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[Lefty]

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Here's another one of my "cool thing I learned from Debbie Henderson's Hat Talk" stories:

A derby is a bowler is a coke, depending upon where you are. The story, whether it's true or not, goes that Lord Coke needed a better form of topper for his men, who spent much of their time chasing poacher's off of Coke's land. The top hats got knocked off and were no defense for projectiles hurled by the poachers. Coke went to John Lock, the famous hatter whose business continues to this day, and asked Lock to design a suitable hat for the purpose. Lock bought his raw bodies from the Bowler brothers. He designed a short crowned, iron clad (shellac filled) hat. One myth says that Coke stood on the hat to test its strength. Coke liked what he saw, and a style was born.

On one side of the Thames, the hat was known as the Coke (Lock tradition dictated that a hat was named for he who commissioned it), while on the other, it was the Bowler. It's difficult to say why the hat is called a derby in the US, as that name is traced to the Early of Derby (which is pronounced Dar-bee).

With a shellac shortage in WWI and the growing acceptance of soft felt hats, bowlers themselves became softer hats. However, just as the every day top hat had transformed into a formal hat, the cultural significance of the bowler transformed. Within a few decades, the hard bowler became a sign of old sophistication and enjoyed a resurgence when President Eisenhower wore one.

All of this leads to the conclusion that the man in the photo is hardly a dandy. As well tailored as he may be, his hat indicates that he's dressed to chase away the thugs who have been poaching on the Lord's estate.

from Brad:

The first derby hat made in America was made by James H. Knapp way back when the Crofut & Knapp concern was known as Knapp & Gilliam. In those days the factory products were sold through jobbing houses, and the jobbing house that Knapp & Gilliam sold their goods through was known as Henderson & Bird.

The story is that some one had seen a stiff hat, a good deal of the character of the square crown hats that were afterward worn by coachmen. This hat Knapp & Gilliam made and took to New York to the jobbers, they in turn taking it to a retail outlet then on lower Broadway, in the vicinity of Ninth Street. They placed an order for a dozen and a half each of brown and black. Mr. Knapp asked for a name for the style, because then, as now, most hats were given a name. An English clerk suggested that they call it the "Darby," as the English Derby was then on. The hat was so named and afterward by a mispronunciation was known as the "Derby."

 

[Oldsarge]

I would rather wear my Cabela's Archers' hat out when hunting instead of a tasteless but legal blaze orange ball cap. Does anyone know where one can get a blaze hat band? I've seen then in the past but cannot find any references to them now. A 2" grosgrain ribbon in blaze orange would be just the ticket. BTW, the sweat band needs replacing, too.

 

[FedoraFan112390]

Straw hats/Cowboy Hats (Any Felt hat purists?)

I hope this isn't going to offend anyone here....
But I've just never been able to get into straw hats, or cowboy hats for that matter. I come from NYC, so maybe that's the reason. It's just they've always seemed somehow...comical...to me. I can't quite explain it--but it seems they're kind of part of a stereotype, the "Cowboy." A novelty amongst Easterners--a gimmicky sort of thing. For example, remember when Obama briefly wore a cowboy hat at a stop in I think Texas during the 2008 campaign? Kennedy was similarly offered a cowboy hat on the morning of his fateful day in Dallas--but respectfully and with a laugh declined to put it on despite being asked to. Like I said, I hope I don't offend anyone...It's just while I can respect fur felt hats, I don't really think of Cowboy Hats or Straw Hats being a "HAT" in the same way a fedora or trilby. I feel the same way about ballcaps and they're very urban and common around here--I get that same "They're a novelty" sort of thought.

Part of it I think comes from my father. When I was a kid, he'd wear straw Cowboy style hats all the time--Not as a joke but because he likes(d) them--And I remember as a kid he got looks or comments from my mother. My sister at her sweet sixteen, during her speech or whatever even (with a laugh) thanks my dad for not wearing a hat to the event--so he must've worn them quite a lot during this time.

I just feel a certain sense of purism about fur hats. I guess if I were ever down south, I'd wear a Cowboy hat to fit in and to cool off...It's just they come off as alien to me. Like I said, I think part of it is down to my dad--he and I aren't on the best of terms and also my mother's chiding him for wearing one. She hates hats and to be honest finds my interest in them eccentric, feeling I should be more "in touch" with what everyone else is wearing. She's held up my interest in hats against me as if it's a flaw when she's at her most angry. We've gotten into arguments over this. However, she LOVES the look of flatcaps/newsboy caps and has encouraged me to buy one. Odd.

I'd like to like straw hats--I own one--and cowboy hats. It just feels alien to me.

As an aside, a young me holding and donning one of my father's hats. I was about 5 here.

 

[FedoraFan112390]

I'd like to add that I'd love to get a hat like LBJ's--It seems to be a cross/compromise between a Fedora and a Cowboy hat. Anyone know what kinda hat it i exactly? I'd definitely wear something like this as is it's Western-ish without being a Cowboy hat per se--It wouldn't utterly stand out in the Northeast.

 

[HatsEnough]

Yes, one man's opinion. For me, I feel about Trilbys and stingy brim fedoras the same way you feel about cowboy hats. They are silly. Others here love the short brimmed fedora but to me they don't qualify as a real fedora. So, while you have trilbys and stingy brims included in your "purism" of the fur felt hat I'd scoff at that and chide you for claiming a trilby is a real fedora! (And I'd say that when looking at how you can't easily sell stingys on ebay while wide brimmed fedoras go for premium prices, more people agree with me!)

However, I concede that some people can carry off a trilby or stingy brim (while I look like a danged idiot in one). If they like it, who am I to say they shouldn't?

The upshot is, for me I'd argue against short brim fedoras. But if others love them, well, that is what it is.

As to cowboy hats, there is a time and place for them in my world. I have several, but wear them infrequently. But I'm not agin 'em.

As to LBJ's hat, he wore a lot of Resistols from what I hear. But the style is like the Stetson Open Road-style hat. A westernish fedora with a thin ribbon. They are easy to come by.

 

[job]

Oh boy.

 

[randooch]

Does this look familiar to anyone?

 

[mattface]

I hope this isn't going to offend anyone here....
But I've just never been able to get into straw hats, or cowboy hats for that matter. I come from NYC, so maybe that's the reason. It's just they've always seemed somehow...comical...to me. I can't quite explain it--but it seems they're kind of part of a stereotype, the "Cowboy." A novelty amongst Easterners--a gimmicky sort of thing. For example, remember when Obama briefly wore a cowboy hat at a stop in I think Texas during the 2008 campaign? Kennedy was similarly offered a cowboy hat on the morning of his fateful day in Dallas--but respectfully and with a laugh declined to put it on despite being asked to. Like I said, I hope I don't offend anyone...It's just while I can respect fur felt hats, I don't really think of Cowboy Hats or Straw Hats being a "HAT" in the same way a fedora or trilby. I feel the same way about ballcaps and they're very urban and common around here--I get that same "They're a novelty" sort of thought.

Part of it I think comes from my father. When I was a kid, he'd wear straw Cowboy style hats all the time--Not as a joke but because he likes(d) them--And I remember as a kid he got looks or comments from my mother. My sister at her sweet sixteen, during her speech or whatever even (with a laugh) thanks my dad for not wearing a hat to the event--so he must've worn them quite a lot during this time.

Like I said, I think part of it is down to my dad--he and I aren't on the best of terms and also my mother's chiding him for wearing one. She hates hats and to be honest finds my interest in them eccentric, feeling I should be more "in touch" with what everyone else is wearing. She's held up my interest in hats against me as if it's a flaw when she's at her most angry. We've gotten into arguments over this. However, she LOVES the look of flatcaps/newsboy caps and has encouraged me to buy one. Odd.

Sounds to me like you've got you Mommy/Daddy issues mixed up with fashion tastes. Whatever reason you have for not liking a certain style of hat is yours. No one else bears any responsibility for what you like to put on top of your head.

I can certainly understand your feeling though of certain styles feeling alien to you. For whatever reason, I find any brim width less than 2" looks comically small on m head, and I've had this confirmed by anyone who sees me try on a stingy brim. Just doesn't work on me. I can wear a cowboy, but it doesn't feel right to me. It's just not my style even though I've always loved cowboys, I'm a detroit boy transplanted to New England, and a cowboy hat feels like a costume to me. As for straws I prefer felts too, but I can't wear them in the summer I just get way too hot, so last summer I developed an appreciation for Panamas which can come in a very classic fedora style which I think suits me well. You might want to look at some of the styles panamas come in, you might find one that doesn't feel so weird to you.

The LBJ hat you point out is a VERY common western style, but I think it tends to be associated with a dressier, or more formal style. Stetson's ubiquitous Open Road is pretty much the hallmark of that style. Akubra makes one known as the Camp Draft. Although it's more commonly creased in the Rancher Crease, it can look a little less "cowboy" when bashed in a diamond or teardrop crease. I'm getting one off ebay soon, and I'll give it a whirl in one of those creases, see if it suits me, and if not I'll sell or trade it to someone who can pull off the cowboy look better than I can.

 

[randooch]

Does this look familiar to anyone?

Nevermind. I answered my own question.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1800s-Odd-F...Velvet-Costume-Hat-/220830523476#ht_500wt_688

 

[jlee562]

I'd like to add that I'd love to get a hat like LBJ's--It seems to be a cross/compromise between a Fedora and a Cowboy hat. Anyone know what kinda hat it i exactly? I'd definitely wear something like this as is it's Western-ish without being a Cowboy hat per se--It wouldn't utterly stand out in the Northeast.

LBJ wore a Resistol San Antonio, which is basically Resistols' answer to the Stetson Open Road.

 

[mattface]

LBJ wore a Resistol San Antonio, which is basically Resistols' answer to the Stetson Open Road.

Wow! Talk about droppin' the knowledge! Do you know what size he wore?

 

[carouselvic]

7 3/8

 

[jlee562]

Wow! Talk about droppin' the knowledge! Do you know what size he wore?

Just sharing the knowledge I've gained from the other good folks here

 

[FedoraFan112390]

Question: If a seller brushes or steam cleans a hat prior to shipping it, does it need any further cleaning? I ask due to the fact that one of the hats I may be getting probably dates from the 1930s, along with my previously mentioned dust mite allergy.

 

[gtdean48]

Question: If a seller brushes or steam cleans a hat prior to shipping it, does it need any further cleaning? I ask due to the fact that one of the hats I may be getting probably dates from the 1930s, along with my previously mentioned dust mite allergy.

I clean every used hat I get regardless of what the seller does.

 

[randooch]

Question: If a seller brushes or steam cleans a hat prior to shipping it, does it need any further cleaning? I ask due to the fact that one of the hats I may be getting probably dates from the 1930s, along with my previously mentioned dust mite allergy.

Avoiding mites is pretty much hopeless unless you live in a sterile environment. They're teeming as you type, on your eyelashes, skin, clothes, everywhere.

To answer the Q, though: i give it the ol' sniff test. Anything fusty, off it goes to the sealed bucket with crumpled newspapers.

 

[FedoraFan112390]

What is JFK's brim size approximately?

 

[mattface]

I'm gonna guess 1 and 3/4"

 

[scottyrocks]

Yes, that's my answer, too.

 

[TopGumby]

When did Sears sell a fur felt Fedora, model name "Pioneer"?