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[Fivesense]

Why not just get a SunBody that already has the Gus shape and a better brim width?

https://www.sunbody.com/index.cfm/product/197_3/golden-gus.cfm

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I like the Golden Gus but I'm not going specifically for a traditional Gus. I want a brim somewhere between 3-1/2 to 4" but not bigger (I've got other westerns for that). The idea of the Gus was to reshape the Cattleman to something a little lower (and exposes my lack of experience in shaping hats). I want a more moderate hat for times when I don't want to go full stock western, and something I can wear in my truck. How about that? I've got a full size truck, but because of the sunroof, my 5" crown rubs against the ceiling.

So I have shifted away from the Atwood Austin to an Atwood with an already defined, lower crown (4-3/4 or so) and a 3-1/2" brim. I like palm because I probably can't screw it up if I practice reshaping. In considering palm, I'm also looking at Sunbody.

I know palm leaf can be warmer so I want vents or eyelets. Should I be considering anyone other than Atwood and Sunbody? Candidly, I know I get a lot of hat with Atwood for quite a low price comparatively.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

There is a lot to this fur topic. I think there is no hair on a sheep anywhere that likes water and almost all of it is wiry and coarse.
Rabbit and beaver fur is not the same from around the pelt. Back hair is thicker and coarser and belly is finer. Rabbits have more finer fur. I have had rabbit/hare felt that finishes nice and has that nice velvet feel and has not gone crazy when water soaked. I have had some beaver hats that were scruffy feeling and pouncing them more made them approach the velvet feel. 100% beaver has no issue with getting soaked.
Some of the beaver ones were relatively recent hats that likely were Winchester bodies.

Even at the height of hat making the continental makers, who were the masters of the long hair felts, used rabbit rather than beaver for some finishes because rabbit was superior for the application.

There is definitely a place for both, but if you don’t want a bunch of caveats I feel comfortable stating the beaver is “better” than rabbit.


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[Art Fawcett]

Is Beaver felt better or / and more luxurious than Rabbit felt?
Is X / XX / XXX / XXXX / XXXXX / XXXXXX so much better than 100% Rabbit?
Who can tell me about Beaver felt in simple English.

I think so far most of the answers have missed a crucial point. The actual character of the hair makes all the difference in the world. Can you make a good hat from both rabbit and beaver, in the right hands yes, of course. However, wool and rabbit are essentially straight hairs that will felt nicely but can only achieve density over time whereas Beaver, with the natural "fish hooks" on the hair itself creates a much denser/stronger felt. The denser the felt, the better the finish that can be achieved, the longer water saturation takes to penetrate, and produces a shine not achievable with other hairs. To say that Rabbit and Beaver are equal and there is just a "cool factor" is to be misinformed.

 

[Fivesense]

When asked, 9 out of 10 beavers say rabbit fur felt is far superior to beaver fur felt.

What the heck happened to the 10th beaver?

 

[scottyrocks]

When asked, 9 out of 10 beavers say rabbit fur felt is far superior to beaver fur felt.

Ya gotta wonder about that tenth beaver.

 

[Fivesense]

My guess is the 10th was a beaver in rabbit clothing.

 

[Zombie_61]

What the heck happened to the 10th beaver?

He had already become a hat, and was therefore unavailable for comment.

 

[Mustang Mike's Hats]

When asked, 9 out of 10 beavers say rabbit fur felt is far superior to beaver fur felt.

Hear, Hear!! LOL! Now THAT brought a smile to my face.

 

[andrew_AU]

I've yet to receive an Akubra box. Stetson, Dobbs, Resistol still do.


Sent directly from my mind to yours.

You can buy an Akubra "presentation box" for A$40
https://www.hatsbythe100.com.au/akubra-hat-presentation-box.html

 

[Hurricane Jack]

Hear, Hear!! LOL! Now THAT brought a smile to my face.

Makes me think of this:

 

[Chasblount]

Makes me think of this:

Now THAT's funny!

 

[M Hatman]

When asked, 9 out of 10 beavers say rabbit fur felt is far superior to beaver fur felt.

LMAO

M

 

[RJR]

LMAO

M

 

[M Hatman]

What the heck happened to the 10th beaver?

I THINK..... the 10th beaver was an old one...... who wanted to go out in style........in the form of a custom hat!!!
M

 

[M Hatman]

on wool hats and sheep.......

M

 

[mayserwegener]

Even at the height of hat making the continental makers, who were the masters of the long hair felts, used rabbit rather than beaver for some finishes because rabbit was superior for the application.

There is definitely a place for both, but if you don’t want a bunch of caveats I feel comfortable stating the beaver is “better” than rabbit.


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The Germans and Austrians (other Euro and American) hat companies used Wild Hare not Rabbit for such finishes (Velour, Soleil, Flamand). Wild Hare (Saxon Hare was considered the best) produced the finest Velour finishes.

You can read more here.

http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/216-hair-velour-real-echter-velour-prime-prima-velour-fabrikation-von-damen-und-herren-filzhüten-der-deustchen-hutmacher-zeitung-1933/

Here is some earlier information.

http://germanaustrianhats.invisionz...lein-und-grossbetrieb-by-carl-bortfeldt-1902/

 

[mayserwegener]

I think so far most of the answers have missed a crucial point. The actual character of the hair makes all the difference in the world. Can you make a good hat from both rabbit and beaver, in the right hands yes, of course. However, wool and rabbit are essentially straight hairs that will felt nicely but can only achieve density over time whereas Beaver, with the natural "fish hooks" on the hair itself creates a much denser/stronger felt. The denser the felt, the better the finish that can be achieved, the longer water saturation takes to penetrate, and produces a shine not achievable with other hairs. To say that Rabbit and Beaver are equal and there is just a "cool factor" is to be misinformed.

Wild Hare is difficult to felt but produces the finest long hair finishes (Velour, Soleil, Flamand) and is very durable. I have pre WWII Austrian and German Velours (hot wet brushed) that are very dense with unmatched shine / gloss (Saxon Hare produced the finest). I translated this piece a while ago that contains detailed information on the subject. In this time period (1933) they were moving away from hand wet hot brushing to mechanical hot wet brushing (this takes place during felt production) and cheap imitations were being introduced.

Hair Velour / Real (Echter) Velour / Prime (Prima) Velour Fabrikation von Damen- und Herren- Filzhüten, Der Deustchen Hutmacher Zeitung (1933)

http://germanaustrianhats.invisionz...lzhüten-der-deustchen-hutmacher-zeitung-1933/

I have other valuable information on German and Austrian long hair felt (Velour, Soleil, Flamand) production but I haven't had a chance to translate.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

The Germans and Austrians (other Euro and American) hat companies used Wild Hare not Rabbit for such finishes (Velour, Soleil, Flamand). Wild Hare (Saxon Hare was considered the best) produced the finest Velour finishes.

You can read more here.

http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/216-hair-velour-real-echter-velour-prime-prima-velour-fabrikation-von-damen-und-herren-filzhüten-der-deustchen-hutmacher-zeitung-1933/

Here is some earlier information.

http://germanaustrianhats.invisionz...lein-und-grossbetrieb-by-carl-bortfeldt-1902/

I knew there was the “hare-rabbit” distinction but I was just lazy in lumping them both together; should have known it get caught in this crowd. I’ll be more careful with my taxonomy in the future. Thanks for keeping me honest Steve

Brent

 

[Jedwbpm]

I think so far most of the answers have missed a crucial point. The actual character of the hair makes all the difference in the world. Can you make a good hat from both rabbit and beaver, in the right hands yes, of course. However, wool and rabbit are essentially straight hairs that will felt nicely but can only achieve density over time whereas Beaver, with the natural "fish hooks" on the hair itself creates a much denser/stronger felt. The denser the felt, the better the finish that can be achieved, the longer water saturation takes to penetrate, and produces a shine not achievable with other hairs. To say that Rabbit and Beaver are equal and there is just a "cool factor" is to be misinformed.

I agree with Art, but want to add a point. Americans are obsessed with 100% everything. 100% Cabernet or any other grape ( Carbernet Franc can soften a big Cabernet and adds a wonderful rose hint to the nose) , Single Malt, ( a lot of Single Malt should be blended) and 100% Beaver (Blending furs can make for a better hat then 100% of any fur alone).

Jeff

 

[mayserwegener]

I agree with Art, but want to add a point. Americans are obsessed with 100% everything. 100% Cabernet or any other grape ( Carbernet Franc can soften a big Cabernet and adds a wonderful rose hint to the nose) , Single Malt, ( a lot of Single Malt should be blended) and 100% Beaver (Blending furs can make for a better hat then 100% of any fur alone).

Jeff

How can you talk about specialty finishes without mentioning Wild Hare?