Are Knox hats pretty common?

[Hannigan Reilly]

I have a Knox black felt fedora that I picked up at an antique store recently for a paltry sum. It says Madison Avenue inside the band, with the Knox logo, Fifth Avenue, NYC inside the crown. I am assuming the "Madison Avenue" is the model of the hat? Can any knowledgeable gents provide some insight? I will get a pic up soon, if I can.

 

[besdor]

Knox Hats

Knox hats were very popular back in the 1920's to 1960's . They were around a long time . If you look on Ebay , you will see many top hats and derbies from Knox as they made hats 100 years ago . The name today is owned by Hatco and is used for Levine Hats in St Louis ,MO .
I have a Knox Open Road that is incredible .It was the first vintage hat that I bought on Ebay 6 years ago . I wish it were my size (7 1/2).




Steven

 

[jamespowers]

Knox fedoras with a brim 2 1/2" or more are rare. You very seldomly see one in a size over 7 1/4. You can find tons of stingy brims but not wide brims.
Madison Avenue might be the model if it is at the front of the sweatband. I have a Fifth Avenue Model Bowler that is so marked. If the name is with the Knox name and logo to the left or right of the hat on the sweatband then it is just where they were located at the time the hat was made.
Besdor nailed the rest of it.

Regards,

J

 

[astaire]

my first knox

Instead of starting a new thread, i thought i would ask for a similar question here.

I've been searching for a nice medium brown fedora for a while. lost a good stetson a couple of weeks ago which was a zephyr weight and still beating my head over it lol

Anyways, a few days ago i was a sole bidder on this knox fifteen. i know it will probably a bit tight on me, but i was willing to take a chance on it since it was only a size smaller than what i wear (i'm between 7 1/8 to 1/4).

here's the pics:

does anyone know how a knox fifteen compares to the others? would it be equivalent to a royal stetson class?

btw, i can only pray i will look half as good as that dummy with the hat lol

thanks all

 

[Flash Gordon]

I have a grey Knox "Fifteen". (Which means it cost $15 at the time.) I also have a brown Knox "Twenty".

The "Twenty" is a little better felt, and when Fedora re-blocked it for me, he said it would be the equivalent of a $250 hat today. So the "Fifteen", which is only of slightly less quality, is a very fine hat indeed. You can't go wrong.

 

[Flash Gordon]

Also, that looks like a Cavanaugh edge on that hat, which is also something that is very desirable!

 

[jamespowers]

Anyways, a few days ago i was a sole bidder on this knox fifteen. i know it will probably a bit tight on me, but i was willing to take a chance on it since it was only a size smaller than what i wear (i'm between 7 1/8 to 1/4).

does anyone know how a knox fifteen compares to the others? would it be equivalent to a royal stetson class?

btw, i can only pray i will look half as good as that dummy with the hat lol

thanks all

It would compare very well with the Royal Stetson class of hat. Depending on the model, I think Stetsons cost the same amount of money anyway.
Knox was a top quality hatter of the day so you have a decent hat there. I have yet to find a vintage Knox that wasn't a decent hat for me.
Even the worst of the best is good.

Regards,

J

 

[astaire]

i must admit there are three reasons why i bought this hat:

1. JP's previous post in ranking knox hats as in the same league as Cavanagh, dunlap, and Crofurt Knapp.

2. The colour of the felt

3. The bow. something about that bow appeals me because it's thick and yet so neatly tied. looks both elegant and masculine. i know other brands can make them as good, but something about this one is slightly different. i think only Art Fawcett can make better bows.

JP, would a knox fifteen be good enough to be finished by a master hatter? or is it too "cheap" to be so?

Thanks all.

 

[jamespowers]

JP, would a knox fifteen be good enough to be finished by a master hatter? or is it too "cheap" to be so?

Thanks all.

The fifteen would likely have been finished in the regular factory. Your Fiftys, Seventy-Fives and One Hundreds bodies would have likely been finished by the master hatters. They didn't trust these hat bodies to rank amateurs.
The fifteen wasn't too cheap though. When you consider that you could get a hat for $5-7.50 a Fifteen wasn't exactly the cheapest hat you could find. That would likely be the hat middle management would wear today if they had style. The CEO would be wearing the Hundred and the department heads would be wearing the Fifty to Seventy-Fives. A hat in those days was not only an accoutrement. It was an invest in style and individual character. The hat communicated something about its wearer through its style, ribbon, jaunty angle and block. When someone looks you up and down, it is the first thing they see. :cheers1:

Regards to all,

J

 

[astaire]

thanks JP and Flash

You gents are swell. :eusa_clap

JP, can we see some vintage Knox hat ads from your impressive arsenal? would be nice to see some...

Thanks all!

 

[jamespowers]

You gents are swell. :eusa_clap

JP, can we see some vintage Knox hat ads from your impressive arsenal? would be nice to see some...

Thanks all!

My arsenal. Hahahahahha! Sorry for not seeing this earlier. Here are a few:

1908 Knox Straw Hats

Tuxaway Travel hat

1944 Knox Foxhound

Spring 1943

I think you can find a few in these ads that look a bit like what you have. Knox hats were always some of the best.

Regards,

J

 

[pgoat]

Sorry to revive - The price strata is easily understood - where did the "Premier" Models fall in their hierarchy? I have a few Premiers, a Twenty and a Fifteen.

 

[jamespowers]

Sorry to revive - The price strata is easily understood - where did the "Premier" Models fall in their hierarchy? I have a few Premiers, a Twenty and a Fifteen.

The question kind of depends in which era they come from concerning the Premier models. In the Golden Era, as far as I can tell, the Premier was the top of the line second only to custom jobs and the 100. The Twenty would be next of those you listed and 15 last but not likely the lowest grade.
As you can see from the ads, the Vagabond King, Saxon and Fifth Avenue Special were more "affordable than the 15 at $10 and 7.50---respectively in 1943.
The prices were such then that you actually got what you paid for though. The felt got progressively better along with the accoutrements---sweatband, ribbon, liner and finishing by better hatters.

Regards,

J
who is wearing his Knox black bowler Fifth Avenue model.

 

[pgoat]

Thanks James

I am judging by the stingy brims of my Premiers they are the later (maybe late 50s-early 60s) vintage. Still nice hats, with decent felt but not so Golden.....

I picked up a 15 recently and it is MUCH softer/lighter/thinner felt. But the brim is 2 3/8" wide vs. 1 13/16" on the Premiers. So I am guessing it is older.....maybe early to mid 50s? (that's the 15 in my avatar - It's just a wee bit too big...rests on my left ear and sits too low on the forehead....I may have to keep it though....the color and condition are just too amazing to let go of!)

btw, just pulled out a Babes in Toyland dvd someone gave us - hadn't seen that film in a long long time....L&H were pure genius.

 

[Mystic]

Madison Avenue might be the model if it is at the front of the sweatband. I have a Fifth Avenue Model Bowler that is so marked. If the name is with the Knox name and logo to the left or right of the hat on the sweatband then it is just where they were located at the time the hat was made.

Regards,

J

That is an interesting and useful piece of information.

My first fedora, from Goodwill and the beginning of my fedora wearing, was a knox Premeir with Madison Avenue beside the Knox logo on the sweatband. I always thought that was the model name.

 

[Rodkins]

Here's my Knox Westlite in a 7 3/8 LO - very light felt and fits me like a glove

Here's my Knox Twenty

Run-of-the-mill Knox

Knox Tom-n-Jerry

Knox Premier

Knox Stingy