Army Airforce Enlisted Dress Uniform Circa Dec. 1941

[Gene]

So, wait, after all this criticism of my using an officer's coat to simulate an enlisted man, the Army Airforce did the exact same thing with surplus earlier model officers coats issued out to cadets?

Welllll yes and no. Cadets technically were enlisted, but it was kind of a limbo between enlisted and officer. They typically wore officer insignia of the "US" and prop and wings collar devices, but the biggest difference is the big patch on the lower sleeve. They also had a special cap device that was a large prop and wings.

Note the jacket with the cadet patch. Belts typically weren't worn with the cadet uniform, although I have seen belted examples.

 

[Stearmen]

Dress Jackets

but pretty much the only "uniform" coat was the one issued by the Army and available for purchase at the PX, but even THAT wasn't consistent due to different contracts with different makers.

I'm a little confused, are you saying that only dress uniforms worn during the war by AAF personnel were issue? Both officers and enlisted personal had dress uniforms custom made, though officers were far more common. I have had Pinks & Greens made in London, Paris, China, I even had one officer jacket made in my home town by Perkin Sheers, Colorado Springs, Colorado. Talk about a lot of shades of green! The officer jackets were issued to enlisted recruits up tell at least 1958, I have a few friend that were issued them, they really liked the material! And true Chocolate brown dress shirts are a deep rich brown, not very green, I think they stopped issuing them very early in the war, though I am sure some officers wore them tell the end. My local Sheriffs department still issues Chocolate brown shirts and Pink pants, very sharp looking!

 

[MPicciotto]

I'm a little confused, are you saying that only dress uniforms worn during the war by AAF personnel were issue? Both officers and enlisted personal had dress uniforms custom made, though officers were far more common. I have had Pinks & Greens made in London, Paris, China, I even had one officer jacket made in my home town by Perkin Sheers, Colorado Springs, Colorado. Talk about a lot of shades of green! The officer jackets were issued to enlisted recruits up tell at least 1958, I have a few friend that were issued them, they really liked the material! And true Chocolate brown dress shirts are a deep rich brown, not very green, I think they stopped issuing them very early in the war, though I am sure some officers wore them tell the end. My local Sheriffs department still issues Chocolate brown shirts and Pink pants, very sharp looking!

I have the reference some where. The QMC at some point began production of Officer's uniforms that could be PURCHASED by an Officer with his uniform stipend OR he could purchase them privately from any number of clothiers as long as it met the specifications laid out by the War Department.

As far as I know the khaki Class A uniforms did NOT have a difference between officer and enlisted.

Matt

 

[Gene]

I'm a little confused, are you saying that only dress uniforms worn during the war by AAF personnel were issue?

Haha no no no, I meant that as "uniformly-made," or consistent in weight, material, cut etc. sorry it was weirdly worded. Officer's uniforms were all over the place. Although the majority in my collection are tailored, I do have "off the rack" uniforms as well.

 

[1930artdeco]

I understand what 3pcsuit is trying to do, if you need something quick, cheap and for a one time use. However, a photographer would have been enlisted. If he was an AP reporter or similar civilian that is different. I think they wore officer grade uniforms without rank but they had patches that said who they were. Sorry, I am a stickler for trying to get things right with military uniforms-of course I am in the military so that may account for that.

Mike

 

[3PcSuit]

Again, what sort of price point are we talking about here?> It is far above and beyond anything I could have rented, and it fit, adn it was the right era.


I'm a photographer, but went as an army airforce aircraft mechanic, in honor of my maternal Grandfather, who served at Wheeler field and got a purple heart 7 Dec. 41.

Anyway, at least for the male participants, I was the hands down winner for authenticiity, but I probably spent 10x as much as anyone else there. . .

This is going to be a yearly event again, so I do want to get it perfect next time out, prolly in November of this year.

 

[MPicciotto]

Anyway, at least for the male participants, I was the hands down winner for authenticiity, but I probably spent 10x as much as anyone else there. . .

Didn't I read earlier that the uniform cost you 60 dollars? If you spent another 40 on other items to go with it your up to 100 and your telling us the other participants spent 10 bucks on their "costumes" Please tell me where they shop!! Ok, so that's being a bit sarcastic, I obviously missed where you spent money on some other items, such as the cap, that cap for a class A uniform can set you back more then the tunic and pants. If your looking for a cheap way to expand your uniform impression then here is my suggestion:

Go to Goodwill, The Salvation Army Family Store, Value Village or whatever it is and buy the following items:

Khaki pants: you're looking for later issue military khakis, Docker's K-1's or Dickies/Roebucks etc work pants (I've gotten all of the above at thrift shops and worn them to reenactments)
Khaki shirt: Again later issue military or a work shirt, even some police shirts work
brown, low quarter leather shoes: Cap toe preferred, all sorts of brands will pass the 5ft rule for what your doing.

Next go to the camping or surplus stores and find a khaki belt with a brass buckle

Now hit eBay for an Air Corps flat cap (blue and orange piping), the mechanic specialist patch, some T-5 chevrons and the AAF headquarters patch, a tie

At this point your uniform has cost you under a hundred bucks. If you did real well, under 60 bucks. That's a Class B, to jazz it up to a Class A you need a tunic. The Army continued using the khaki tunics for tropical location long after the chocolate and OD tunics had gone the way of the "Army Green" so again you can find a newer tunic that will match your needs. I'm a big boy and I need a size 48L tunic. One I bought off another reenactor for 60 dollars (the price he bought it for). Another I bought at an antique mall for 35.

Matt

 

[3PcSuit]

I concur with Phantomfixer's suggestion. I'd never recommend taking apart an original uniform, especially an officers. :eeek: You should be able to trade it in for an EM tunic.

Shop around ebay and you might find originals in your size cheaper than the repros. Especially when it comes to hats.

Also you'll need to find one of these pre-war GHQA patches:

Here's what to look for:
http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=33724&mode=threaded

Helpful Ref on another thread:
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?34489-Pre-WWII-Air-Corps-Uniform

Happy hunting!

- JB

I still am unsure this is correct. Did EVERYONE EVERYWHERE Army Air Corps wear these? I wasn't sure, despite finding the patch if it was just forh headquarters pre'42 and there were others or if everyone wore them pre-42 in the Army Air Corps.

What should I expect one of these patches to set me back? Where's a good place to get authentic or authentic repro. enlisted stripes? Even if I don't end up doing anything to the jacket, I will want one for the shirt.

 

[3PcSuit]

Khaki pants: you're looking for later issue military khakis, Docker's K-1's or Dickies/Roebucks etc work pants (I've gotten all of the above at thrift shops and worn them to reenactments)
Khaki shirt: Again later issue military or a work shirt, even some police shirts work
brown, low quarter leather shoes: Cap toe preferred, all sorts of brands will pass the 5ft rule for what your doing.

Next go to the camping or surplus stores and find a khaki belt with a brass buckle

Now hit eBay for an Air Corps flat cap (blue and orange piping), the mechanic specialist patch, some T-5 chevrons and the AAF headquarters patch, a tie

At this point your uniform has cost you under a hundred bucks. If you did real well, under 60 bucks. That's a Class B, to jazz it up to a Class A you need a tunic. The Army continued using the khaki tunics for tropical location long after the chocolate and OD tunics had gone the way of the "Army Green" so again you can find a newer tunic that will match your needs. I'm a big boy and I need a size 48L tunic. One I bought off another reenactor for 60 dollars (the price he bought it for). Another I bought at an antique mall for 35.

Matt

Matt, thanks for the detailed advice. Should there be some other mechanic specialist patch, not the HQ patch pre-42, or was that only afterwards?


I am exaggerating slightly, but not much when I said other people spent $10, some spent none, i.e. just a suit with a party vest they had lying around, or dresses the girls already had, but of those who just rented, it was definitely under $20. I probably spent the most out of the group.


While not authentic, I spent a tonne of time and $15 on a tie that was as close as I could find to matte black, although it was slik it didn't look it and it iddn't look like a GDed Donald Trump power tie with a hideous sheen.


Wht do you mean by 5 foot rule? Is that looking authentic from 5 feet or further? :-D

 

[MPicciotto]

Matt, thanks for the detailed advice. Should there be some other mechanic specialist patch, not the HQ patch pre-42, or was that only afterwards?

Wht do you mean by 5 foot rule? Is that looking authentic from 5 feet or further? :-D

The patch I'm referring to was worn on the cuff by ground crews, not sure when they became part of the uniform, they may be too new for your impression. Here is a radio repair version (like my Grandfather's)

http://cgi.ebay.com/WW2-ERA-US-ARMY...603?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43a676c9d3

The five foot rule is just that. You can make it a ten foot rule or a one yard rule. Whatever works for you. We use rules like that all the time in reenacting. For example my m1 carbine has an M2 stock. from 5ft away people won't know, particularly the public. Your shoes should have leather soles not rubber, but like your tie, they do the job if nobody looks to hard.

Matt

 

[3PcSuit]

Well, I am going out today in search of chevrons, insignia locally. Any advice for a surplus store or chain what to look for what to request?

I'm sure the current versions aren't correct, and I'll have to find the spinning propeller patch on eBay I'm sure.



What about an authentic-looking vintage service hat for an enlisted man prior to '41?

If I could have a list of all the buttons a 1-1/2 year aircraft mechanic'd be wearing in Summer of '41 stationed in Hawai'i, I'd appreciate it.


RIght now I need a pair of "U.S." Pins, a U.S> Button" a ribbon, a chevron for the shirt, for the jacket, a propellor patch, and maybe a mechanic band for the cuff?

Anyone have any advice for dying moth-eaten spots and holes for other ribbons insignia, decals?


ALso, where's a good place to get alterations done to get a real metal fourth, bottommost button, and an authentic '41 belt for the jacket rather than the cloth one I currently have with a bakelite bottom-most button?

 

[cco23i]

For an enlisted mechanic in Hawaii I would go with a 4 pocket with wool sewn on wool chevrons, US and AAF collar brass, depending on your rank it will depend on your service stripes, NO overseas bars, Get a garrison cap instead of a "wheel" cap as they are easier to deal with, get the "golden gear" and it goes on the right sleeve 4 inches up from the cuff bottom with the point facing down. Garrison capped toe boots, wool shirt with chevrons BLACK TIE as it is pre 41, mustard trousers (38 pattern). You can go with a "propped" chevron but I would just get an early war wool on wool.

Scott

 

[3PcSuit]

For an enlisted mechanic in Hawaii I would go with a 4 pocket with wool sewn on wool chevrons, US and AAF collar brass, depending on your rank it will depend on your service stripes, NO overseas bars, Get a garrison cap instead of a "wheel" cap as they are easier to deal with, get the "golden gear" and it goes on the right sleeve 4 inches up from the cuff bottom with the point facing down. Garrison capped toe boots, wool shirt with chevrons BLACK TIE as it is pre 41, mustard trousers (38 pattern). You can go with a "propped" chevron but I would just get an early war wool on wool.

Scott

Garrison Caps? Wool on wool? Could you please be less cryptic?

Was there any difference in chevrons, pins between army and army AF at this point in time ('41)?

 

[cco23i]

Garrison Caps? Wool on wool? Could you please be less cryptic?

Was there any difference in chevrons, pins between army and army AF at this point in time ('41)?

Sorry too many years collecting and doing living history.

Here is a "garrison cap" also known as an "overseas cap" You will need the pipping on the cap to be "Ultramarine blue and orange" for USAAF.

These are the collar devices also known as your "collar brass" These are EXACTLY what you need.

Here is a jacket with a "wool on wool" stripe, all it consists of is a BLACK wool back ground with an "olive drab" green stripes sewn on. I would go with a stripe of 3 upward striped and one lower stripe, also known as a staff sergeant stripe.

Scott

 

[cco23i]

I forgot, the "engineering" patch shown here in the upper right is placed centered on the stripes and 4 inches UP from the bottom of the sleeve on the RIGHT sleeve and faces POINT DOWN.

Scott

 

[cco23i]

Did this help explain things?

 

[3PcSuit]

It certainly did!


I have a few more questions I'm working on for you. Sorry no time now, am driving down to Charlotte tonight/tomorrow and have a bunch of work to get done. No time even for sleep at this point :-/

I blame Lady Gaga.

 

[cco23i]

No worries, Lady Ga Ga? sorry, I guess I mostly listen to big band stuff. I'll be here to answer.

Scott

 

[3PcSuit]

ANd, I guess I spent too much time here, because I was supposed to be out of state by now and I am still sitting at home.


Don't worry, Lady Gaga *paid me* quite well to be there. I also had the distinct pleasure of seeing another worker, who shall remain anonymous, SNAG a fifth of her huge stash of alcohol in the dressing room!

I was laughing too hard the rest of the time to mind it being 3:30 in the morning.



Anyway, I listen to big band too. But as far as my more modern tastes go, she's marginal, a Madonna rip-off. I like "Alejandro" but only because I have the memory of pulling an all-nighter to roll into Panavision New York for a workshop then another all-nighter to make it back for my sibling's graduation attached to it.

Could've been any other new song on the radio though.

Unfortunately, 91.5 has limited reception!



Getting back on track, I will probably NOT be taking that business trip today. Have some images of what I have, forgive their being in black and white now that the only suitable color product, Kodachrome, is discontinued ;-)

I'd appreciate your rating the working-version of the outfit.


Have been looking for those insignia on eBay. Can I just bypass all the BS there and go direct to one of the seller's 'stores. Is there anyone you can recommend Scott?

 

[cco23i]

None that I really use on a regular basis, most of the insignias I have AAF wise were all bought at militaria or gun shows. Drop me an email as soon as you get it all together and I will help ya' out.

Scott