Are there no hatters in Europe???

[milandro]

In the netherlands we have Sylvester Maria alias "Schaduwloper"
This is the link of his Instagram page: https://instagram.com/schaduwloper?igshid=t9y35t5c2fk7
Sylvester makes modern wide brim distressed hats.

Very nice stuff although I am not sure who is following whom, whether Nick Fouquet or Sylvester Maria alias “Schaduwloper”.
There seems to be quite a bit of co-inspiration ( co-inspire rather than conspire I’d speculate) among the two, perhaps I look at this only superficially but a quick look at the link you’ve given us above made me think about that/

I was looking around on line and indeed , probably the majority of the hatmakers in the Netherlands are catering for the Ladies’ market en not so much for the Gentlemen's. Sure , there are many more ladies wearing hats at formal and official gatherings, like budget day at the King’s speech or weddings (getting increasingly formal in the NL after years of informality), but even my wife , who’s not interested, has commented that the numbers of the hat wearers ( she isn’t) are on the increase lately.

On the fur felt quality I am not able to comment from a technical point of view but I simply don’t think that price of the raw fur is the dealbreaker ( I have checked on line and and prices are low https://trappingtoday.com/2019-fur-prices-fur-harvesters-march-2019-auction-results/ ) on the hats containing little precious furs.

What impacts profoundly the price of fur felt is labour costs of all the steps leading to a finished hat. The origin of the fur is only a part of the final price. Indeed take an Akubra, made of rabbit, a fur which is plentiful in many countries ( doesn’t need to be Australian rabbit), it isn’t what I would call cheap. At least in the NL they are sold at high prices from shops rivaling with hats containing good amounts of beaver, while they have none.

In the NL by the way we import, seasonally, from Chile large amounts of hares for consumption, so there has to be a source of reasonably priced hare's furs coming from there. But then add up all the other costs to produce the felt and there you go.

A member was so kind to provide me a link to download a book in the book there was an ad saying that you could be starting be equipped for the business with $75 which bought you the equivalent of $2000 these days, well, I don’t think that you ‘d buy the same amount of stuff, let alone paying rent , taxes and for energy at those levels back then.

If one would put as much time in making fur as they did then the labor costs (and not so much the materials) would rapidly making a hat cost more than most could ( or would ) afford (which is certainly true as it is already for most fur felts)

A hat maker was, generally speaking (like most other crafts) expecting to make a honest but modest living. I think that if one, these days, doesn’t target only the luxury market (this is why there are few to no shops left for affordable repairs) cannot survive.

 

[Edward]

A thought.... I do believe fashion has a lot to do with it - you'll not see new start-ups selling furfelt hats if there's no market. Equally, though, I suspect that the lack of opportunity to learn the skillset puts off a lot of people. As distinct from cap manufacturing, where we see a dozen new businesses selling vintage caps pop up with regularity not because it's any lesser a skill, but because there's much more opportunity to acquire it.

 

[milandro]

Well, I think that , on the wave of Nick Fouquet’s succes, many more will go into this craft.

Forbes , already 2 years ago, dedicated an article to the man and his success.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbes...nd-building-a-thriving-business/#78f381ce2550

An he has grown quickly into a large business . Borsalino asked him to make a Borsalino-Fouquet line, which in my book means that he is not doing badly at all, if one of the oldest and most famous brands in the business (1857) acknowledges the achievements of a self-taught new comer.

As for start ups, well, I run a search Start Up and Hatters and a few turned up.

Indeed the Dutch hatter quoted before

The this one

https://www.kansascityhatters.com

and of course

https://www.hornskovkobenhavn.com

hardly an avalanche but they are there, along with more established hat companies.

Of course the story may be different from country to country. In the Netherlands there are many courses and learning opportunities but as I wrote before, they are, by and large, targeted to the Milliner rather than the Gentlemen’s Hatter.

In any case here it goes, this is the Hatters “ union”
https://www.nederlandsehoedenvereniging.nl

These are all courses
https://www.nederlandsehoedenvereniging.nl/workshops


This is a list of shops to buy materials

https://www.nederlandsehoedenvereniging.nl/ontwerpers/materialenleveranciers

All of which, couldn’t exist if there wouldn’t be a living Hat scene.

 

[jlee562]

Well, I think that , on the wave of Nick Fouquet’s succes, many more will go into this craft.

Forbes , already 2 years ago, dedicated an article to the man and his success.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbes...nd-building-a-thriving-business/#78f381ce2550

An he has grown quickly into a large business . Borsalino asked him to make a Borsalino-Fouquet line, which in my book means that he is not doing badly at all, if one of the oldest and most famous brands in the business (1857) acknowledges the achievements of a self-taught new comer.

Or, one might look at it as company floundering financially and looking for a lifeline.

Fouquet is the face of a brand that is well marketed. Master hatter he is not.

Edit to add: looks like the Fouquet thread has been scrubbed? Can't find any record of it. But there's good reason to believe Fouquet is no hat making savant. Just a dude who aggressively marketed his products. His absurd matchstick trademark was initially denied, and then a while bunch of random blogs started writing articles about the "signature" matchstick, which he was then allowed to trademark because it became associated with his brand. But who is writing these write-ups? I'm gonna guess spon-con.

 

[Daniele Tanto]

They filed for bankruptcy protection not long after his line came out.

This is absolutely not true, I'm sorry.
I can understand your little appreciation for Foquet, certainly not my favorite hatter, but associating it with Borsalino and its complex financial events is a colossal mistake

 

[Bamaboots]

This is absolutely not true, I'm sorry.

No, Daniel, though I understand how it read that way, that was not what I meant. You needn't apologize. Of course I don't care for Fouquet's creations but I was making the association that Borsalino was facing Liquidation Court around the same time his line came out with them, or so I remembered. I do understand, from your posts of Borsalino history, that their financial woes started long before any association with Fouquet.

 

[milandro]

Regardless whether Foquet is or not a master hatter , which is not the reason why I mentioned him, he has put a lot of yeast in the brew, the wheels of public awareness have been put into motion about hats outside of the traditional boundaries and the ripples which he caused (for better or worse) will benefit the hat culture in general. I don’t think that that many articles were witten about hatmakers in recent times as the ones written about him. Regardless.

 

[Pellie]

We also have hatter Oddchap in europe. He's from France.
Here's the link of his instagram page.
https://instagram.com/oddchap?igshid=19gvlj9ptmyip

 

[steur]

Well, I think that , on the wave of Nick Fouquet’s succes, many more will go into this craft.

Forbes , already 2 years ago, dedicated an article to the man and his success.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbes...nd-building-a-thriving-business/#78f381ce2550

An he has grown quickly into a large business . Borsalino asked him to make a Borsalino-Fouquet line, which in my book means that he is not doing badly at all, if one of the oldest and most famous brands in the business (1857) acknowledges the achievements of a self-taught new comer.

As for start ups, well, I run a search Start Up and Hatters and a few turned up.

Indeed the Dutch hatter quoted before

The this one

https://www.kansascityhatters.com

and of course

https://www.hornskovkobenhavn.com

hardly an avalanche but they are there, along with more established hat companies.

Of course the story may be different from country to country. In the Netherlands there are many courses and learning opportunities but as I wrote before, they are, by and large, targeted to the Milliner rather than the Gentlemen’s Hatter.

In any case here it goes, this is the Hatters “ union”
https://www.nederlandsehoedenvereniging.nl

These are all courses
https://www.nederlandsehoedenvereniging.nl/workshops


This is a list of shops to buy materials

https://www.nederlandsehoedenvereniging.nl/ontwerpers/materialenleveranciers

All of which, couldn’t exist if there wouldn’t be a living Hat scene.

The way you describe it everything is in place for a hatter to begin. Everything is not as it seems though: the courses mainly if not exclusively cater for milliners and I don't think they either know or care how a men's hat is properly done. The Nederlandse Hoedenvereniging seems to be in a deep slumber, because they never seem to react to any e-mails I've sent them in the past asking for a men's hatter. Or more likely because they didn't know of any. The ones I did manage to find have a hard time of sourcing the right materials (ribbons are expecially tough to find it seems). There is a market for men's hatters in Holland, but it is very small indeed and probably not large enough to sustain a number of fulltime hatters.

 

[Pellie]

Maybe i should start making hats in the netherlands....

 

[PanosChris]

We also have hatter Oddchap in europe. He's from France.
Here's the link of his instagram page.
https://instagram.com/oddchap?igshid=19gvlj9ptmyip

Thanks for the links Pellie. Not sure if mentioned before but in Scandinavia and in addition to Mikael (Hufvud) and Peter (Hornskov) we also have Jesper in Stockholm
https://instagram.com/jchstockholm?igshid=1snjzlfhyg7e2

And Haga hats here in Oslo
https://instagram.com/hagahats?igshid=1q1c0ls07oteq

 

[steur]

Maybe i should start making hats in the netherlands....

Maybe you should. It's harder than it looks though. The basics are easy enough, but to make a really fine hat requires a lot of knowledge, skill and experience. There's a reason why we still marvel here every day at those vintage hats and the craftsmanship that went into making them.

 

[Pellie]

Thanks for the links Pellie. Not sure if mentioned before but in Scandinavia and in addition to Mikael (Hufvud) and Peter (Hornskov) we also have Jesper in Stockholm
https://instagram.com/jchstockholm?igshid=1snjzlfhyg7e2

And Haga hats here in Oslo
https://instagram.com/hagahats?igshid=1q1c0ls07oteq

Yes, i both follow them on IG. Thanks for mentioning.

 

[Pellie]

Maybe you should. It's harder than it looks though. The basics are easy enough, but to make a really fine hat requires a lot of knowledge, skill and experience. There's a reason why we still marvel here every day at those vintage hats and the craftsmanship that went into making them.

I was only kidding. I love to wear them, not to make them haha

 

[Pellie]

I will make my order by Oddchap hatter tomorrow i think. At that time, i have 3 customhats in order. Hornskov, Hufvud and Oddchap. Maybe a little too much, but hey... you only live ones, and i sell some whisky for it

 

[milandro]

What I wrote may have escaped your attention (I have quoted for that purpose myself) I said precisely the same thing. I’ve also said in another post somewhere that the reason is that Milliners can count on a growing awareness for Ladies to use hats in formal and official gatherings, or even hat clubs (like the red hats society) where few would show up with a cheap, factory made, H&M hat.

http://www.rodehoeden.nl

while there aren't too many Gentlemen wearing a hat at a wedding for example. So , I am optimist but am not seeing things through pink glasses , and I think that, despite things being still rather slow, there is an detectable improvement, nevertheless.

In the Netherlands there are many courses and learning opportunities but as I wrote before, they are, by and large, targeted to the Milliner rather than the Gentlemen’s Hatter.
.

The way you describe it everything is in place for a hatter to begin. Everything is not as it seems though: the courses mainly if not exclusively cater for milliners /QUOTE]

 

[milandro]

Maybe i should start making hats in the netherlands....

Maybe you should. It's harder than it looks though. The basics are easy enough, but to make a really fine hat requires a lot of knowledge, skill and experience. There's a reason why we still marvel here every day at those vintage hats and the craftsmanship that went into making them.

Actually I was toying with this idea too. I understand that the craft is difficult (like most crafts really, I have been a professional photographer for over 30 years and I know all too well that what looks easy from the outside isn’t all that easy from inside...) and that it not something that one could do in one day, yet, besides an certain amount of equipment needed (which even if kept slim, is a considerable investment) one would need to gain some experience at a shop not only a workshop which is lasting few weeks and few hours a week.

You can source NEW or secondhand machinery in Italy (for example)

http://www.giuseppemichelagnoli.com/indexEn.html#company

“..Felt Hood Stretcher - Felt Hood Lengthner - Steamer - Pouncing Machine - Fringing Machine - Felt blocking Machine - Decatising Machine/Plating Machine - Brim stretching machine - Veluring Machine - Stiffening Machine Hardening machine - Hood blocking machine - Pedal press to shape hats from flat material - Oil Pedal press suitablo for high pressure- Foot oprating Pedal press - Thermo Machine...."

But they are really expensive and would require more than a simple corner in a house.


There seems to be a lot of growth in the caps industry. Lots of machinery is available on line. Similarly, machines are available, for both hats and caps, made in China or Taiwan. Some of these companies offer also training courses.

There is no doubt that the industrial production is a different thing than the handcraft though .

In Italy (I speak several languages and Italian is my mother tongue) there have been recently courses for Hatmakers (AND Milliners) I could attend one of those (but I would have to spend few months somewhere very far...)

http://juliaservice.com/corsi/operatore-addetto-alla-realizzazione-di-cappelli/


I found this video (in Italian) about block and hat making

 

[Daniele Tanto]

Actually I was toying with this idea too. I understand that the craft is difficult (like most crafts really, I have been a professional photographer for over 30 years and I know all too well that what looks easy from the outside isn’t all that easy from inside...) and that it not something that one could do in one day, yet, besides an certain amount of equipment needed (which even if kept slim, is a considerable investment) one would need to gain some experience at a shop not only a workshop which is lasting few weeks and few hours a week.

You can check here, Italian language is required , but you have some my language, if I understand well:
https://maestrosacademy.samsung.it/Alice-Rapetti
http://leslibellules.it/corsi/laboratorio-di-modisteria-per-cappelli-invernali-ed-estivi/
https://www.accademiaitalianadimoda...one-di-cappelli-modisteria-couture-torino.php

You can ask also to this Italian hat maker, he is one of the Cappellificio Cervo heritage
http://borrione.it/it/

May be there are others workshop here, for now you have materials for your dream

 

[milandro]

Grazie Daniele ! As I said, Italian is my mother tongue (lingua natale) so I have no troubles with that.

I don’t know that I would go to the extremes of going back to Italy for a period of time, although it is my native country ( I have a double nationality Italian and Dutch) for a course which may lasts a few months . The one in Turin explains that the course consists of a total of 60 hours, but doesn’t say how many hours each lesson lasts, assuming they are 5 hours each lesson, they should be at least 12 lessons.

The hat makers that I mentioned above are young enterprises sprouted in the last few years, the “ cappellificio Cervo seems to be WAY older than that. There is a special thread about the italian hats, perhaps, if you haven’t already done that it may be worth posting there about “ Il cappellificio Cervo”.

 

[Daniele Tanto]

The hat makers that I mentioned above are young enterprises sprouted in the last few years, the “ cappellificio Cervo seems to be WAY older than that. There is a special thread about the italian hats, perhaps, if you haven’t already done that it may be worth posting there about “ Il cappellificio Cervo”.

I have already written extensively about Cappelificio Cervo and its current situation, after closing and auctioning.
Borrione is one of the last hatters of the Valle del Cervo, north of Biella, where there were numerous hat factories, including Barbisio, Cappellificio Cervo and others. They were the "mountain hatters" as opposed to Borsalino and others, "hatters of the plain" and of Panizza and Albertini "hatters on the lake"