Anybody own a Schott Black Stallion? Thoughts on it?

[Damo]

Unfortunately this is a limited edition jacket which is no longer available in size 40 so it's not an option. All I want is a 118 in horsehide honestly, this was the closest thing but I think I'm gonna have to either live with it or go back to cowhide in size 40

That's too bad the next size down isn't available. Sounds like maybe you should consider custom jackets thru insurrection or johnson leathers. Or you can always have the waist taken in.

 

[AmericanIron]

Doesn't look odd to me, though it's hard to tell how it fits at the waist with your shirt sticking out like that. I've seen a lot of Schotts that fasten with the buckle sitting off centre.... personally, I like that look; seems common enough that I'd assumed it was just how Schott do it. [huh] If you're finding it not tapered enough round the waist, you certainly won't be happy with a 118, which is a more modern, boxier fit. You'd be better off looking at the 618 Perfecto - same basic, classic design as the 118, but a neater, more tapered, more vintage fit. The 618 does occasionally come available in horse (I gather that in recent years they've also stopped the practice of gluing a felt backing to the horsehide, which is good). Rarer, though, and much more expensive than the steer.

The other option would be to look for an Aero MC jacket. I have one that I need to get around to selling (too big for you and in steer, though). Unless they've radically changedc the pattern since Ken took over again (you'd need to ask them, really), it tapers quite radically. It fits me over the chest and shoulders like a 50s Halfbelt in a size 42, but tapers at the waist to be significantly (by a couple of inches, that is) smaller than a Size 42 Thirties Halfbelt (which is comparable to a size 40 50s HB, if you follow me). A price bump up from the Schott, certainly, though to be honest much as I love my 618, the Aero is a significantly better jacket IMO. If GBP650 is a bit much for you, you might be lucky on the Aero sales page, or you could try eBay.

Haha I had actually left the shirt out so that it would create a contrast to show where the jacket ended, can't win. I'm actually considering the 618HH and the 118 still. Believe it or not I actually started my pursuit for the perfect jacket by ordering a 118 in size 40 on ebay. I kept it for a while but eventually sold it because I thought it was too big in the chest. Here I am now in a similar cut size 42 feeling almost comfortable. Crazy how perspective changes isn't it? The 613 I'm wearing now (also size 40) is cut the same as the 618HH so I'm familiar with the taper, but I'd get a 42 if I were to get the 618.

Only gripe with the 613 jacket is how short it is, in the winter time it rides up in the back and I need to be sure to tuck whatever I'm wearing in or feel the wind up under my back. Size 42 keeps the same 25" length as the 40 though so that won't be much help. That's what made the stallion so appealing, it was basically a horsehide version of the 118 so I got the length AND the hide.

Reason I was leaning toward the 118 was the extra length, would be a tad bit roomy sure but it'd have to be smaller than this black stallion.

Damn Schott for not making the 118 in horse hide!

There's also the 641HH which has caught my eye recently, but I fear I'd be going down a whole other rabbit hole of size approximating and starting basically from square one.

 

[Worf]

Nice looking jacket but no my neck hurts... I like that style but not for me. The closest thing I have are my ThunderBay and my mid-weight Bootlegger. Guess I'm not punky enough and I don't ride so... But it looks good on you.

Worf

 

[AmericanIron]

Nice looking jacket but no my neck hurts... I like that style but not for me. The closest thing I have are my ThunderBay and my mid-weight Bootlegger. Guess I'm not punky enough and I don't ride so... But it looks good on you.

Worf

Can definitely respect that.

I actually love the bootlegger and if I didn't ride I'd probably own one as well.

Seems that's my biggest problem actually, I love the way a nice fitting leather jacket looks, then it drops to 0 degrees outside and -15 with the windchill at speed and I'm there in my super stylish slim fitting 613 like yea...I messed up haha.

 

[Edward]

Haha I had actually left the shirt out so that it would create a contrast to show where the jacket ended, can't win. I'm actually considering the 618HH and the 118 still. Believe it or not I actually started my pursuit for the perfect jacket by ordering a 118 in size 40 on ebay. I kept it for a while but eventually sold it because I thought it was too big in the chest. Here I am now in a similar cut size 42 feeling almost comfortable. Crazy how perspective changes isn't it? The 613 I'm wearing now (also size 40) is cut the same as the 618HH so I'm familiar with the taper, but I'd get a 42 if I were to get the 618.

Only gripe with the 613 jacket is how short it is, in the winter time it rides up in the back and I need to be sure to tuck whatever I'm wearing in or feel the wind up under my back. Size 42 keeps the same 25" length as the 40 though so that won't be much help. That's what made the stallion so appealing, it was basically a horsehide version of the 118 so I got the length AND the hide.

Reason I was leaning toward the 118 was the extra length, would be a tad bit roomy sure but it'd have to be smaller than this black stallion.

Damn Schott for not making the 118 in horse hide!

There's also the 641HH which has caught my eye recently, but I fear I'd be going down a whole other rabbit hole of size approximating and starting basically from square one.

TBH, I think there are three stages in this leather jacket game:

1] Wear jackets in a modern, oversized fit

2] Discover vintage style. Realise how much better leather jackets look when they fit better, often snugger. Wear leather jackets often a size too small for several years.

3] Figure out what best suits one, and buy jackets accordingly.

I've done a bit of 2 in my time, and hopefully am now a full-blown Stage 3....

Didn't realise that D pocket Schott was based on the 118, but that explains why you find it a little baggy around the waist. The sizing does seem to vary a lot.... I'm wearing a Size 46 618, which measures roughly the same as a 42 or a 44 in most any other manufacturer's jackets. Not tried a 613 yet, though I would quite fancy one at the right price. Maybe when I'm next in the US.... (Schotts are a good bit more expensive over here. I bought my 618 used, but new they're about GBP500, currently around USD770, which is, I rather suspect, a fair bit more than you'll pay over there! Much less of a jump to Aero prices in the UK). They're definitely a shorter jacket. My 618 is a 25" backlength, which I'm told is the norm for sizes 36 through 48.

FWIW.... I have one of Johnson's D pocket jackets in black steerhide. Gorgeous jacket, as good as my Schott. It's been cut for modern riding (not for me - I bought it used), so is a little longer on the sleeves and body than the Schott. I'd say it's maybe 27" - enough that it doesn't look at all wrong, but I notice it when I put it on. That could be an option there if you don't have the budget to go Aero. I think Johnson's new prices are comparable to Schott, and they will go custom. The only thing I don't know is whether they can get horse, if that's a dealbreaker. Somebody round these parts said at a time they didn't do it, but that may well have changed. In any case, the steer they've used for my jacket is lovely stuff.

Guess I'm not punky enough and I don't ride so...

Whaddya mean you ain't a pilot? Time you got rid of that B6.... :lol: I know what you mean about some things just not feeling right on onesself. I could never wear a bowler hat, even though there are some, rare folks on whom I think they look great. Mind you, I think I look great in a Perfecto (being introduced to the ouevre of the Ramones at an impressionable age can do that to a guy, especially when you then grow into the Brando look..... even if in my case, rather sadly, I more resemble him circa The Godfather). Other folks may have an alternative aesthetic assessment of that...

 

[IXL]

........ I like that style but not for me. The closest thing I have are my ThunderBay and my mid-weight Bootlegger. Guess I'm not punky enough and I don't ride so.......

Worf

I've said it before: you already have the "Brando" hat. You need the jacket!!! You can pull it off.
Winklepickers might be a whole other issue.........

 

[Blackadder]

Jacket looks fine. Shoulder and sleeves were perfect. It may be difficult to find one off the rack that will fit perfectly to your body. Most of my leather jackets are very tight fit just for the look and not for riding. I find nylon better suited for such activities.

 

[AmericanIron]

TBH, I think there are three stages in this leather jacket game:

1] Wear jackets in a modern, oversized fit

2] Discover vintage style. Realise how much better leather jackets look when they fit better, often snugger. Wear leather jackets often a size too small for several years.

3] Figure out what best suits one, and buy jackets accordingly.

I've done a bit of 2 in my time, and hopefully am now a full-blown Stage 3....

Both hilarious and accurate. I'm certainly sitting somewhere around a 2.5, having worn that 613 for a full year and loving it with a t shirt but starting to envy the bigger jackets for functionality. I ride with an MC so in the summertime we're all over the place from event to event and this actually continues up until about December which is where I found my breaking point.

Curious to know about your 618 though, as I'm considering the 618HH still (fairly set on horse after living in New England has left me DRENCHED more times than I care to count) as it seems to be a mix of fit and function. Would definitely go up to the size 42 with it though, as my 40 is far too small. The good news with that purchase would be that I still have the fur collar attachment in size 42 so I could finally make use of it again.

Just concerned about the length of the 618 as I know it's cut like my 613 which does leave some exposed lower back.

Side note, my buddy has one of these in brown
http://www.hillsideusa.com/Men-s-D-Pocket-Horsehide-Motorcycle-Jacket-p/5550h.htm

And it seems to be an outstanding garment. Full zip out thinsulate liner, traditional D pocket style, actual front quarter horsehide, dual leather gun pockets inside...he swears by it but I'll admit I was hesitant to believe it at first being that I've been a Schott fanboy for quite a while now.

Might take a swing at it though and if I do I'll be sure to post more (hopefully not sideways) pictures here comparing and contrasting the two.

 

[Edward]

I'd be interested to see your review if you pick up one of those. Looks interesting. The 618 is a lovely jacket to wear, though I do think you might find it just a tiny bit short for riding in if you tend towards low-waisted trews and a riding position which emphasises crouching over the tank, rather than sat more upright. In terms of sizing, my 618 is labelled as a 46, which is definitely the size of the jacket rather than me! A 46 is a snug fit over my shoulders (I can wear a jacket that's 48" across just as well, depending on cut and whether I want tog wear more than a shirt under it). Typically, I find 4" movement room is necessary in a jacket I don't plan on wearing more than that under, and that seems to put me in a 42 or a 44 depending on cut. (I'm a 44 in all Aero's prewar, slimmer cuts, and a 42 in a highwayman and cuts based on the 50s Halfbelt, for instance). If you're wearing a 38 in most anyone else's sizing, I should think you'd want to be looking at a 42 in the 618. Based on what you're saying about your 613 and my own experience, that's what I'd suggest. I'll try and remember to post a shot of my Johnson D-pocket too. It's about the same fit as (maybe a tiny bit less snug than) the 618, but labelled a 42....

 

[AmericanIron]

I'd be interested to see your review if you pick up one of those. Looks interesting. The 618 is a lovely jacket to wear, though I do think you might find it just a tiny bit short for riding in if you tend towards low-waisted trews and a riding position which emphasises crouching over the tank, rather than sat more upright. In terms of sizing, my 618 is labelled as a 46, which is definitely the size of the jacket rather than me! A 46 is a snug fit over my shoulders (I can wear a jacket that's 48" across just as well, depending on cut and whether I want tog wear more than a shirt under it). Typically, I find 4" movement room is necessary in a jacket I don't plan on wearing more than that under, and that seems to put me in a 42 or a 44 depending on cut. (I'm a 44 in all Aero's prewar, slimmer cuts, and a 42 in a highwayman and cuts based on the 50s Halfbelt, for instance). If you're wearing a 38 in most anyone else's sizing, I should think you'd want to be looking at a 42 in the 618. Based on what you're saying about your 613 and my own experience, that's what I'd suggest. I'll try and remember to post a shot of my Johnson D-pocket too. It's about the same fit as (maybe a tiny bit less snug than) the 618, but labelled a 42....

The back showing seems to be a problem regardless of the riding position. I wear levi's 501 STF's with a high rise and ride a Road Star 1600 w/ 14 inch ape hangers so I'm very upright but the problem still persists, likely due to the apes. It's not the worst thing in the world, but it's enough to notice it. A slight bit more length would be great for those cold winter months.

I'm interested in the size 42 618 because it would solve the layering problem (hopefully) but I worry as always about the waist being too large for a jacket that's so short. I'd love to see a picture of your 618 in size 46 if you've got time to post one, might help clear things up. Actually would definitely help

I called Hillside USA who was super pleasant over the phone, and stated that their jackets run about 4" larger in the chest (ie sz 42 = 46" across) I believe that would be a good fit for me in the chest area. Waist measure 40" which is terrible, but they did mention that they offer tailoring on all their products. If they ship it to me and I like the fit but need the waist slimmed, they will pay the return shipping to them, tailor it (for about $40) and send it back for free as well. Really can't beat that deal.

Also their jacket is 26.5" in the body length and 37" in the sleeve length. Perfect on both counts for apes. It's really a super functional jacket but just doesn't have that feel of a perfecto. As another user posted above I may still stuck a bit on "stage 2" haha.

 

[Damo]

American iron,
With all this discussion about other models did you send back the black stallion?

 

[AmericanIron]

American iron,
With all this discussion about other models and you sent back the black stallion?

Nope, still have it. I need to keep it so I can compare otherwise id end up having to reorder it which seems silly

 

[AmericanIron]

Hey guys, wanted to thank you for all the feedback on the initial fit pics and the suggestions for other brands as well, wanted to update you as I got a chance to try on my friend's hillside jacket. It seem the problem with waist will persist regardless of the company of manufacture. I don't mind it much with a t shirt and with a thick sweater or hoodie the jacket actually fits as well as I could hope for.

I've decided to keep the Black Stallion so here begins the horsehide break in process. I'm actually sitting on the jacket as I type this. Scrunched up and folded on itself, as I did with my 613 when it was new.

As they seem to be missing from every (even the most distant) corner of the web, I swear to upload more pictures of this jacket as it breaks in and starts to take shape. Given what I've put my other jackets through, the end of this riding season should have some excellent example pictures of how Schott's horsehide breaks in.

Thanks again for all the input, much appreciated!

 

[Bunyip]

I think that's a good move mate. It's a genuinely nice jacket. I've come very close several times to getting one myself, and legendary do some outstanding sale prices from time to time. I'm wondering when they will release another batch? They did the limited edition one with a snap on fur collar and a plaid lining. The brown they did was a really weird vinyl looking colour, if they nailed a more natural looking brown I would be all over it. I would love to see some more pictures once you've broken in a bit. Enjoy it mate, I think it's a great jacket.

 

[Edward]

The back showing seems to be a problem regardless of the riding position. I wear levi's 501 STF's with a high rise and ride a Road Star 1600 w/ 14 inch ape hangers so I'm very upright but the problem still persists, likely due to the apes. It's not the worst thing in the world, but it's enough to notice it. A slight bit more length would be great for those cold winter months.

Yeah, I'd say that's it.... ape hangers..... they call 'em 'oxster coolers' where I'm from... When you look at the bikes that were the norm back when the Perfecto was designed, there doesn't seem to have been the arms-way-up or crouched over like on a racehorse thing going on....

Maybe something more like this is what you need?

I'm interested in the size 42 618 because it would solve the layering problem (hopefully) but I worry as always about the waist being too large for a jacket that's so short. I'd love to see a picture of your 618 in size 46 if you've got time to post one, might help clear things up. Actually would definitely help

Not sure I have any at the minute.... I'll have to remember to have some done. It's definitely a wider fit on the waist than the Aero I have.... From memory, it's about a 42" on the waist, I think - a drop of about 4".

I called Hillside USA who was super pleasant over the phone, and stated that their jackets run about 4" larger in the chest (ie sz 42 = 46" across) I believe that would be a good fit for me in the chest area. Waist measure 40" which is terrible, but they did mention that they offer tailoring on all their products. If they ship it to me and I like the fit but need the waist slimmed, they will pay the return shipping to them, tailor it (for about $40) and send it back for free as well. Really can't beat that deal.

Sounds a good option. In my experience, 40" is pretty common for a wait measurement on a jacket in that size and cut...

Also their jacket is 26.5" in the body length and 37" in the sleeve length. Perfect on both counts for apes. It's really a super functional jacket but just doesn't have that feel of a perfecto. As another user posted above I may still stuck a bit on "stage 2" haha.

Yeah, you might fine that extra 1.5" makes the difference.

Hey guys, wanted to thank you for all the feedback on the initial fit pics and the suggestions for other brands as well, wanted to update you as I got a chance to try on my friend's hillside jacket. It seem the problem with waist will persist regardless of the company of manufacture. I don't mind it much with a t shirt and with a thick sweater or hoodie the jacket actually fits as well as I could hope for.

I've decided to keep the Black Stallion so here begins the horsehide break in process. I'm actually sitting on the jacket as I type this. Scrunched up and folded on itself, as I did with my 613 when it was new.

As they seem to be missing from every (even the most distant) corner of the web, I swear to upload more pictures of this jacket as it breaks in and starts to take shape. Given what I've put my other jackets through, the end of this riding season should have some excellent example pictures of how Schott's horsehide breaks in.

Thanks again for all the input, much appreciated!

Maybe something like this to go with the D-pocket?:

They wore 'em back in the day, maybe that's why jackets were cut short then... I'll be interested to see how the horsehide breaks in. The steer is nice to wear; I could be tempted by another Schott in future, though...

 

[AmericanIron]

Thanks for all the replies guys, the jacket seems like it'll be a pain to break in but I'm doing my best to wear it as often as possible. I'll give it a good weeks worth of sleeping in and wearing daily then post some more fit pics. I think it'll always be oversized in the waist and chest if I'm wearing just a t shirt, but as I learned from my last jacket if it's cold enough to be wearing the jacket it's probably cold enough to layer under it. So here's hoping it breaks in nicely!

 

[AmericanIron]

I think that's a good move mate. It's a genuinely nice jacket. I've come very close several times to getting one myself, and legendary do some outstanding sale prices from time to time. I'm wondering when they will release another batch? They did the limited edition one with a snap on fur collar and a plaid lining. The brown they did was a really weird vinyl looking colour, if they nailed a more natural looking brown I would be all over it. I would love to see some more pictures once you've broken in a bit. Enjoy it mate, I think it's a great jacket.

I wrote to them a few times and each time was told there were no plans to produce another run, unfortunately.

 

[AmericanIron]

Sorry to revive this old thread but there's been an update.

Continuing my in my indecisive ways, I ended up trading my old 613 for a 75th anniversary perfecto which was in new condition. This new jacket wasn't nearly my size but I knew I could flip it for more than I could flip my used 613 so I made the trade. Sold the anniversary jacket the same week for $550 and picked up the Black Stallion (again) for $520! Thanks to legendaryUSA giving my 10% off for life for having bought the first one (their 500 club). Also used the code RETRO which took off another 10% so total 20% off 650.

I'm happy in the jacket department now with my 618HH and my Black Stallion. The former for the summer, the latter for days like today when the temps are 40's and below.

The reason for posting though, was to inform anyone who may be curious about the leather between the two. Having now broken in both, I can say with certainty that the Black Stallion has a FAR stiffer hand and is much less comfortable upon the first wearing. I know it will break in well as my first one surely did, but if there was any debate on the FQHH vs Schott's regular horsehide, let it be settled that the difference is very apparent.

The stallion feels like armor and is cut much roomier than the 618HH. Both are size 42 btw. Also the sleeves and body length of the Stallion are longer, I'll take exact measurements when I get home but this is just more ammo for anyone who was looking for FQHH but didn't want to shell out the big bucks for Aero. I can honestly say that anything stiffer than this Stallion is of no interest to me from a motorcycle riding perspective. This jacket is as stiff as could be, and even pushes up into my neck a slight bit on first wearing.

Already armed with the knowledge that that discomfort will fade as it softens, I'm excited for the opportunity to break it in a bit more. I've got a two day motorcycle camping trip coming up which is looking like rain, the perfect opportunity to show this stallion who's boss! I'll add more pictures later today and I promise to update as it breaks in seeing as I cannot find a single fit picture of someone in a broken in Black Stallion. Stay tuned.

Also, if you fit into a size 42, 44 or 46 (all that is left available) and favor a D pocket style, do yourself a favor and buy one. At $520 you can't go wrong.

Go Schott!

 

[Monitor]

Huh! I was convinced that the Stallion is made of the same leather Schott's using for the 681/641. Is it just the stiffness or is the Stallion heavier hide altogether?

 

[AmericanIron]

Unfortunately I don't have a micrometer so I can't say for certain that the hide is thicker, but having had the opportunity to break both in side by side I can say with certainty that this stallion is much stiffer and also feels a tad bit heavier.

The stallion is heavier in weight due to the cut of the jacket being fuller so that's also not quite a fair comparison.

Also noticeable is the grain on the stallion appears coarser. I'll take some pictures of the two side by side next time I'm home to try to show the difference.

Also the tag on the stallion specifically states Front Quarter Horsehide, whereas the 618HH does not. That doesn't mean that the 618HH isn't, but I also can't find any mention of which HH it is when I search on schott's website or product description.

Both jackets are absolutely beautiful though, and with a t shirt I prefer the 618HH, when the weather is cold (Hi 30's low 40's) like it is now, I prefer the stallion with a long sleeve shirt and a thick sweater underneath.

I wouldn't be fully happy owning just one or the other, and it's taken me a while (and many jackets) to realize that.