An Intro to Hat Terminology: A Fedora Lounge Guide

[fedoracentric]

FWIW, I wouldn't call the fed iv a snap brim. It doesn't snap up and down!

This is correct. Also another one of the reasons I got rid of my Fed IV.

As to whether or not ebay sellers know the difference between wool and fur felt, I live by this famous saying....

"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet."--Abraham Lincoln

 

[pjanssen]

I like this. Thank you!


Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk

 

[RJR]

This is correct. Also another one of the reasons I got rid of my Fed IV.

As to whether or not ebay sellers know the difference between wool and fur felt, I live by this famous saying....

"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet."--Abraham Lincoln

!!!!!

 

[Colonel Adam]

Just two quick comments. Personally, I wouldn't say a "stingy brim" is a STYLE of hat, rather just a brim width. Also, I really don't think brims narrower than 2 inches were worn throughout most of the '50s--perhaps at the very end, but very narrow brims were worn almost exclusively throughout the '60s and early '70s, when hats fell out of fashion. I say this because I'm 58 and I remember the '60s like it was yesterday. Of course, I'm not an expert in the field, it's just the way I remember it--admittedly I could be wrong.

 

[Colonel Adam]

Snap Brim

Hi guys,
Every time I think I've got this pegged, something comes up that confuses me. So could someone set the record straight on what exactly a "snap brim" is? Comparisons to "shaped brim" would be much appreciated, along with a quick definition of "flange" and it's various forms. I know it's a big ask, but I think the answer would be quite valuable for this thread.

A "snap brim" is a relatively new expression referring to a somewhat stiff brim that can be flipped or "snapped" down in the front, and then back up again, as apposed to a soft floppy brim which can not.

 

[Colonel Adam]

Thanks again for the great info. I think you are the guy to help me with a question..I have an older Borsalino and I cant seem to find the term for the brim edge. It is not shown above, but has a delicate sewn edge. VERY fine, just on the tip of the edge. Any clues?

It could be a simple "whip stitch," where the stitching goes round-and-round the edge. This type of stitch has to be done by hand, for no machine can do this, and it is done after the brim is trimmed to size. On the other hand, it could be a "binding stitch," I believe it's called. It's like a whip stitch but has thread on the very edge of the brim as well. This is done with a sewing machine and usually the stitching is done at the same time the edge of the brim is trimmed to size--done with a small knife blade on the machine. If you look at the seams inside one of your dress shirts you'll find the same--or very close to the same--kind of stitching.

 

[moontheloon]

A "snap brim" is a relatively new expression referring to a somewhat stiff brim that can be flipped or "snapped" down in the front, and then back up again, as apposed to a soft floppy brim which can not.

snap brim has nothing to do with the brims stiffness... it is all in the flange and edge treatment

 

[moontheloon]

Just two quick comments. Personally, I wouldn't say a "stingy brim" is a STYLE of hat, rather just a brim width. Also, I really don't think brims narrower than 2 inches were worn throughout most of the '50s--perhaps at the very end, but very narrow brims were worn almost exclusively throughout the '60s and early '70s, when hats fell out of fashion. I say this because I'm 58 and I remember the '60s like it was yesterday. Of course, I'm not an expert in the field, it's just the way I remember it--admittedly I could be wrong.

a stingy brim is just that ... a narrow brim on a hat ...

and there were plenty narrow brims in the 1950s
the Stetson Hallmark had a more narrow brim
the Stetson Ivy League definitely had what would be considered "stingy"
the Stetson Telfont had a stingy brim
the Stetson Bomarc had a stingy
plus many more all in the 1950s

in the 60s that brim style was pretty much your only option

 

[Frunobulax]

snap brim has nothing to do with the brims stiffness... it is all in the flange and edge treatment

Snap, crackle, pop, whatever. [emoji1]


Sent directly from my mind to yours.

 

[Colonel Adam]

snap brim has nothing to do with the brims stiffness... it is all in the flange and edge treatment

Very interesting. Please expand on that.

 

[moontheloon]

Very interesting. Please expand on that.

the flange is what gives the brim its "snap"
the presence of an edge treatment such as binding will further assist the flange.

a stiff brim will not snap

 

[RJR]

the flange is what gives the brim its "snap"
the presence of an edge treatment such as binding will further assist the flange.

a stiff brim will not snap

Correct in my experience.

 

[Bob Roberts]

I'm about to snap.

 

[Colonel Adam]

the flange is what gives the brim its "snap"
the presence of an edge treatment such as binding will further assist the flange.

a stiff brim will not snap

Okay. Well, my Dobbs hats all have double layer brims, no special edge treatment, are very stiff, and they snap up and down very well, and very crisply. But let's not argue about it, let's just leave it at that.

 

[moontheloon]

Okay. Well, my Dobbs hats all have double layer brims, no special edge treatment, are very stiff, and they snap up and down very well, and very crisply. But let's not argue about it, let's just leave it at that.

We clearly have different definitions of "stiff"

 

[jlee562]

A fedora, by definition, is a soft felt hat, regardless of whether or not the brim snaps.

"Stiff felt" encompasses bowlers and the like. Modern westerns are also stiff felts.

 

[Colonel Adam]

A fedora, by definition, is a soft felt hat, regardless of whether or not the brim snaps.

"Stiff felt" encompasses bowlers and the like. Modern westerns are also stiff felts.

If you're responding to my question about the definition and origin of the word "fedora," I appreciate your help. However, when you say, "A fedora, by definition, is a soft felt hat . . ." that's a very broad, nearly all-incisive definition. A Homburg is a soft felt hat, as are many women's hats, and there are, actually, some cowboy hats I would define as "soft felt."
I understand what your and most people's definition of a fedora is, it's my definition too. So, I guess you've actually answered my question. Fedora is a broad, loose definition, which describes most any man's or woman's hat made of soft felt, which is not defined by any other name--origin unknown.

 

[jlee562]

I was really speaking more to the point about snap brims. While one might describe a particular specimen as being relatively 'stiff,' if it's a fedora, you're still talking about soft felt hat.

Ergo, when Anthony says "a stiff brim will not snap," he's entirely correct.

You cannot, for example, snap the brim on a bowler, nor a Homburg for that matter. Although the nomenclature of "Homburg" is more of a term in the popular culture, as opposed to one initially used by hat makers to describe that style of hat. But that's a different discussion, which more educated members can better explain (and a topic for another day).

Certainly we all have described the "stiffness" of our "soft felt" hats, but if we want to be precise in our terminology (and this is certainly the thread for it), "stiff felt" doesn't snap.

 

[Colonel Adam]

I was really speaking more to the point about snap brims. While one might describe a particular specimen as being relatively 'stiff,' if it's a fedora, you're still talking about soft felt hat.

Ergo, when Anthony says "a stiff brim will not snap," he's entirely correct.

You cannot, for example, snap the brim on a bowler, nor a Homburg for that matter. Although the nomenclature of "Homburg" is more of a term in the popular culture, as opposed to one initially used by hat makers to describe that style of hat. But that's a different discussion, which more educated members can better explain (and a topic for another day).

Certainly we all have described the "stiffness" of our "soft felt" hats, but if we want to be precise in our terminology (and this is certainly the thread for it), "stiff felt" doesn't snap.

Geez, no offense, seriously, but it seems to me that terminology is exactly what the problem is. The word "stiff" means hard, ridged, or not flexible. My hats are "stiff" because I had them lacquered, but they're not so still that the brims are unbendable. And when you say soft, do you really mean soft, or do you mean flexible, or pliable? Glass can be defined as being soft to the touch, but no one would define it as flexible! The definition of the word "snap" is a problem too. When you say snap, I know you're referring to the act of "flipping" the brim down, which is exactly what I said in my first post, but the word snap actually means to quickly break something--as in snapping a twig. You're using a slang definition of the word.
So, please, don't offend me by implying I'm lying, or at best I don't know what I'm talking about when I told someone that my "stiff" brimmed hats--meaning the felt is not highly flexible but quite "stiff" as in ridged--and that they "snap" or flip down perfectly well, because I'm using these words in a more literal sense, by more accurate definitions. Whereas you are using slang, incorrect definitions of these words. And THAT IS the problem.
Now, please, for everyone's sake, let's all act like adults and just let it go.

 

[Celia]

Geez, no offense, seriously, but it seems to me that terminology is exactly what the problem is. The word "stiff" means hard, ridged, or not flexible. My hats are "stiff" because I had them lacquered, but they're not so still that the brims are unbendable. And when you say soft, do you really mean soft, or do you mean flexible, or pliable? Glass can be defined as being soft to the touch, but no one would define it as flexible! The definition of the word "snap" is a problem too. When you say snap, I know you're referring to the act of "flipping" the brim down, which is exactly what I said in my first post, but the word snap actually means to quickly break something--as in snapping a twig. You're using a slang definition of the word.
So, please, don't offend me by implying I'm lying, or at best I don't know what I'm talking about when I told someone that my "stiff" brimmed hats--meaning the felt is not highly flexible but quite "stiff" as in ridged--and that they "snap" or flip down perfectly well, because I'm using these words in a more literal sense, by more accurate definitions. Whereas you are using slang, incorrect definitions of these words. And THAT IS the problem.
Now, please, for everyone's sake, let's all act like adults and just let it go.

I don't think @jlee562 meant any offence or implied you were lying, he was just trying to point out that "stiff felt" and "soft felt" are terms which were used by the hat industry long before the names fedora, trilby, homburg etc were in common use. What we call fedoras are what they called soft felts, while bowlers and top hats were called stiff felts. Those are not slang definitions, they are the ones coined by the industry ergo the official terminology.

Of course, I also refer to some of my soft felt hats as being relatively stiff and others as very soft when describing the quality of the felt, but by definition they are all still "soft felt" hats. Like you say it's just semantics.