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[belfastboy]

Thanks all for the answers!

I thought about trying to respond to each individual but felt like I might end up repeating myself.

I tried to make this clear in my rather lengthy exposition, but perhaps was too muddled in my writing: I am totally aware that neither of these hats are top end. As I mentioned, I am excited to try the custom route, but since I have an immediate need, I need to make do with a compromise hat for the time being. A vintage hat would be an exciting find, but without having much experience with a fur felt hat at all it seems hard to judge the value/quality of something 50-90 years old that you can't see before buying. As you all have said, high quality hats at reasonable prices is sort of a thing of the past, but I can't help but feel that at around $200 you should be able to get something that is serviceable. To me that means something that looks good, feels good, and won't fall apart in a few years or after being exposed to the elements.

I don't think it's snobbery to say that there is a hierarchy of hat manufacture, in that you should generally stay away from sizes that are listed as S/M/L etc, wool is at the bottom, then wool felt, then fur felt, with rabbit being generally the lower level fur hat and beaver being better (and some other interesting furs thrown in occasionally such as nutria and the like). Custom is better than RTW, and there are differing levels for both.

But I feel like as someone reading a bunch of threads and stickies on this forum there doesn't seem to be much information in the way of what makes something quality vs not, beyond saying you just don't like a hat or hat manufacturer and bemoaning the fact that current production hats aren't up to snuff of vintage hats. It seems reasonable to me that if people are scared off of buying current production hats at a more entry/mid level than the more reputable hat makers will have no reason to offer them anymore and you'll either have the cheapo Chinese products or high end bespoke.

I think my fear over the Selentino is that it is not as widely sold as Stetson and there's very little information about the brand, and then when I read a bunch of negative things about them from Deadlyhandsome it made me worried that I had chosen poorly and that perhaps it was a poor value or would fall apart. And Akubra was mentioned time and time again as a best bang for your buck starter hat, so I figured I should check that out as well.

I guess I'm back to where I was when I started, which is to do what Glider and Jared suggested and just keep the one I like and enjoy it, and then pick up a custom hat or 3 as I need.

The answer to your question is that it is difficult to give an definitive answer. The only real way to find out is unfortunately buy it and experience the hat. I have strong bias against modern production hats (with a few exceptions).....to me they are overpriced and not good value and that stretches across all brands that I have come across. Even more true for the expensive modern Borsalinos. My one exception to this rule is Akubra. To me if you buy one on sale direct from Australia the price to quality ratio is in great balance. Good looking well made hats at a very decent price and they wear so well. I have never bought an that disappointed me and I have some 20+ years old.

I stay out of the vintage market as I agree with you it is difficult (and I lack the patience for the hunt) to discern quality and value over the internet. My vintage is restricted to buying from sources that I know and trust (mostly here in the Lounge). I have made too many 'mistakes' and wasted money on vintage hats that arrived and turned out to be crap.

Wear the hat you bought if you like the look. Put it through its paces and discover what you like about it, what works and what doesn't. Consider it part of your learning process in the world of hats.....and enjoy the process. Even if you make a mistake in your purchase it is not a 'mistake' if you learn something in the process.

 

[blewnote]

A Selentino Sterling was my first fur felt hat purchase - I bought it new at Batsakes in Cincinnati. I think it's a pretty nice hat, though my tastes in dimensions and style have changed and I don't really wear it any more. I think I paid $165.00 for it several years ago. I still have it.

As far as "what is quality?" You're talking with folks who have had probably a few hundred hats pass through their hands and have a different perspective - sometimes it's hard to communicate our ideas in such cases.

When people here talk of "quality felt," they're referring to the consistency, density, and finish of a hat. Highly prized in dress hats are the dense, easily moldable vintage felts. You can find an approximation of this in customs, but even my customs can be outshone by what were "average" quality hats pre-1960, so a new Stetson, Akubra, etc. will rarely live up to that expectation.

Build quality is exactly what is sounds like. Are the components and workmanship of quality? Many modern production hats get knocked for this, namely Stetson.

Finish ("hand") is another important quality. In the past, hats would be finished variously, including suede finishes, peluche, and many others. Such was the advantage of having a more diverse market to service. Such things are rare these days. A smooth hand is desirable, even in a western or outback hat.

So until you get your feet wet with a few vintages, it may escape you what we are referring to. As far as modern, off-the-rack hats, Stetson has some nice things out there, but I wouldn't buy anything lower than Royal Deluxe quality. I have a few Royal Deluxe, and one Excellent modern Stetsons and I like them quite well. Akubra is recognized as a good, durable, and attractive hat that is affordable, and I agree. Mayser still makes a decent hat, and though Borsalino quality has declined a bit, they do as well.

Hope that helps a bit.

Who are you touring with?

Maybe that's what I needed to hear! Perhaps someone should sticky something to this effect in the guides section, it may help some other people looking to get into a better hat than you'd find in a cheap souvenir shop.

I'm touring with the Squirrel Nut Zippers. Still have one of the original frontmen, Jimbo Mathus, leading the charge, and the original drummer does tour management backend stuff, but it's otherwise an all new band since 2016. We've put out 2 new albums that I think are pretty good and the live show is rockin. We still play the hits but also bring in the newer material and I feel like it has been well received by old and new fans alike. It's a fun show and I recommend coming out if we pass your way.

Thanks again for your insight, am happy to join y'all here.

 

[blewnote]

The answer to your question is that it is difficult to give an definitive answer. The only real way to find out is unfortunately buy it and experience the hat. I have strong bias against modern production hats (with a few exceptions).....to me they are overpriced and not good value and that stretches across all brands that I have come across. Even more true for the expensive modern Borsalinos. My one exception to this rule is Akubra. To me if you buy one on sale direct from Australia the price to quality ratio is in great balance. Good looking well made hats at a very decent price and they wear so well. I have never bought an that disappointed me and I have some 20+ years old.

I stay out of the vintage market as I agree with you it is difficult (and I lack the patience for the hunt) to discern quality and value over the internet. My vintage is restricted to buying from sources that I know and trust (mostly here in the Lounge). I have made too many 'mistakes' and wasted money on vintage hats that arrived and turned out to be crap.

Wear the hat you bought if you like the look. Put it through its paces and discover what you like about it, what works and what doesn't. Consider it part of your learning process in the world of hats.....and enjoy the process. Even if you make a mistake in your purchase it is not a 'mistake' if you learn something in the process.

As I said to Fruno, maybe that's what I needed to hear. Thanks for the good answer. =)

 

[AbbaDatDeHat]

Thanks all for the answers!

I thought about trying to respond to each individual but felt like I might end up repeating myself.

I tried to make this clear in my rather lengthy exposition, but perhaps was too muddled in my writing: I am totally aware that neither of these hats are top end. As I mentioned, I am excited to try the custom route, but since I have an immediate need, I need to make do with a compromise hat for the time being. A vintage hat would be an exciting find, but without having much experience with a fur felt hat at all it seems hard to judge the value/quality of something 50-90 years old that you can't see before buying. As you all have said, high quality hats at reasonable prices is sort of a thing of the past, but I can't help but feel that at around $200 you should be able to get something that is serviceable. To me that means something that looks good, feels good, and won't fall apart in a few years or after being exposed to the elements.

I don't think it's snobbery to say that there is a hierarchy of hat manufacture, in that you should generally stay away from sizes that are listed as S/M/L etc, wool is at the bottom, then wool felt, then fur felt, with rabbit being generally the lower level fur hat and beaver being better (and some other interesting furs thrown in occasionally such as nutria and the like). Custom is better than RTW, and there are differing levels for both.

But I feel like as someone reading a bunch of threads and stickies on this forum there doesn't seem to be much information in the way of what makes something quality vs not, beyond saying you just don't like a hat or hat manufacturer and bemoaning the fact that current production hats aren't up to snuff of vintage hats. It seems reasonable to me that if people are scared off of buying current production hats at a more entry/mid level than the more reputable hat makers will have no reason to offer them anymore and you'll either have the cheapo Chinese products or high end bespoke.

I think my fear over the Selentino is that it is not as widely sold as Stetson and there's very little information about the brand, and then when I read a bunch of negative things about them from Deadlyhandsome it made me worried that I had chosen poorly and that perhaps it was a poor value or would fall apart. And Akubra was mentioned time and time again as a best bang for your buck starter hat, so I figured I should check that out as well.

I guess I'm back to where I was when I started, which is to do what Glider and Jared suggested and just keep the one I like and enjoy it, and then pick up a custom hat or 3 as I need.

Back where you started...welcome to the cyclic hat world.
Takes awhile and a bunch of hats to break out of that.
We ALL wish our first hat cycle to be “just know” hats but usually start with “serviceable” and persevere unto “knowing” quality based on feel . Tangible feel description is elusive at best and biased by personal preference with differing styles.
“Just know” cowboy hat description can be totally different then classic fedora.
Needing/wanting a hat NOW changes and limits options.
I think you’ll be just fine on stage with whatever hat. You have time to Lounge and learn, as you are now.
Welcome and good luck.
B
Ps: $200 can get you a hella nice “just know” hat on ebay or the classifieds with a little patience.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

See this is what is so confusing for a newb. You say that you like vintage felt because it is not too stiff, but think the Akubra (which has very stiff felt) is a clear winner over the Selentino (which has a softer feeling felt).

What about the components of the Selentino do you dislike? Can you reblock a hat? Is that similar to rebashing a hat, which it seems you can do even for ones with a factory bash? If you can reblock/rebash a hat what does it really matter what the shape was when you bought it? If it's really just a matter of shape, then it's not that the Selentino is a bad hat it's just that you don't like the shape/proportions?

As I said earlier, not all Akubras are the same. I have Akubra Campdrafts that are buttery soft and I have Campdrafts that are stiff and cardboard feeling. The stiff hats mellow and soften over time. One of the things I really like about the Akubra felt hats I own is they came open crown and blocked in a shape I liked. Yes, you can re-block hats, but the Selentino would lose a lot of brim width if re-flocked to a shape I like and the expense of re-blocking, re-sewing in the sweatband, and shipping easily adds $100+ to the cost of the hat.

I’m a bargain hunter. I looked for ways to get what I wanted on the cheap: I ordered custom hats from D’aquino, Agnoulita (who uses Tonak rabbit fur felt), Staker, and others. I wanted a great hat without having to pay the price. In the end I found that you just can’t get there on the cheap. Some of my cheap custom hats are decent and I wear and like them, but they are not close to the quality of a good vintage hat or a more expensive custom hat.

Have you looked at other Selentino models? The queen, King, Galaxy, and others have all impressed me more than the Sterling.

I hunt for vintage hats in part because that’s a market where you really can find real bargains on exceptional hats. Once I experience a really good hat from the early 1950s or earlier I had a hard time spending money on modern production hats. Once I found that I could have a custom hat made for me for nominally more I gave up on most new mass-produced hats.

I have a soft spot for some of the very hats I’ve been disparaging. I own several Resistol and Stetson western hats made during the dark years where quality wasn’t great. However, I liked the blocking (I’ve reshaped most all of them) and the price was right. $50 for a 1978 Resistol 4X Beaver western isn’t hard to swallow. However, I haven’t had the same experience with dress hats of the same era. I’d rather save my money for an older vintage hat or a custom. I really wish Stetson, Tonak, Dobbs, etc. we’re still making great hats but to my way of thinking they just aren’t. Akubra hats aren’t great either, but for the price they are usually better than anything else new out there. Put it this way, as my collection has grown and my taste have become more refined I have sold off my Selentino hats but I still own several Akubra’s. YMMV.

 

[Frunobulax]

Maybe that's what I needed to hear! Perhaps someone should sticky something to this effect in the guides section, it may help some other people looking to get into a better hat than you'd find in a cheap souvenir shop.

I'm touring with the Squirrel Nut Zippers. Still have one of the original frontmen, Jimbo Mathus, leading the charge, and the original drummer does tour management backend stuff, but it's otherwise an all new band since 2016. We've put out 2 new albums that I think are pretty good and the live show is rockin. We still play the hits but also bring in the newer material and I feel like it has been well received by old and new fans alike. It's a fun show and I recommend coming out if we pass your way.

Thanks again for your insight, am happy to join y'all here.

Well, I see you're in Cincinnati in December. Drop me a line (I'm in Dayton) and I can toss some hats in the car, drive down and give you some hands-on experience. But you might have to buy me lunch.

 

[AbbaDatDeHat]

Well, I see you're in Cincinnati in December. Drop me a line (I'm in Dayton) and I can toss some hats in the car, drive down and give you some hands-on experience. But you might have to buy me lunch.

Generous offer!!
The Lounge at it’s best.
And throw in a T-shirt.
B

 

[Frunobulax]

Generous offer!!
The Lounge at it’s best.
And throw in a T-shirt.
B

I was going to ask for tix, but I think I may be going to a wedding that day.

 

[belfastboy]

I have had to face some harsh realities and accept that...size does matter. With a new appreciation for vintage hats, I bid on and won a couple of ebay auctions and find myself with hats that are not comfortable to wear. I did order a cheap hat stretcher, and have done some reading about the process. Correct me if I am wrong about these next statements, as I do not to have false beliefs...The leather sweatband is what I need to be MOST careful with when stretching a hat as it is more fragile. Over time leather dries out and shrinks naturally but mink oil CAN help make it more pliable and softer but does NOT help when stretching...or does it help some but not enough to matter....I question my reasoning here. A hat with a tight fit is chosen to be worn LESS often than compared to one too large...if ever at all...might be more a personal preference. Do you often/sometimes/never choose to wear one of your hats with a tight fit over the more comfortable? Why?

An even slightly too small hat gives me headaches so no don't wear them because they hurt my head. If I err it is on the too big side as putting shims inside the sweat band takes up enough to bring the hat to my size.

Stretching a hat is tricky business. Yes, it is the sweat that needs to stretch but a hat can only be stretch a very small amount and the leather tends to revert to its original size. If you stretch a hat too much you risk distorting the brim and crown. By attempting to stretch a hat a large amount what you are really attempting is to rebuild the hat but in reverse order and it rarely ends up satisfactorily. The only true way to upsize a hat is to tear it down ..back to just the felt and start all over blocking the felt on a larger sized block.

 

[Zombie_61]

First, let me take advantage of the moment and welcome you to The Lounge! Okay, on to the fun stuff.

Ok hat enthusiasts... here's my question: How do you tell a quality fur hat?

Let's approach this question from a very different perspective. You're a musician. If you've mentioned which instrument you play I've forgotten and I apologize for that, so for the moment let us assume you're a guitarist. How do you tell a "quality" guitar? Lots of components to be examined, aren't there? Is the neck securely attached to the body? Are the tuning keys nice and tight, or do the strings go out of tune the moment you touch them? Are there frets missing? Are the bridge and saddle secure? How does it sound? How does it feel in your hands? Is it easy to play the chords, or is the neck too wide/narrow? Is the devil in the details, or do you throw all of that out the window and just go with your gut, that instinct that tells you that this is the guitar for you even if it's likely to completely fall apart in the middle of your next set?

Yes Sir, evaluating a hat is pretty much the same thing. The one "rule" that doesn't change is that it's always better to examine a hat you're considering in person so you can give it a good evaluation--try it on, see how it feels in your hand, and so on. Other than that...it's up to you to figure out what you do and don't like about a hat. Now, I could see a hat you're wearing and maybe I like it, maybe I don't. Doesn't matter, 'cause it's not my hat. It's your hat. If you like it, that's what matters. Some here like Akubra hats, some don't. I'm in the "like" camp because I believe they're reasonably priced for what you get; good value for your money. But I also acknowledge they're "working class" level hats--perhaps not quite "polished" enough for The Opera, but good enough to wear while doing the blue collar things I do. And I understand not wanting to feel as if you've been "cheated" by paying too much for a hat, but try not to get hung up on that. If you're okay with whatever you've paid for a hat, what does it matter that maybe the next guy finagled his way into a slightly better deal? Maybe his hat wasn't as good as yours and they gave him the deal just to get rid of it.

All of that being said, keep asking questions until you're satisfied with the answers because that will save you some time and money. But please understand there might not be a definitive answer to your question(s).

 

[blewnote]

Well, I see you're in Cincinnati in December. Drop me a line (I'm in Dayton) and I can toss some hats in the car, drive down and give you some hands-on experience. But you might have to buy me lunch.

Sadly, the touring life is much less glamorous than it sounds and there's a good chance we'll roll into Cinnci at 2 or 3, set up and soundcheck, have a little time to get dinner and then have to do the show. But we may be on a tour bus for that one, in which case we'll get there overnight and have all day to hang out. I'll get in touch when I know what's what.

 

[belfastboy]

I was going to ask for tix, but I think I may be going to a wedding that day.

If the bride & groom are that undecided I would hold off on buying an expensive gift. Like my mom said after receiving another wedding invite from one of her nephews...."I am so damn tired of buying gifts that last longer than the bloody marriages."

 

[blewnote]

First, let me take advantage of the moment and welcome you to The Lounge! Okay, on to the fun stuff.

Let's approach this question from a very different perspective. You're a musician. If you've mentioned which instrument you play I've forgotten and I apologize for that, so for the moment let us assume you're a guitarist. How do you tell a "quality" guitar? Lots of components to be examined, aren't there? Is the neck securely attached to the body? Are the tuning keys nice and tight, or do the strings go out of tune the moment you touch them? Are there frets missing? Are the bridge and saddle secure? How does it sound? How does it feel in your hands? Is it easy to play the chords, or is the neck too wide/narrow? Is the devil in the details, or do you throw all of that out the window and just go with your gut, that instinct that tells you that this is the guitar for you even if it's likely to completely fall apart in the middle of your next set?

Yes Sir, evaluating a hat is pretty much the same thing. The one "rule" that doesn't change is that it's always better to examine a hat you're considering in person so you can give it a good evaluation--try it on, see how it feels in your hand, and so on. Other than that...it's up to you to figure out what you do and don't like about a hat. Now, I could see a hat you're wearing and maybe I like it, maybe I don't. Doesn't matter, 'cause it's not my hat. It's your hat. If you like it, that's what matters. Some here like Akubra hats, some don't. I'm in the "like" camp because I believe they're reasonably priced for what you get; good value for your money. But I also acknowledge they're "working class" level hats--perhaps not quite "polished" enough for The Opera, but good enough to wear while doing the blue collar things I do. And I understand not wanting to feel as if you've been "cheated" by paying too much for a hat, but try not to get hung up on that. If you're okay with whatever you've paid for a hat, what does it matter that maybe the next guy finagled his way into a slightly better deal? Maybe his hat wasn't as good as yours and they gave him the deal just to get rid of it.

All of that being said, keep asking questions until you're satisfied with the answers because that will save you some time and money. But please understand there might not be a definitive answer to your question(s).

I can dig that. To continue the musician analogy though, if someone was asking for advice on buying a trumpet (my instrument) of professional quality, I could list a bunch of current manufacturers that would fit the bill handily and would encourage them to go try some of those in a store. If they're not quite as far a long but would like a quality horn, looking for one that has no major flaws on eBay would be a safe bet (still from the same list of manufacturers, just you can be less picky if you're just starting out and won't appreciate the subtle differences of each instrument). I would not recommend a particularly high priced or custom built horn because you can get decent quality without spending a fortune. I would not recommend searching for a vintage horn on eBay, although some of those are of fantastic pedigree and are wonderful instruments to play, but someone just starting out would have no idea how to evaluate the quality or value of a vintage horn. I also would not recommend buying a horn made in China or India

I think what I was finding frustrating about so much of the information here is the dismissive attitude towards anything that is not at the top of the scale... there should be room for both, and more encouragement of people starting out to get a decent, serviceable hat that isn't cheap crap but isn't custom or vintage and doesn't break the bank.

 

[belfastboy]

I can dig that. To continue the musician analogy though, if someone was asking for advice on buying a trumpet (my instrument) of professional quality, I could list a bunch of current manufacturers that would fit the bill handily and would encourage them to go try some of those in a store. If they're not quite as far a long but would like a quality horn, looking for one that has no major flaws on eBay would be a safe bet (still from the same list of manufacturers, just you can be less picky if you're just starting out and won't appreciate the subtle differences of each instrument). I would not recommend a particularly high priced or custom built horn because you can get decent quality without spending a fortune. I would not recommend searching for a vintage horn on eBay, although some of those are of fantastic pedigree and are wonderful instruments to play, but someone just starting out would have no idea how to evaluate the quality or value of a vintage horn. I also would not recommend buying a horn made in China or India

I think what I was finding frustrating about so much of the information here is the dismissive attitude towards anything that is not at the top of the scale... there should be room for both, and more encouragement of people starting out to get a decent, serviceable hat that isn't cheap crap but isn't custom or vintage and doesn't break the bank.

I would have to go back and reread the thread but I would swear there is lots of encouragement in this thread. A number of posters wrote positive reviews of Akubra and even of the Selentino. Asking for opinions online is akin to asking us to define the colour 'blue' for you. The correct answer just does not exist and like much of life the way forward is try it out, stumble, course correct and in the process discover what works for you.
And making it more difficult is the hat world is not static. I have an Akubra Stylemaster and its forerunner the Madison that are very soft, almost floppy and yet you say yours is very stiff. I have a blue grass green Akubra Campdraft that is medium soft and a silverbelly stiff as a board. Both yours and mine, same company, same model and yet it sounds like two very different hats.

 

[GuessWho...]

An even slightly too small hat gives me headaches so no don't wear them because they hurt my head. If I err it is on the too big side as putting shims inside the sweat band takes up enough to bring the hat to my size.

Stretching a hat is tricky business. Yes, it is the sweat that needs to stretch but a hat can only be stretch a very small amount and the leather tends to revert to its original size. If you stretch a hat too much you risk distorting the brim and crown. By attempting to stretch a hat a large amount what you are really attempting is to rebuild the hat but in reverse order and it rarely ends up satisfactorily. The only true way to upsize a hat is to tear it down ..back to just the felt and start all over blocking the felt on a larger sized block.

Do you know if that damages the finish the original milliner worked into the felt? I was thinking about taking the sweat out of a way too small Borsalino to resize in because the felt is so nice. I am getting an old pure beaver womens hat in order to practice with the felt first,, as I figured I could at least turn it into a "handcrafted" cloche as Christmas present for my mom.

 

[belfastboy]

Do you know if that damages the finish the original milliner worked into the felt? I was thinking about taking the sweat out of a way too small Borsalino to resize in because the felt is so nice. I am getting an old pure beaver womens hat in order to practice with the felt first,, as I figured I could at least turn it into a "handcrafted" cloche as Christmas present for my mom.

I am not totally sure of your question. Are you taking the sweat out of the Borsa with the intention of resizing the Borsa to something larger? Resizing is more than just resizing the sweat. The entire felt needs to be reblocked to the bigger size. So you would need to strip it back totally, remove sweat and the ribbon work. And it is almost impossible to do without a wooden block in the correct size and shape. In terms of the felt it is incredibly forgiving if it is good felt. I am just finishing a total refurbishment of a Stetson from 1930's...it looks great. On the downside I was reworking a vintage homburg for a friend and in the reblock the old felt just ripped all along the brim/crown break....it is now scrap.

 

[Zombie_61]

I can dig that. To continue the musician analogy though, if someone was asking for advice on buying a trumpet (my instrument) of professional quality, I could list a bunch of current manufacturers that would fit the bill handily and would encourage them to go try some of those in a store. If they're not quite as far a long but would like a quality horn, looking for one that has no major flaws on eBay would be a safe bet (still from the same list of manufacturers, just you can be less picky if you're just starting out and won't appreciate the subtle differences of each instrument). I would not recommend a particularly high priced or custom built horn because you can get decent quality without spending a fortune. I would not recommend searching for a vintage horn on eBay, although some of those are of fantastic pedigree and are wonderful instruments to play, but someone just starting out would have no idea how to evaluate the quality or value of a vintage horn. I also would not recommend buying a horn made in China or India...

See there? Quality trumpet or quality hat, there isn't much difference in the buying process. It's helpful if you know someone experienced with hats who has tastes similar to yours and can advise you, but even then there's a bit of a learning curve and you'll need to discover what you like/want and don't like/want in a hat if you don't know already. There are fewer hat manufacturers these days than there were in the past, but I don't know if that will be a help or a hindrance to you.

...I think what I was finding frustrating about so much of the information here is the dismissive attitude towards anything that is not at the top of the scale... there should be room for both, and more encouragement of people starting out to get a decent, serviceable hat that isn't cheap crap but isn't custom or vintage and doesn't break the bank.

If you don't like dismissive attitudes you definitely don't want to use the term "ball cap" around here. The thing is that many of the members here truly appreciate the better quality found in the hats of yesteryear, and are trying to dissuade new hat wearers from thinking the inexpensive Trilbies on the shelves at Target are good hats. Again, nothing wrong with them if that's what someone likes or is what they can afford, but there's unfortunately quite a bit of not-so-good between those Target Trilbies and high-end dress hats made by...well, I don't know who makes them 'cause I can't afford 'em, but I'm sure you get the point I'm trying to make. The members don't want someone to waste their time and money on a poorly made hat and walk away thinking that's the state of the industry these days.

And I agree with you--there should be room here for everyone regardless of their tastes and budgets, but I think they've tried that in the past and some of the people who came here looking for information didn't quite understand the theme of this forum and/or the fact that we try to be far more civil than most other forum websites, so there were...problems.

 

[blewnote]

I would have to go back and reread the thread but I would swear there is lots of encouragement in this thread. A number of posters wrote positive reviews of Akubra and even of the Selentino. Asking for opinions online is akin to asking us to define the colour 'blue' for you. The correct answer just does not exist and like much of life the way forward is try it out, stumble, course correct and in the process discover what works for you.
And making it more difficult is the hat world is not static. I have an Akubra Stylemaster and its forerunner the Madison that are very soft, almost floppy and yet you say yours is very stiff. I have a blue grass green Akubra Campdraft that is medium soft and a silverbelly stiff as a board. Both yours and mine, same company, same model and yet it sounds like two very different hats.

Please don't misunderstand me, there were great responses to my queries! And I feel like I did learn about things to look for. I was referencing all the reading I did before I joined the discussion myself. I didn't want to ask a "dumb" question or one that had been asked a gazillion times before, so I spent the better part of the last 2 weeks perusing old threads and exploring the forums trying to learn what brands are reputable and what to look for when shopping for a hat. It's rather overwhelming! There are over 1200 pages to this thread alone for example. My experience left me feeling like there was no good "Start Here" kind of thread offering sensible suggestions for currently available hats, beyond the multitudinous posts supporting the Akubra Stylemaster/Fedora/Fed IV/Campdraft/et al, and a lesser number of posts suggesting that the current Stetsons are fine as well.

As a newcomer, I was trying to suggest that there might be a place for something like that to help other newcomers and encourage them to try what is available at their local hatter without being scared that they're getting an overpriced piece of junk.

With respect to your experiences with Akubra hats, that is good information to know about fur felt hats. Since this is my first fur felt I don't know what "normal" is. To hear that some are stiff and some are not and others start stiff and become pliable is good to know.

I think I said it earlier, but thanks to everyone who took time to explain their thoughts and impart their knowledge and experience. There were a lot of thoughtful and informative replies to my question!

 

[Frunobulax]

Sadly, the touring life is much less glamorous than it sounds and there's a good chance we'll roll into Cinnci at 2 or 3, set up and soundcheck, have a little time to get dinner and then have to do the show. But we may be on a tour bus for that one, in which case we'll get there overnight and have all day to hang out. I'll get in touch when I know what's what.

Well, the life of a Project Manager isn't exactly glamorous, either, but I've learned to make it sound pretty cool. Anyhoo, offer stands, unless there's a snow storm.

If the bride & groom are that undecided I would hold off on buying an expensive gift. Like my mom said after receiving another wedding invite from one of her nephews...."I am so damn tired of buying gifts that last longer than the bloody marriages."

Oh, there's no question the wedding will happen, I just couldn't remember the date. It's the 4th.

 

[belfastboy]

See there? Quality trumpet or quality hat, there isn't much difference in the buying process. It's helpful if you know someone experienced with hats who has tastes similar to yours and can advise you, but even then there's a bit of a learning curve and you'll need to discover what you like/want and don't like/want in a hat if you don't know already. There are fewer hat manufacturers these days than there were in the past, but I don't know if that will be a help or a hindrance to you.

If you don't like dismissive attitudes you definitely don't want to use the term "ball cap" around here. The thing is that many of the members here truly appreciate the better quality found in the hats of yesteryear, and are trying to dissuade new hat wearers from thinking the inexpensive Trilbies on the shelves at Target are good hats. Again, nothing wrong with them if that's what someone likes or is what they can afford, but there's unfortunately quite a bit of not-so-good between those Target Trilbies and high-end dress hats made by...well, I don't know who makes them 'cause I can't afford 'em, but I'm sure you get the point I'm trying to make. The members don't want someone to waste their time and money on a poorly made hat and walk away thinking that's the state of the industry these days.

And I agree with you--there should be room here for everyone regardless of their tastes and budgets, but I think they've tried that in the past and some of the people who came here looking for information didn't quite understand the theme of this forum and/or the fact that we try to be far more civil than most other forum websites, so there were...problems.

I have had on many occasions the thought of posting me in my ball cap in the What Hat Are You Wearing Today thread but I always jam out. But I do admit there are many days I can be caught wearing one of my many ball caps.