'Angry Days' Shows An America Torn Over Entering World War II

[Story]

From the National Endowment for the Humanities

From Neutrality to War: The United States and Europe, 1921–1941
http://edsitement.neh.gov/curriculum-unit/neutrality-war-united-states-and-europe-1921-1941

 

[Foxer55]

Story,

From Neutrality to War: The United States and Europe, 1921–1941
http://edsitement.neh.gov/curriculum...rope-1921-1941

I open the link and the first thing I read says...

"In the years after World War I Americans quickly reached the conclusion that their country's participation in that war had been a disastrous mistake, one which should never be repeated again. During the 1920s and 1930s, therefore, they pursued a number of strategies aimed at preventing war."

Actually, there were no strategies to prevent the coming war that was destined the day WWI ended. There is considerable pathos looking at this and knowing they didn't realize what had been done. Further, the author of this piece implies he/she doesn't understand the issue too well either by using the cliche "preventing war."

Good post.

 

[Edward]

The point is that even gold standards can get sloppy and rest on their laurels. Recognizing that and then never hesitating to throw the BS flag is the first step in keeping them honest.

Absolutely! The Beeb is certainly going through some severe self-examination right now.

 

[Stearmen]

Thanks, Stearman. I thought that 50,000 number sounded a bit low, but I didn't realize there were so many sickness deaths. Does that include the influenza deaths?

Yes, 43,000 died from influenza. Even more staggering was the fact that to this day, no one knows how many people died around the word from the flue! Estements are, between 50 to 100,000,000 died. 17,000,000 military and civilians were killed as a direct military action.

 

[Story]

American supporters of the European Fascists
http://www.rationalrevolution.net/war/american_supporters_of_the_europ.htm

American Bund
The Failure of American Nazism: The German-American Bund’s Attempt to Create an American “Fifth Column”
http://www.traces.org/americanbund.html

 

[MisterCairo]

Who hasn't?

I'd still take one BBC a thousand times over the competition. [huh]

Then the competition must be horrid indeed.....

 

[MikeKardec]

Like a lot of Journalistic endeavors the front office often tends to insist on the political slant of their class or tribe but, luckily, individual reporters still occasionally try to do good reporting no matter what 'headline' the editor puts on it. Back in the '80s I was at a conference where Ben Bradlee was talking. He took questions from the audience and one was about leftest tendencies in reporting. His answer was something like, "you just have to realize, we look at the world a certain way because we understand it better than the man in the street." Basically, he was arrogantly claiming that if you are truly wise you agree with us and everyone else is outside the pale. I was a college student at the time and as left leaning as that time and place implies ... yet I was dumb struck with his hubris. To this day I continue to hope I misunderstood him.

My dad was a democrat and a socialist in the 1930s, a guy who had traveled the world and promoted African American boxers and almost went to fight in Spain. He absolutely did not want the US to get involved in the struggle in Europe, believing that it was their problem and until they solved it they would have continual wars. He also had the understanding, having studied books by many of the British, French and German generals of the WWI and interwar period and having seen fragments of the horrific civil wars in China, that it was going to be a huge war, a war that could have done vastly more damage to the US than it did. The fighting on the eastern front was so far beyond what went on in Africa and Italy and France it was nearly unimaginable. There were no guarantees in 1942 that sort of war wouldn't spill over into the west. In the end he fought in Europe and saw the west avoid the worst of the fighting ... but, according to him, we were very, very, lucky. It also was true that many Americans, not having a direct stake in what went on in Europe, were confused by the run up to the war. The Finns were fighting the Russians, the Italians were being wooed by the British, the Spanish were fighting themselves and all across Europe countries were converting to fascism without even as much struggle as the Spanish were putting up. Finally, the Germans and the Soviets, proxy enemies in Spain, made peace and divvied up Poland. I suspect that if you carefully followed current events, Europe was even more confusing than if you didn't. What in the world did they want? What vision did they have of their future? My relatives were partly Gypsy and Jew and, while they didn't really know what was going on in Europe, they knew it was bad for them ... and they were ambivalent about getting involved.

The positive thing, unlike our recent wars (for good reason), the population became more and more convinced they were doing the right thing. This was greatly aided by the general competence of the effort (not brilliantly competent but legitimately trying to put victory and right in first place) that good behavior has not been echoed by Washington in recent years.

 

[Story]

Just a tangential thought - as much as Tolkien denied it, the run-up to WWII must have heavily influenced his Lord Of The Rings trilogy.

 

[GHT]

What a facinating thread, better than a school history lesson. Someone else who was accused of being a nazi sympathiser in WW2 was the author P.G. Woodhouse. Wiki tells it well, but you will need to scroll down a fair bit. P.G. Woodhouse
What is truly amazing is that whilst America was deliberating on getting involved, yet again in Europe, some US citizens couldn't wait to get stuck in. None more so than Raimund Draper He joined the RAF and flew Spitfires. On March 23rd, flying out of Hornchurch, his aircraft lost power. He deliberately flew it into the ground to avoid hitting a school.
The School was renamed to Drapers in his memory and honour. A touching tale.
Drapers grave and memorial headstone.

 

[MikeKardec]

"Just a tangential thought - as much as Tolkien denied it, the run-up to WWII must have heavily influenced his Lord Of The Rings trilogy."

I agree! It's also amusing to see how he co-opted the quintessentially German "Ring Cycle" and converted it to an English vision of the story. You wonder how much he understood about Wagner having been appropriated as part of the Nazi mythology ... probably everything, England wasn't very far away.

I've always loved that these stories were about giving something of vast power away ... going to great lengths, an epic quest, to remove something from the world. Usually it is just the opposite, questers find and bring back, their stories are about bringing home the giant animal, the knowledge of fire, the treasure. I wonder if we could call Wagner's and Tolkien's work post modern?

 

[Capesofwrath]

"Just a tangential thought - as much as Tolkien denied it, the run-up to WWII must have heavily influenced his Lord Of The Rings trilogy."

I agree! It's also amusing to see how he co-opted the quintessentially German "Ring Cycle" and converted it to an English vision of the story. You wonder how much he understood about Wagner having been appropriated as part of the Nazi mythology ... probably everything, England wasn't very far away.

I've always loved that these stories were about giving something of vast power away ... going to great lengths, an epic quest, to remove something from the world. Usually it is just the opposite, questers find and bring back, their stories are about bringing home the giant animal, the knowledge of fire, the treasure. I wonder if we could call Wagner's and Tolkien's work post modern?

I believe he started to write it during the first world war but given his profession he was well aware of the themes of Nordic mythology. Which Wagner of course also drew on.

 

[Story]

There may have been no war more necessary than World War II. But the Americans who lived in the late 1930s and early 1940s couldn't see into the future, and many believed Germany and Japan didn't pose a major threat. War, they argued, would be a disaster. As author Lynne Olson writes in her new book, a roiling debate erupted across the US, pitting two of the nation's most admired men against each other. Those Angry Days: Roosevelt, Lindbergh, and America's Fight Over World War II, 1939-1941, captures a forgotten battle over the country's role in the world and the lives of American soldiers.

http://www.csmonitor.com/Books/chap...ne-Olson-discusses-America-s-debate-over-WWII

 

[GHT]

Slightly off topic, but this is the nearest thread that I could find. All last week, we have been commemorating the incredible feats of the pilots & crews of 617 squadron: The Dambusters. Yesterday, at a memorial service come 40's event, I discovered just how many nationalities were in that squadron. And again, whilst America was loathe to be drawn into another European War, there were those who couldn't wait to take up arms against The Nazis.
Among the brave men of 617 squadron, was, one, Joe McCarthy. click to see Joe's incredible wartime record He was born in 1919 on Long Island New York. He got into the RAF, like so many of his country men, via The Royal Canadian Air Force. His record is exemplary, so humbling.

 

[Story]

This thread is good enough - another interesting perspective on those the Press 'managed' public perception during the war.

'Lost' footage of FDR rolling down a ramp aboard a naval vessel on his way to a conference at Pearl Harbor in July, 1944.
http://www.bubblews.com/news/786976-fdr-in-a-wheelchair-footage-found-video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwGs2p8lkEc&feature=youtu.be