Any B-15 experts out there?...

[Mike1973]

Hello from a brand spanking newbie

I found you while doing some research on B-15's after a recent fleabay purchase, can any of you fellas out there help? I'm just after a bit more info on them, and a bit more of a positive ID and age of mine. I've taken a couple of piccies, but as we're in the middle of a heatwave here I'm afraid I was far too hot and bothered to put much effort in, apologies....

Just previewed these and they are pretty poor:eusa_doh:
Anyway, there is a contract label just under the collar, "CONTRACT NXsx 96660 SIZE 38"
Shell is a really heavy cotton, full alpaca liner, very dodgy knits! No sign of an AAF decal on the shoulder, and no other markings that I can see on the jacket. Two outer slash pockets, no studs.
When did they start making the early B-15's? And what age roughly is mine?

I've been after a B-10/ early B-15 for a couple of years now, so I'm chuffed to bits with this find! Just looking for new knits for it now, seen a few kicking around on ebay.

I've also got a real beat up old Irvin I could do with some resto advice on, but that's another thread me thinks

I'm off to have a wander around the Lounge now.... great site:eusa_clap

 

[PADDY]

Welcome to the Lounge.

I'll be brief as it's bedtime at this end and I'm bushed, so forgive any typos!

Mike, despite it not likely to be an original WW2 mil spec B-15, it's still a nice vintage jacket, trust me, it looks good!
Right...

The B15...gut feeling is that it's a post war jacket made for the civilian market but inspired by the wartime military flight jackets. Probably 1950s.
Check the make of the zip and the type, also the pen pocket on the sleeve. Concerns are: Collar mouton (the furry bit!) seems too small, as they were like wings on B15s! Plus, no decal indication or pocket snaps, or no off set zip (hard to tell from pics) and we are leaning towards a civvie jacket. Material looks pretty heavy too, with original mil specs, would have been lighter.

As for Irvins...here's a start to wet your appetite and plenty of threads (use the search engine above) on restoring vintage leather..etc.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?p=54651#post54651post54651

Hope that's got you started, and good to have you on board. Post some pics to join our Irvin Club. And we'll chip in on how to get it back to it's old original flight status state if poss.

 

[Terry Lennox]

can you take a pic of the tag?

Also what paddy said on the zipper.

I'm not sure it's original.

 

[BellyTank]

A B-15 should have an off-set zipper and a lighter shell- larger collar...

And that label- Nxsx... that's a USN type.

B
T

 

[Mike1973]

Interesting....

Nobody worry about upsetting me by saying it's not a B-15 please! I'm more than happy with the look of the jacket, I'm not bothered if it's military or civilian to be honest! I much prefer the B-10 size collar to the larger B-15, and the slash B-15 style pockets are much more comfortable than the B-10 ones. I guess I've got the best of both worlds with this one

The tab on the zip is missing, so I don't know if it's identifiable, but I'll post a pick tonight, also one of the label. I agree with the all the comments pointing towards a civvie jacket, but it's odd there is no civvie label, and only a contract number? Actually, the seller put up better pics than me on ebay, the number is 160000306893 if you want to have a nose....

Also, the knits look factory fitted, despite the really bad colour clash
I'm going to replace them with light green ones I think.

I'll check out the Irvin thread tonight, and post some pics of mine... be warned it's rough! (I like to call it 'patina'!)

 

[Tony in Tarzana]

Welcome aboard! My father was from Southampton.

 

[nightandthecity]

I'd say it's a 1950s commercial jacket. A lot of B-15 style jackets were commercially available in the 1950s, sometimes made by the original WW2 contractors and quite close to spec.

The label is interesting, BT is right that it's like a USN contract number. My feeling is that it was probably added to give "authenticity" by a maker not too aware of the fine details of military contract numbers.

 

[BellyTank]

All true.

I bought a similar 'civilian' one from Aero and it even had a shoulder decal but it was not the same as an issue one. The zipper was centred, it lacked the shoulder pocket and had the same type of lining as a B-9, or maybe it was a rayon lining over alpaca/wool. I have seen a few with the heavier, more canvas-like cloth.

There was probably a lot of surplus jacket stock sitting in contracted factories at the end of the war, as well as materials and hardware, so some were probably sold to the commercial market immediately post-war, with different labeling.

I've seen some strange, quasi-miltary nomencalture labels and some which use the term 'Airforce Type'.

I believe that Paddy's jacket is a civilian/non-issue example too, although it's close.
Paddy may disagree.

B
T

 

[MudInYerEye]

Go to any gun show or rural flea market here on the East Coast and you'll find a few of these jackets, often hawked as "private purchase" wartime-used B-15s. Personally, I like 'em. They're usually manufactured very well and are quite warm. Plus you can beat the sh*t out of 'em with no worries of destroying historical artifacts.

 

[Mike1973]

Brilliant, cheers for information fellas! '50's civvie it is then
I can't wait for it too cool down now so I can wear it
I'll look out on ebay for some cheap knits now...

The zip is a talon by the way.

Tony, I studied illustration here in the early '90's, and ended up staying! I love it. There is so much history around I don't know where to start, and I'm only interested in the last 100 years or so!

 

[pablocham]

Interestingly that number NXsx 96660 was a real navy contract for overalls: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6638746188&category=13981 (An ebay stores item shown for illustration only).

I wonder if the maker of the overalls used tags left over when the contracted was filled.

 

[nightandthecity]

pablo, I think you may have complicated this whole saga! The pictures and description are pretty poor (well it is ebay...) but those look to me like they could be flight trousers to match the jacket rather than overalls. In which case the jacket could actually be some sort of USN B-15 equivalent after all. Not one I've ever heard of, but WW2 USN gear can be a weird and wonderful cornucopia of oddities.

What do you thionk guys? Take a close look at those ebay pix.

 

[Mike1973]

I quite like the idea of i being a USN jacket, but I'd have thought it would have had that stenciled somewhere, either behind the collar like the G-1's or on the breast, like the deck jackets? The lack of anything like this makes me lean towards civvie, after all the advice and knowledge offered here.

I did take a picture of the label, but it was hardly worth it! It's tucked in under the collar and difficult to get too. I think B T and nightinthecity are right about it just being military 'style'.

Anyway, you can see the thick weave of the outer shell, and the back of the Talon zipper.

 

[BellyTank]

That cloth looks to be the same type as the Navy N-1 jackets and other gear.
Jungle cloth, I believe it was called- or needle cord, or Bedford.
But they were in khaki, of course.

The USN salopette style over trousers/overall were also made form this cloth.

B
T

 

[pablocham]

The spec tag combined with the closeup of that fabric has me leaning towards USN issue. As B-T said, that looks just like the corded cotton fabric used on the N-1 and other deck jackets. I have never been in the same room as one of the surplus store special B-15s, but I was under the impression they were usually done in less substantial twills than issue B-15s. What you have there looks to be a pretty heavy fabric.

 

[BellyTank]

The one I had from Aero looked nice on their website but the cloth was quite a stiff, lightweight canvas- a bit icky for a jacket. It was constructed correctly apart from the off-set closure and shoulder pen pocket but it did have the darts sewn in the rear shoulder area and snap pockets which other suspicious versions don't.
This one's a strange one- could almost be a for-real USN jacket, the likes of which, we haven't seen...

B
T

 

[Mike1973]

I've got nothing similar to compare the fabric with, but your right, it is a very heavy cord.

Oh, and no pen pocket on the sleeve either...

 

[nightandthecity]

it's US Navy....

....95% sure. On the strength of the label picture, the ebay trousers, the description of the fabric. Probably not a flight jacket but some type of deck jacket. Very interesting.

 

[Mike1973]

A few close ups...

 

[Mike1973]

NAVY DEPARTMENT

Started the repairs on the old fella, replacing the all the knits and patching some of the worst holes.

When I took the waist knit off last night I had a poke around inside the jacket, and checked out where the label is stitched under the collar. Just visible, even though the stitching goes through the middle, is NAVY DEPARTMENT.

To everyone who correctly guessed this jacket was Navy, give yourselves a big pat on the bag, well done!

Pictures will follow when it's done, in a week or so...