Anyone here have a Mail Ordered Bride?

[Twitch]

Not a mail order bride, but I met my wife outside the country, corresponded and phoned regularly and was married a couple years later.

 

[Fletch]

I agree with PADDY about "mail-order bride" being a derogatory term. It reinforces the (probably somewhat true) stereotype that the woman is only in it for the money, and the man only for the, uh, shall I say, commodity value.

Notice that there are no mail-order bridegrooms out there. Even if there were, no woman would get involved with any such arrangement.

It's still a mystery to me how ANY of these relationships succeed. Everything seems so superficial. There must be a lot of desperate women AND men out there.

 

[Viola]

Notice that there are no mail-order bridegrooms out there. Even if there were, no woman would get involved with any such arrangement.

No guys out there marrying for a green-card? I think you're mistaken.

-Viola

 

[Fletch]

Isn't that a different arrangement somehow? They're usually already-arrived immigrants looking to stay in-country. And there certainly isn't the personal ad infrastructure in place to promote them as a commodity.

 

[Zemke Fan]

As far as I know...

The words "Mail Order Bride" is rather emotive and has a rather derogatory tinge to it and no doubt is a 'snappy quip' penned by some newspaper journalist or sub editor at some time in the past...

... this term originated in the USA in the mid-19th Century when men in the western states/territories posted advertisements in eastern newspapers looking for a wife. Interested women would respond by letter, and hence the term mail order bride.

See for example: Sarah, Plain and Tall.

However, this is what Wikipedia says:

"Mail-order bride is a label applied to a woman who lists herself in a catalog or with a marriage agency that publishes her intent to marry someone who lives far away. Although the label is widely used, it has derogatory connotations and may be offensive."​

 

[Zemke Fan]

Okay, here goes...

It's still a mystery to me how ANY of these relationships succeed. Everything seems so superficial. There must be a lot of desperate women AND men out there.

Preface: I met my wife in Vienna and not through a "Mail-order bride" service.

That said, I know a lot about this particular subject. Life and love for women in many countries (former USSR nations, for example) is VERY difficult. Male life expectancy is mid-50s (and falling) and women after a certain age -- no matter how smart, beautiful, and accomplished -- have absolutely NO prospects for marriage. Moreover, economic opportunities for women are particularly bleak (especially single mothers) in these places. Jobs are scarce and pay poorly.

There is little wonder that women from Russia, Ukraine, and other nations are looking beyond their borders. But, I wouldn't call them desperate. I'd call them hopeful. Hopeful that by giving up their countries, families, friends, etc. they might find love and a better life in the USA. Many do find those things.

As for my own situation, I spent 28 days of real, one-on-one, 24/7 time with my foreign-born bride before we got engaged. We got engaged and married because we are truly each other's "missing half." We are very much in love, have a solid relationship, and a great marriage. I am equally proud of her Russian heritage and her commitment to English proficiency and American citizenship.

Having said this, however, I must admit that ours is the exception rather than the rule. We have observed other couples with what seems like a partnership and/or business relationship rather than a marriage. Seeing this first-hand, I can assure you is both sad and disheartening. Helen and I talk about this situation constantly and we thank our lucky stars that we both married for love.

 

[PADDY]

Col. Zemke...I love the VINTAGE angle on this, which is what The Lounge is all about.

So it goes back to those old pioneer, wagon train days of yore. Now that makes much more sense to me, as we are a 'vintage' styled forum after all.

And to that end, might I add that we in Ireland have a vintage festival for the aul' farmers living in the back of beyond, who haven't the time to find a bride (those hard working farmers of ours), and so...every year hundreds, if not thousands of ladies from all over the world (particularly the USA - these girls have such good taste in Irish men you see!) for the week to see if they can find a husband (and a farmer finds a wife!!). Luck o' the Irish eh!!

 

[Fletch]

Zem, thanks for filling me in. You 2 may be the sort of exception that proves the rule - but more power to you.

I had an idea that life isn't so swell for men either in the former USSR countries - they're under a lot of social pressure to be chauvinists, louts and alcoholics. But their low life expectancy, and the lack of prospects for older women, is surprising and depressing.

 

[Zemke Fan]

What often troubles me most about these situations...

... is the wide disparity in age -- the wife being in her 20s and the husband in his 40s, 50s, or 60s. But, this same situation troubles me with people who are both from the same country. Helen and I are only 10 years apart in age, which is less than my own mother and father. As for me, I wasn't looking for a daughter, I was looking for a wife. And, I was looking overseas because (believe it or not, it's the truth) that's where my heart lead me.

 

[Zemke Fan]

I stand corrected...

According to Wikipeida:

"As of 2004, the average life expectancy in Russia was 59 years for males and 72 years for females."​

 

[carebear]

So it goes back to those old pioneer, wagon train days of yore. Now that makes much more sense to me, as we are a 'vintage' styled forum after all.

And to that end, might I add that we in Ireland have a vintage festival for the aul' farmers living in the back of beyond, who haven't the time to find a bride (those hard working farmers of ours), and so...every year hundreds, if not thousands of ladies from all over the world (particularly the USA - these girls have such good taste in Irish men you see!) for the week to see if they can find a husband (and a farmer finds a wife!!). Luck o' the Irish eh!!

I have that movie. The Matchmaker, the one with Janine Garafalo and David O'Hara.

 

[carebear]

No guys out there marrying for a green-card? I think you're mistaken.

-Viola

Gerard Depardieu did, in the movie of the same name.

Good date film, he isn't prettier than me.

 

[Grnidwitch]

This gives me a brilliant idea! I could sell myself as a mail order groom.
Where do I apply?

Is the cat included?

 

[reetpleat]

The words "Mail Order Bride" is rather emotive and has a rather derogatory tinge to it and no doubt is a 'snappy quip' penned by some newspaper journalist or sub editor at some time in the past to highlight this business when it hit the stage!.
But don't be thinking that this is like a tool-kit or an Ebay item you order through the post.

We are talking about living, breathing, thinking, ordinary people, like you and I, who believe that having love in our lives and someone to share it with, will enhance our lives that little bit more. And we are talking about people of all colours, genders, creed, nationalities...etc. I actually think it is a modern response to an age old problem...how do I find my life long partner to share my years with? and now with technology allowing us to communicate with the touch of a button, or the world becoming smaller as more of us fly around, well...this is using technology to help solve that age old problem of finding Mr/Mrs Right!

But the actual idea and concept of putting people in touch who are looking for love, is a great one. Sadly, there is still that element of 'lady luck' and 'lottery' involved, but isn't that just called 'LIFE!'

After all...people find love in all places.....over the internet (hasn't love been found via our very own club here between members), through bumping into someone in the most mundane of places doing the most ordinary of tasks (ie: weekly shopping in the supermarket with your trolley!!); from getting to know the nice girl or guy at the library or falling for a colleague at work or a nice person you just 'click' with at a dinner party. There are too many ways to list how love finds us.

So the idea of paying a company to organise your meeting someone half way across the world who is lonely and looking for their right life partner, doesn't seem so extraordinary...you have as much chance finding the right person this way, as you do any other way that life throws at you. And it is probably in a more safe, secure and controlled way for all parties involved.

Well said Paddy. I didn't want to post anything unless it took a serious turn. I have followed this as an interesting topic over the years. I personally have never had too much trouble finding someone to date, but I can understand how hard it can be for some guys.

Now the idea of mail order, so called, or of men going to foreigh countries to find a mate is stigmatized in the west for two reasons. One is the assumption that a guy wants to dicatate what he wants from a woman, and also that he wants to find a submissive woman unlike what he can find here. Also the idea that you think women here are not good enough for youseems to inflame people here.

Well, that may be true for some people, but I know there are many guys here who are not good with women but do have a lot of love to give. I know a guy in LA who et a woman in the Phillipines after making several trips there specifically to find a mate. THey are now married. He lived in LA and made good money, but did not have wht it takes in LA. Most women would not give him the time of day. He was a bit overweight and did not have a personality that could win women's attention.

Well, the women in the phillipines, or Russia or wherever, might look at him and say "he is a good man, he has a good job, wants a family, will treat me well, and will allow me to have a good life. Why not meet him and see how I like him." While women in the west no longer think in terms of only wanting a good man who will provide for a family, many in other countries still do and what is wrong with that. Most of our parents and grandparents thought this way.

Of course with the mail order, there is a risk of fraud. There are many websites giving info on how to avoid that. I would recommend any one who just wants tomeone to love and have a family with, and can not find it here, to go for it. It is not like the woman is going to come against her will.

 

[reetpleat]

No guys out there marrying for a green-card? I think you're mistaken.

-Viola

That is kind of a steriotype that goes along with it. You can call it marrying for a greencard, but if you live somewhere with no prospects, no jobs, and you have a chance to meet a nice man wiht money and prospects, why not. It was not long ago that women in this ocuntry married for the same reasons. I guess we are lucky that we do not have to think this way anymore.

Actually, there are many interesting stories from the past I have heard. Asians as well as other immigrants came here and would snd back to the old country for brides.

One story I heard from a woman was about a man from somewhere in europe. His friend was going back to the old country to brign back a wife, and the friend said bring one back for me too. That ended up being her grandparents.

The city of Seattle has an interestign story about one of the founding fathers who went back east and advertised in the papers and such to find wives for ll the men here. He brought back a trainload of them. There was aa musical and tv show about it called seven brides for seven brothers, which produced the song "the bluest skys you've ever seen are in Seattle"

 

[Zemke Fan]

The ice is getting a little thin on your end of the pond...

.
I personally have never had too much trouble finding someone to date, but I can understand how hard it can be for some guys.

Also the idea that you think women here are not good enough for you seems to inflame people here...

I have had NO trouble finding someone to date. After my separation/divorce in the mid-1990s, I had three long-term relationships and dozens of dates. I looked overseas as one option and my heart kept telling me to look in Sevastopol, Ukraine. (When your heart starts talking like that, gents... pay attention!) Finding someone to date isn't difficult... Finding someone to keep is the challenge.

OR, as one wag put it: "Falling for someone isn't hard. Finding someone to catch you is VERY difficult."

And, with respect to the second thought, I have NEVER felt that women in my home country (USA) "were not good enough for me." Quite the opposite. I am the kind of guy who finds something to admire in almost everyone I meet. What I found lacking -- in the three LTRs and the many other women I spent the time to get to know -- varied by individual. In some cases, they had been hurt so badly that their capacity to love completely was lost. In others, they were not on the same page with me with respect to family, religion, lifestyle, or many other things.

As I said earlier, my circumstances may be different than others, but please don't paint me into a corner with broad strokes of generalization.

 

[farnham54]

There is a darker side to this 'industry' too--called Human Traffiking. Sometimes--not always, but sometimes--these women are sent away without consent. It is a staple of international organized crime, and some of these women will end up in illegal brothels being raped daily or far worse.

That being said, some agencies are reputable--Do your research, or you may find yourself in a whole whack of trouble, socially, morally, and even with the good ol' FBI.

Cheers
Craig

 

[carebear]

There is a darker side to this 'industry' too--called Human Traffiking. Sometimes--not always, but sometimes--these women are sent away without consent. It is a staple of international organized crime, and some of these women will end up in illegal brothels being raped daily or far worse.

That being said, some agencies are reputable--Do your research, or you may find yourself in a whole whack of trouble, socially, morally, and even with the good ol' FBI.

Cheers
Craig

That is sort of the thing though. You don't necessarily want a woman (or man) delivered to your door step. You want the opportunity to actually meet them, on their turf,and spend a bit of time getting to know each other.

It's hard for that sort of set up to involve human traffiking as you aren't going to Wife-mart and picking a bride off the shelf who was shipped in by Russian flesh traders. You are meeting people in their real lives.

Also, unless you have a dungeon, keeping a person against their will AND having a normal life is more difficult in the US. Especially if you even ostensibly want a wife as opposed to a captive.

As Eddie Murphy put it, she'll eventually turn American.

 

[carebear]

reet and Zemke,

I think we in this country really forget that most marriages, even just a couple generations ago, weren't necessarily "love matches".

People marry, even today, people they like who have a list of things going for them. Support, courtesy, shared values...

"Love" can grow from that, over time, but without all that other stuff, mere attraction will almost always fail.

 

[reetpleat]

As I said earlier, my circumstances may be different than others, but please don't paint me into a corner with broad strokes of generalization.[/QUOTE]


No offense meant. If you read my post closely, you will see I am stating the objection some people have. (Ones that I do not agree with)

Men who find mates outside of the us are three types I guess. Those who can not find one here, those who can not get one here, and those who just happen to find one somewhere else. I have no problem with any of them. Just find someone to love and love them. I am glad to hear about your happiness.

I am with you. Follow your heart.