bought from Hat-Co 30+ years ago (when it was Resistol Hat Outlet) which had 10X Beaver printed on hatband were thicker.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I do know that the Resistol's that I bought from Hat-Co 30+ years ago (when it was Resistol Hat Outlet) which had 10X Beaver printed on hatband were thicker.

But surely the “Xs” are not a measure of thickness. Thin and dense felt are the hallmarks of a fine dress weight beaver hat. I do know that Winchester and FEPSA offer beaver blend western weight hat bodies, but I believe Hat-Co makes their own felts.

I own some “Clear Beaver” western hats where the felt is thinner than a modern Stetson or Resistol western. I don’t think thickness is a good indicator of felt quality or it’s composition.

The elusive meaning of the “Xs” and the use of the word “Beaver” have frustrated and confused us for a long time. It’s generally agreed to be a marketing ploy rather than some quantifiable quality standard. I have heard it said that the use of the word “Beaver” is reserved for all fur felt construction, and in the US the law requires tags to disclose the percentage of wool in the product. I’ve also heard it speculated that all hats marked as “Beaver” have some beaver fur content; however, no sources have been cited to me. It’s a mystery to me but maybe someone more knowledgeable will help us out?

 

[drmaxtejeda]

But surely the “Xs” are not a measure of thickness. Thin and dense felt are the hallmarks of a fine dress weight beaver hat. I do know that Winchester and FEPSA offer beaver blend western weight hat bodies, but I believe Hat-Co makes their own felts.

I own some “Clear Beaver” western hats where the felt is thinner than a modern Stetson or Resistol western. I don’t think thickness is a good indicator of felt quality or it’s composition.

The elusive meaning of the “Xs” and the use of the word “Beaver” have frustrated and confused us for a long time. It’s generally agreed to be a marketing ploy rather than some quantifiable quality standard. I have heard it said that the use of the word “Beaver” is reserved for all fur felt construction, and in the US the law requires tags to disclose the percentage of wool in the product. I’ve also heard it speculated that all hats marked as “Beaver” have some beaver fur content; however, no sources have been cited to me. It’s a mystery to me but maybe someone more knowledgeable will help us out?

Someone with access to an electron microscope could do a hair count. It really isn't that complicated, I should think. We used to have an electron microscope in the U of Illinois that would even display the chemical elements present in a sample.

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

 

[deadlyhandsome]

False advertising, that's what it is!!! Let's threaten them with a lawsuit or an audit, Brent.

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

Hey now, I don’t want the hat manufacturers to black list me. I am surprised that they aren’t required to tell what materials are used in their products. You don’t get the recipe for Coca-Cola but they do have to disclose their ingredients. In this day of consumer rights, allergies, political sensibilities, etc. I would think they would tell us what their products were made of.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[drmaxtejeda]

Electon microscope pic of a strand of hair. Every species' hair is different.

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Someone with access to an electron microscope could do a hair count. It really isn't that complicated, I should think. We used to have an electron microscope in the U of Illinois that would even display the chemical elements present in a sample.

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

There was a thread recently re-activated where they talked of microscopy and fur felt identification. You would need known exemplars to compare the felts to. I’ll go through my garage tonight and see if my scanning electron microscope is still there or if we got rid of it during the last garage sale.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[jlee562]

Among the current Stetson lineup, 4x is wool or buffalo, 5x I think is a wool/fur blend. I'm not even sure that the 6x is even still marketed as "6x beaver," just "6x." I don't want to know what's in the 3x hats if 4x is buffalo....

Historically, I'm inclined to believe that if a hat was marked with "beaver" it probably had some beaver content.

Maybe the "beaver finish" thing is true, but I'm disinclined to put much stock in it because of the following: I've never seen reference to "beaver finish" in marketing or trade copy; a Nutria hat was labeled as such because it contained Nutria; embossing "beaver" and/or literally a picture of a beaver seems like it wouldn't be tenable to advertise if it didn't contain beaver.

 

[drmaxtejeda]

There was a thread recently re-activated where they talked of microscopy and fur felt identification. You would need known exemplars to compare the felts to. I’ll go through my garage tonight and see if my scanning electron microscope is still there or if we got rid of it during the last garage sale.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

If you find it, I offer you $300 for it. [emoji2]

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

 

[Winston Carter]

Among the current Stetson lineup, 4x is wool or buffalo, 5x I think is a wool/fur blend. I'm not even sure that the 6x is even still marketed as "6x beaver," just "6x." I don't want to know what's in the 3x hats if 4x is buffalo....

Historically, I'm inclined to believe that if a hat was marked with "beaver" it probably had some beaver content.

Maybe the "beaver finish" thing is true, but I'm disinclined to put much stock in it because of the following: I've never seen reference to "beaver finish" in marketing or trade copy; a Nutria hat was labeled as such because it contained Nutria; embossing "beaver" and/or literally a picture of a beaver seems like it wouldn't be tenable to advertise if it didn't contain beaver.

I bought a XXXX Buffalo a while back. Great looking hat with 1" ribbon band and bound edge brim but I don't have the slightes clue as to what it is made of.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

If you find it, I offer you $300 for it. [emoji2]

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

I would think you had a gross of them already, along with a custom-built safe.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Among the current Stetson lineup, 4x is wool or buffalo, 5x I think is a wool/fur blend. I'm not even sure that the 6x is even still marketed as "6x beaver," just "6x." I don't want to know what's in the 3x hats if 4x is buffalo....

Historically, I'm inclined to believe that if a hat was marked with "beaver" it probably had some beaver content.

Maybe the "beaver finish" thing is true, but I'm disinclined to put much stock in it because of the following: I've never seen reference to "beaver finish" in marketing or trade copy; a Nutria hat was labeled as such because it contained Nutria; embossing "beaver" and/or literally a picture of a beaver seems like it wouldn't be tenable to advertise if it didn't contain beaver.

I have a couple Resistol hats with a kitten on the sweatband, so can I assume....and how about seal velour?

I do think you are correct about it having some beaver fur, but since the manufacturers are intentionally silent on the matter all we can do is guess. My guess is that if there is beaver content it’s not much.

I got a good laugh a while back when current Stetson Royal felt was speculated to be mostly dryer lint.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[AbbaDatDeHat]

Someone with access to an electron microscope could do a hair count. It really isn't that complicated, I should think. We used to have an electron microscope in the U of Illinois that would even display the chemical elements present in a sample.

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

New Field of Science:
Microgeneticbiofeltologist PhD.
Or...Dr. Beaver

The T-shirt would say:
“If it’s beaver....don’t leave her”
Man i’m glad i didn’t dig felt hats in college.
I would have waisted 8 yrs studying felt instead of rocks and still not be done!!
B

 

[Winston Carter]

The new Open Crown fedoras that I have bought from Hat-Co to bash with Royal Quality on hatband are a soft fine felt that steam but are still pliable. Very nice hats.

 

[drmaxtejeda]

Lol, Bowen!

New Field of Science:
Microgeneticbiofeltologist PhD.
Or...Dr. Beaver

The T-shirt would say:
“If it’s beaver....don’t leave her”
Man i’m glad i didn’t dig felt hats in college.
I would have waisted 8 yrs studying felt instead of rocks and still not be done!!
B

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk