Any Do's & Don'ts in military clothing?

[Kristofer]

I like the timeless/classic military fashion. It fits my lifestyle and are often comfortable and durable. However, some times I reflect over the moral codes that comes with certain types of military clothing. If I study German uniforms from WW2 from a fashion point of view, I am struck by the awareness of style and elegance. At the same time I wouldn't feel morally comfortable walking around in a german WW2 garment.

I also love the M-65 field jacket. But let's say I went to the northern parts of Vietnam for a holiday. I wouldn't feel comfortable walking around with a M-65 jacket coverd with patches from the Vietnam war. One might say that military clothing often comes with a history that the civil fashion lacks. A history filled with all those dark aspects of war. For most people it's not a problem but all of a sudden one might meet a person who is personally affected by the history a garment represent. If so, would it be an issue? - or should it be?

I don't know if anyone of you ever thought of military fashion in this way. But if so, it might be interesting to hear your thoughts on this. Maybe it's just me making a mountain out of a molehill.

 

[HeyMoe]

Perfect example of military fashion that has gone mainstream is the A-2 jacket.

I rarely wear any modern military items other than my contractor hat (baseball cap with velcro for flags etc) and I carry an assault pack to work. I wore a military uniform for 12 years and while I miss being in the military everyday, I have too much fun with other "styles".

As far as triggering people, remember ANYTHING can trigger someone. I work in mental health and you would not belive the items that we have discovered that can trigger folks with history of trauma. I have hopped into the office after work and encountered a resident that was triggered by the 101st Airborne T-Shirt that I was wearing. He was never in the military but associated the military with stormtroopers (not the star wars kind).

We have had folks triggered by folks wearing certain colors. It is just too numerable to fathom and if you are not in an environment where you are trying to avoid triggering people due to a potential threat of violence, there is no real way to avoid wearing something that could have the potential to trigger someone. I mean how many people do you see in an average day? If you were trying to avoid trigger each of them you would end up in a bubble in your house behind closed doors. We ahve a residential population of 14 and it can be difficult in those controlled circumstances.

I guess what I am saying is as long as you are not impersonating a soldier and are wearing what makes you happy......go for it.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Cargo shorts also evolved from military fatigue pants.

 

[Edward]

I've worn military clothing from a wide range of participants in WW2 and other conflicts. It can be a great way to get an affordable vintage look: a pair of army dress wool trews as worn by a GI in 1942 can easily be dressed up to give a great period civilian look. The only limitation here is with colours. If you're prepared to dabble with Wehrmacht bits, you open up the colour range a bit. Hell, but for the fact that they aren't straight leg (some sort of buckle cuff or similar at the ankles), I'd have no scruples about wearing a repro pair of Algemeine SS trousers - end of the day, they're only black wool trousers. That's a world away from dressing in a full Nazi uniform and/or wearing a Swastika armband. Sensitivity is one thing. I agree with you on your examples, to which I might add the idea of wearing an A2 with an AVG bloodchit bearing the Chinese Nationalist flag in modern Beijing. I'd probably avoid an Irvin in Dresden. But let's not get carried away so far that nobody feels able to wear anything, and we give this stuff too much power over us. The best reason to avoid dressing in military gear from head to toe is that you'll look like a ridiculous wannabe (this may vary from place to place, but here in the UK off-duty and ex-forces typically wouldn't be seen dead in anything that comes close to resembling any kind of uniform issue). On the other hand, the occasional piece thrown into a civilian outfit? By all means, go for it.

 

[Edward]

Cargo shorts also evolved from military fatigue pants.

Now, there I really do have to draw a line. No grown man has any business wearing short trousers, for any reason.

 

[cuthbert]

I like the timeless/classic military fashion. It fits my lifestyle and are often comfortable and durable. However, some times I reflect over the moral codes that comes with certain types of military clothing. If I study German uniforms from WW2 from a fashion point of view, I am struck by the awareness of style and elegance. At the same time I wouldn't feel morally comfortable walking around in a german WW2 garment.

German WWII gear is a special case: it was designed to look stylish, elegant and to impress people. It is also true than until the mid '60s military people, especially officers, were very fashion concerned, you can still find some of them today, for instance, in Modena in front of the Officers' Academy there's a famous taylor who make bespoke uniforms that look stunning, but the number of officers ready to spend half of their montly salary for a taylored uniform is very limited today.

In general however I prefer to avoid military clothing because I don't like to pass for a poser, the exceptions are A-2 and G-1 jackets (without patches!) and Luftwaffe jackets that I view like biker's jackets of the 40s.

 

[Tony B]

Yep I would feel bad wearing an M65 round north Vietnam......it would be the heatstroke. Seriously there is every chance that the thing would have been made there.....if you want a laugh watch the top gear vietnam special on the BBC with the stars and stripes painted bike with the stereo permanantly playing born in the USA.

Outside of America and Britain I think you are dealing with people who have better things to do than look for things to get offended by.

I remember a few years ago at the Beltring war and peace military vehicle rally seeing the old boys looking at the german re-enactors and mostwere just a bit bemused but didn't really care but the post way generation get all red in the face and go round huffing and puffing about offending the memory'of those who fought for their freedom ...the blokes who had actually fought against them just seemed to think "oh well if they want to dress like a bunch of compleat tw**ts thats up to them, bloody wierdos."

I was after reference book for work a few years ago and it was pre internet days so you had to buy refence books for everything, I sculpt model soldiers and was after some book on ss uniforms and had to get it form some bloke in USA who was a known specialist in third reich gear and not just militaria it was some of the real weird hardcore nazi stuff, speaking to him I thought hang on your name is jewish isn't it and you could hear him grinning down the phone "yeah buddy it't great isnt it all these a holes who would put me in a gas chamber and are dumb enough to spend loads of money to go round looking like nazis may as well give their money to a jew rather than someone else" Can't argue with that.

Having said that I have just finished making a nice heavy moleskin shirt for the winter, fantastic thick fabric and I got it dirt cheap and I could live with the tan colour for the price I got it for as most of the wardrobe is muted earthy colours with some black leftovers form my headbanger days. Anyway I added all the little touches that I couldn't find on any shop bought shirt like a good pair of chest pockets and TA DA the perfect winter shirt....EEERRRR NO ...I have made a brownshirt I don't mean a brown shirt I mean a brownshirt in pretty much a perfcet match for SA brown, that thing is not leaving the house, I don't care about offending people, never have, but I would feel a total pillock knowing what it looked like.

lets face it nobody under the age of mid seventies remembers WW2 so if anyone did get offended it would be someone just working themself up about something they dont even remember so they would be 100% within their rights to keep their opinion to themselves lest they offend me. Everyone has the right to an opinion of the way someone they see in the street is dressed and they also have the right to keep it buttoned.

Like Edward said swastikas etc and you are asking for trouble and I think you would deserve anything you get, but if you want to wear combats or a flight jacket ,not both together though, and someone says something they are the one starting the trouble so deserve whatever they get but I must admit seeing full grown men going round dressed like actionman (GI joe) does make me smerk and if I do see someone in combats and a flight jacket I just think "WOOF WOOF ...thats my other dog impression"

...and having said all that I have just thought I haven't even got one weird or military item of clothing in my wardrobe these days....nearest thing is an old nato issue barbour international...must be getting old

 

[Phantomfixer]

Now, there I really do have to draw a line. No grown man has any business wearing short trousers, for any reason.

Angus Young? sorry had to go there

 

[eClairvaux]

Very interesting topic! I would like to add a modern german perspective to it.

Firstly, I would never (ever) wear any german military clothing from the WWII era. Of course I have grand fathers that have participated, but they haven't left anything behind in terms of uniform and I would rather burn in hell than wear it anyway. very seriously.

However I do wear a number of either vintage or modern day military items, among them a USN pea coat with petty officer first rank insignia. I would probably not wear them when I am visiting the USA, simply because I haven't earned that badge. Wearing it here is something different. Firstly fashion (after all it was an item RRL customized as a fashion statement), but in a way I feel it is also a reference to a country that I have spent so much time in and that I am indebted to. (It's quite possible that I think we all are around here.)

So for me, military clothing always has a historical and political dimension. I would never wear clothing from an era or a country I cannot relate to, but I can relate to svensk camo KSK pants for gardening chores, a M64 overcoat with liner and an A-11 pant, like I wore to burn around town on my '64 Vespina with my wife last Saturday night.

 

[eClairvaux]

Angus Young? sorry had to go there

sometimes a "like"-button is missing

 

[Edward]

Ha, that story about the Jewish fella selling Nazi is hilarious.... and a very healthy attitude. While on the one hand I think it pays t be vigilant about That Sort Of Thing, there's a part of me that thinks the very best way to disempower a certain type is to laugh at them. I did some years ago go looking for a Nazi eagle as worn on the Wehrmacht uniforms of the day for a costume piece, and I did feel the need to be careful where I bought it as some of those sites selling Third Reich bits (only a minority, mind - most had a very clear disclaimer that they did not in any way support the Nazi ideology) really did sail a bit too close to being obviously, eh, 'fans'.

 

[Edward]

Very interesting topic! I would like to add a modern german perspective to it.

Firstly, I would never (ever) wear any german military clothing from the WWII era. Of course I have grand fathers that have participated, but they haven't left anything behind in terms of uniform and I would rather burn in hell than wear it anyway. very seriously.

However I do wear a number of either vintage or modern day military items, among them a USN pea coat with petty officer first rank insignia. I would probably not wear them when I am visiting the USA, simply because I haven't earned that badge. Wearing it here is something different. Firstly fashion (after all it was an item RRL customized as a fashion statement), but in a way I feel it is also a reference to a country that I have spent so much time in and that I am indebted to. (It's quite possible that I think we all are around here.)

So for me, military clothing always has a historical and political dimension. I would never wear clothing from an era or a country I cannot relate to, but I can relate to svensk camo KSK pants for gardening chores, a M64 overcoat with liner and an A-11 pant, like I wore to burn around town on my '64 Vespina with my wife last Saturday night.

I think we're not that far apart in approach. I absolutely understand your feelings about WW2 German stuff, though, as sadly there are still too many idiots around all too ready to connect being German then or now with being Nazi. That type are in sore need of re-educating with a bit of real history rather than Hollywood nonsense...

 

[Trotsky]

I wear lots of repro military gear. It's great looking, fashionable and unique. I have a few M43-style caps without insignia I wear in winter. My favorite khakis are repro WWII US. And on and on. Also, I collect and wear peacoats. Military styled clothing has been in and out of style for decades, just don't big yourself up as a walt and I really don't see the problem.

 

[Treetopflyer]

The modern Italian military uniforms are designed and made by Armani, no kidding.

 

[cuthbert]

The modern Italian military uniforms are designed and made by Armani, no kidding.

Mmm, no.

The Carabinieri still use the old 1934 jacket that inspired the SS-uniform (although the italian jacket has better decorations),

the Air Force's tradition uniform, very similar to the RAF's was changed in the late 80s, it lost the belt, side pockets and became much darker, almost black.

The italian army still use the repubblican uniform but I noticed they are changing the colour from khaki to a dark shade of pre WWII traditional "grey-green".

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

The modern Italian military uniforms are designed and made by Armani, no kidding.

And the Air Force Academy uniforms were designed and originally made by Western Costume Company in L.A., the largest supplier of costumes to the film industry.

 

[cuthbert]

And the Air Force Academy uniforms were designed and originally made by Western Costume Company in L.A., the largest supplier of costumes to the film industry.

I see we have another great expert in militaria here...:eusa_clap

Oh, my comment was sarcastic, of course.

 

[Kristofer]

A lot of interesting and thoughtful inputs in this subject. I remember about 20 years ago, back in the 90's the neonazi movement had somewhat of an upswing in Scandinavia. This movement more or less kidnapped the MA-1 flight jacket (bomber jacket) making it impossible to wear it without being mistaken as one of them. Maybe this is not the best example for it has nothing to do with armed conflicts and war, but it illustrates how certain values can be forced upon a garment. And how some people get provoked while others won't even notice the symbolism. I do think most people have the good taste not to insult anyone intentionally by wearing "controversial" outfits. But that historical aspect of military clothing sure is interesting, something one might not reflect over when choosing a new jacket for the looks. It's also fascinating how garments become mainstream, not to mention the palestine scarf "Keffiyeh".

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Back in my chatroom days this neo-Nazi came into the room and got into an argument with one of the other people there. I looked at his profile and there was a pic of him wearing a black SS uniform without the insignia. I guess he thought he was being cute and that nobody would notice but I immediately recognized it. lol

 

[Kristofer]

Back in my chatroom days this neo-Nazi came into the room and got into an argument with one of the other people there. I looked at his profile and there was a pic of him wearing a black SS uniform without the insignia. I guess he thought he was being cute and that nobody would notice but I immediately recognized it. lol

hehe, very subtile indeed! like using a KKK robe as loungewear