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[Captain O]

I saw Ray Collins in a darker wide-brimmed fedora and a lighter brim of the same size with a black grosgrain ribbon. Stetsons? Mallory? Dobbs? Biltmore?

Any clues, hints?

 

[moontheloon]

Even if there was a boom ... which there won't be... there are no companies to create competition... it would be a boom of mediocre fur felt hats.
... and custom hatters would not be able to handle any sort of "boom"
As we all know some of them are 9 months out with zero boom.
The quality Felt hoods of yesteryear are not coming back... that is why it is our responsibility to preserve what is left before it is all extinct ... if we don't then no one will ...
These will all be in costume shops and high school drama wardrobe chests getting treated like any old torn sport coat if we don't continue to pluck them and preserve


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[blueAZNmonkey]

Usually, I'm an optimist and a bit of a Pollyanna, but I'm afraid I'm pessimistic about this. It would take one heck of a change in fashion trends to move the market to the degree that such a "boom" would increase the desire to return to the quality the industry once provided.

The losses (or potential losses) at Borsalino and Barbisio are real trouble for the science and manufacture of fur felts. Even a significant pause in production from these providers means losing a wealth of institutional knowledge as workers and technicians move on to other vocations or retire outright. I just don't see there being much market for R&D investment by the producers, which is what would drive change/improvement.

I had the good fortune to spend a few months working in the USAF Clothing Office a couple of years ago. These folks are involved in finding new materials to meet the challenges of airmen and soldiers. There is much science to be had in studying and improving materials to address cold weather, wearability, seeking newer, lightweight materials, etc. I think the science can do it, I just don't think the market will support the science.

I worked with a fellow who had an advanced degree (I think Ph.D) in Textile Engineering from NCSU. Perhaps we could endow a chair in felt research to further the science of hatting?

I'll throw in $20.00. I'd go more but I have hats to buy.

In time, there may be a couple passionate and ridiculously wealthy people willing to pour their fun-money into researching and creating the best possible hats. If that ever happened, and the Loungers found out, I bet there would be a decent groundswell. I volunteer myself to be one of the happy few to one day become wealthy and start company number 1. I'll place my store right next to the Goorin's shop in downtown SD.

 

[Frunobulax]

Even if there was a boom ... which there won't be... there are no companies to create competition... it would be a boom of mediocre fur felt hats.
... and custom hatters would not be able to handle any sort of "boom"
As we all know some of them are 9 months out with zero boom.

If ,- if - such an increase in popularity created the market, somebody would ramp up production to meet the need.

But yeah, Dobbs vs. Stetson is just kissing your sister at this point.

The quality Felt hoods of yesteryear are not coming back... that is why it is our responsibility to preserve what is left before it is all extinct ... if we don't then no one will ...
These will all be in costume shops and high school drama wardrobe chests getting treated like any old torn sport coat if we don't continue to pluck them and preserve

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True dat.

In time, there may be a couple passionate and ridiculously wealthy people willing to pour their fun-money into researching and creating the best possible hats. If that ever happened, and the Loungers found out, I bet there would be a decent groundswell. I volunteer myself to be one of the happy few to one day become wealthy and start company number 1. I'll place my store right next to the Goorin's shop in downtown SD.

 

[Bob Roberts]

Even if there was a boom ... which there won't be... there are no companies to create competition... it would be a boom of mediocre fur felt hats.
... and custom hatters would not be able to handle any sort of "boom"
As we all know some of them are 9 months out with zero boom.
The quality Felt hoods of yesteryear are not coming back... that is why it is our responsibility to preserve what is left before it is all extinct ... if we don't then no one will ...
These will all be in costume shops and high school drama wardrobe chests getting treated like any old torn sport coat if we don't continue to pluck them and preserve


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The newly formed,
"Vintage Fedora Preservation Society"
is now accepting donations!
Contact # upon request.

 

[Frunobulax]

I saw Ray Collins in a darker wide-brimmed fedora and a lighter brim of the same size with a black grosgrain ribbon. Stetsons? Mallory? Dobbs? Biltmore?

Any clues, hints?

He was wearing Knox hats.

 

[Redfokker]

Even if there was a boom ... which there won't be... there are no companies to create competition... it would be a boom of mediocre fur felt hats.
... and custom hatters would not be able to handle any sort of "boom"
As we all know some of them are 9 months out with zero boom.
The quality Felt hoods of yesteryear are not coming back... that is why it is our responsibility to preserve what is left before it is all extinct ... if we don't then no one will ...
These will all be in costume shops and high school drama wardrobe chests getting treated like any old torn sport coat if we don't continue to pluck them and preserve


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Hear hear! This is where our efforts as collectors is so important. In the aquarium hobby there is a concerted movement to breed rare and endangered species of tropical fish in home aquariums. Another example of a "hobby" taken to a higher level. Now if we could only breed Whippets! The prices would be less astronomical.

 

[Frunobulax]

In the aquarium hobby there is a concerted movement to breed rare and endangered species of tropical fish in home aquariums.

Sounds like a plot for a Michael Crichton novel where the fish escape and eat people.

 

[moontheloon]

The newly formed,
"Vintage Fedora Preservation Society"
is now accepting donations!
Contact # upon request.

bro we are the preservation society ... no doubt

guys like Jim, Alan, Vic, 40cal, Eric, Harv, Matt, Rick,Perry, moe, David, Michael (gdurand) and all the other Michaels and all the guys ... that is a damn preservation society...

hell, Steve is a walking museum !!!

we are supplying a service to the future by all possessing our own personal museums ... now most of those guys do not look at their hats as "personal museums" or even collections at all ... they indeed are personal museums

I believe in my heart that we are preserving history ... even if that is not our intent at all

 

[FedOregon]

It wasn't banned for health purposes, per se, but because the mercury was needed for WWII weapons production.

And no modern mfg uses the mercury fulminate for priming compound anymore, either. And that also wasn't banned for health concerns, but because the resulting priming compound was really corrosive on small arms barrels. Now they use, for the most part, a lead styphnate based priming compound.... which is hazardous to your health because of the lead.

Like you said, I think it depends more on the demand for a certain quality attained by the more expensive process.

 

[Bob Roberts]

bro we are the preservation society ... no doubt

guys like Jim, Alan, Vic, 40cal, Eric, Harv, Matt, Rick,Perry, moe, David, Michael (gdurand) and all the other Michaels and all the guys ... that is a damn preservation society...

hell, Steve is a walking museum !!!

we are supplying a service to the future by all possessing our own personal museums ... now most of those guys do not look at their hats as "personal museums" or even collections at all ... they indeed are personal museums

I believe in my heart that we are preserving history ... even if that is not our intent at all

...and it CERTAINLY justifies spending ridiculous amounts of money on hats. Its a nobel and important cause. Our motto:
"All for the Benefit of Hatkind."

 

[moontheloon]

...and it CERTAINLY justifies spending ridiculous amounts of money on hats. Its a nobel and important cause. Our motto:
"All for the Benefit of Hatkind."

yeah maybe all this soap box nonsense was just to make myself feel better ...



nah ... we are the VFPS

 

[Bob Roberts]

yeah maybe all this soap box nonsense was just to make myself feel better ...



nah ... we are the VFPS

Love it! Im laughing. It makes us all feel better and we should all be proud!

 

[Art Fawcett]

The quality Felt hoods of yesteryear are not coming back... that is why it is our responsibility to preserve what is left before it is all extinct ... if we don't then no one will ...
These will all be in costume shops and high school drama wardrobe chests getting treated like any old torn sport coat if we don't continue to pluck them and preserve


There is one aspect you are not considering Anthony. When the "new" felt ages, it becomes "Vintage" felt. Although I have nothing but anecdotal evidence, I believe that felt continues to felt itself over time simply with changes in the weather and thus gets denser over time. At some point it becomes as dense as possible and "dies". This is the point that I believe most vintage felts are today, IF they are over 40 yrs old. Of course, how they are finished today will result in varying degrees of quality tomorrow so there is that caveat. Have heart, wait 40 yrs and there will be a rebirth of "vintage" felts

 

[moontheloon]

The quality Felt hoods of yesteryear are not coming back... that is why it is our responsibility to preserve what is left before it is all extinct ... if we don't then no one will ...
These will all be in costume shops and high school drama wardrobe chests getting treated like any old torn sport coat if we don't continue to pluck them and preserve


There is one aspect you are not considering Anthony. When the "new" felt ages, it becomes "Vintage" felt. Although I have nothing but anecdotal evidence, I believe that felt continues to felt itself over time simply with changes in the weather and thus gets denser over time. At some point it becomes as dense as possible and "dies". This is the point that I believe most vintage felts are today, IF they are over 40 yrs old. Of course, how they are finished today will result in varying degrees of quality tomorrow so there is that caveat. Have heart, wait 40 yrs and there will be a rebirth of "vintage" felts

no doubt the new felts will change over time ... but they were never what the old felts were from the beginning ... very different process

 

[Art Fawcett]

Aside from chemicals used, what do you see as different ? I've been to felting plants where everything, equipment , system, is the same as 100 yrs ago. It's possible they have cut down on the number of times the felt goes through the rollers (35 times) current. The only thing I can speculate on is the quality of the raw fur used. Fill me in

 

[Ken David]

Curious, Captain. Do you own or have you handled many vintage fedoras? That is, say, pre-1960, preferably, pre-1955? Have you ever handled a real vintage Whippet?

Because you really must to understand the differences in quality, materials, and construction Moon is referring to. Even our most talented and meticulous custom hatters can only approximate what was being made back when the competition was fierce and the demand was high. And the further back you go, the better they get. A 30s, 40s product is a quantum level above a 1950s hat.

This may be a stupid question since I am still learning. The only real vintage hat I have and have held is my pre 30s select stetson. Would this hat be a good candidate to compare felts to the couple moderns and 2nd hand customs I have in my modest collection? If so I think I am starting to understand why vintage pre 50's hats are so sort after!!! Unfortunately no matter how much time I spend coming the local antique malls, thrift shops and the like I have yet to really come across anything that remotely compares to any of the vintage gems on this forum (I won't even mention ebay and etsy which is so competitive) is why I have pretty much given up the pursuit of vintage and concentrate on moderns and customs.

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[moontheloon]

Aside from chemicals used, what do you see as different ? I've been to felting plants where everything, equipment , system, is the same as 100 yrs ago. It's possible they have cut down on the number of times the felt goes through the rollers (35 times) current. The only thing I can speculate on is the quality of the raw fur used. Fill me in

I stand corrected then
but I was told directly by a former employee of Stetson that there were several steps to the process that have been removed from the felting of their hoods during his time there due to cost and time... and that the demand for felt hoods just does not meet the man power and time that it would take to continue the old process.
he also said that the blends of fur is far weaker than it was

 

[FedOregon]

I don't have any pre-50's hats yet, but the felt on the late 50's Royal Stetson is head and shoulders above all others in my collection. There are similar aspects from the custom pure beaver felt hats I own, but nothing as light, thin-but-dense, and a super velvety hand. I just love it.

It's encouraging to think maybe some of my customs may attain that kind of felt "growth" over the next 40 years or so...

 

[blueAZNmonkey]

Aside from chemicals used, what do you see as different ? I've been to felting plants where everything, equipment , system, is the same as 100 yrs ago. It's possible they have cut down on the number of times the felt goes through the rollers (35 times) current. The only thing I can speculate on is the quality of the raw fur used. Fill me in

Very interesting!... I really don't know why but definitely the pre-'55 hats I've got just feel so much smoother, lighter (but still full), and more malleable than my modern pieces.