ALL ORIGINAL Irvin RAF type Jackets - Loving that Wolf in sheeps' clothing!

[H.Johnson]

DGL out in the snow (taken this morning).

Nice to see the old jacket getting an airing, Paddy. I agree with Andrew about the trousers...

 

[irvinsuit]

WAAFs in Irvins

This is a fascinating photograph, are any more photos from this series ?

Thanks


This picture shows two WAAF Nursing Orderlies wearing Coastal Command Irvin Flying Jackets.Coastal Command issued WAAF orderlies with these jackets and 1940 pattern flying boots,aswell as a Mae West and Parachute,when taking part in Air Evacuation Duties.This picture of the two Flying Nursing Orderlies was taken in an Air Evacuation Aircraft.The partial irvin flying suits the women of the WAAF wore,were taken from stocks of male flying clothing.

 

[blacklagoon]

I am unsure if there are any more pictures of WAAF members wearing irvins,i have not come across any as yet.I do apologise irvinsuit,for the length of time it took me to reply.I am sure there are quite a few pictures hanging around,but i have not found any that have been uploaded onto the internet yet.

 

[H.Johnson]

I think I have seen photographs of female 'ferry pilots' wearing sheepskin jackets.

 

[H.Johnson]

'Irvin' jackets in foreign service

We have seen photos of the sheepskin garment worn by Russian female flyers, by Polish airmen (as late as 1957!) and, of course, by RCAF, RAAF, Free French, Belgian and Norwegian personnel serving with the RAF.

In looking through some material relating to US preparations for D-Day yesterday I came across some photos of General Eisenhower visiting US troops 'somewhere in the south of England'. It is clearly winter, as 'Ike' is wearing a Mackinaw, and one of the officers presenting him to the enlisted men is wearing an Irvin jacket.

 

[Windsock]

"Foreign Service"?

I suppose that all depends upon your perspective..........really.



Black L, I don't suppose you'd have come across any original pics of Canadians wearing anything like this in your travels? I'd like to try to narrow down which Squadron it might have originated from.

 

[H.Johnson]

Well, I think that the US Army would be a 'foreign service' in relation to an Irvin jacket, for a number of reasons.

 

[blacklagoon]

I have not come across any photographs,or references,to a jacket like you have there Andrew,but i will keep looking.The AG lettering on the painted on insignia,may be a squadron code,in which case,it probably came from the: RCAF 122 Squadron.Their nickname was the Bombay Squadron and were a Spitfire created unit.It was renumbered 41 squadron in 1946.Their motto was: We Fly To Conquer.
Here is a link to RCAF 122 squadron info:



http://www.rcaf.com/squadrons/1-100series/index110-135.html


Here are a few pictures of russian pilots wearing Irvin Jackets during the war.

Here is a picture of a WAAF wearing an Irvin Jacket

 

[Smithy]

The AG lettering on the painted on insignia,may be a squadron code

Actually Blacklagoon the AG on Andrew's jacket stands for Air Gunner. It'll be very difficult to locate which squadron this jacket was worn on without an attached name, but at least we know it was used by an air gunner.

 

[blacklagoon]

Thank you for letting me know Smithy,i appreciate the information.

Could this picture be one of the ones you saw,of the officer with ike eisenhower,who was wearing an irvin jacket H Johnson? If so,there are a few pictures of him wearing it with ike.I will post what i have managed to find on the internet.He is Air Marshall Sir Arthur Tedder.

 

[blacklagoon]

Here are a few more pictures of Arthur Tedder wearing his Irvin Jacket

 

[blacklagoon]

Here is a picture of Monty wearing his Irvin Jacket.

Here are a few pictures of different crew members wearing their Irvin Jackets.

 

[Spitfire]

Some great pictures - again!:eusa_clap
Wouldn't it be fair to say, that - besides the brass, who for obvious reasons could wear anything they liked - the Irvin was primarily worn by the bomberboys - and not so much by fighterpilots. Due to the small cockpits.
I knew they had them, but from the pictures I have seen, it looks like they (the fighterboys) primarily used them on the ground...driving their MG's, hanging around in deckchairs and in the pub:beer:

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Does anyone have a puller for a Dot sleeve zip i could purchase?

I don't need the track and i don't really need the slider (both are present), just the puller. But of course if you have any of these things, i'll take it off your hands.

bk

 

[H.Johnson]

Here are a few more pictures of Arthur Tedder wearing his Irvin Jacket

[/IMG]

Thank you for posting these - but it is definitely a US officer (wearing a US service cap) and the 'Irvin' jacket is a different model. The occasion was probably the same (or during the same tour). I wonder if one of AVM Tedder's RAF contingent had lent his jacket to the US officer?

 

[H.Johnson]

Does anyone have a puller for a Dot sleeve zip i could purchase?

I don't need the track and i don't really need the slider (both are present), just the puller. But of course if you have any of these things, i'll take it off your hands.

bk

Is it the single or double trunnion type?

 

[Windsock]

Actually Blacklagoon the AG on Andrew's jacket stands for Air Gunner. It'll be very difficult to locate which squadron this jacket was worn on without an attached name, but at least we know it was used by an air gunner.

Yes Tim, that is the problem. I'm hoping that somewhere i'll discover a period shot of an identified Canadian Crew that have their positions identified in a similar way.
For the moment I just assume it's owner was a part of No. 6 Bomber Group (RCAF), but that included 14 heavy bomber Squadrons (can possbily discount the Coastal Command Squadrons) so there's Buckleys really!

"No. 6 (RCAF) Bomber Group officially assumed operational status at 0001 hours on 1st January 1943. During the next three days the RAF handed over to the Group six stations with the RCAF squadrons established thereon. These were Leeming (Nos. 408 and 424 Squadrons), Middleton St. George (Nos. 419 and 420 Squadrons), Dishforth (Nos. 425 and 426 Squadrons), Croft (No. 427 Squadron), Dalton (No. 428 Squadron) and, lastly, Skipton-on-Swale, which was then still under construction. The Group was also given control of No. 405 Squadron, then serving with Coastal Command (and later transferred to No. 8 (PFF) Group), and No. 1659 HCU with other specialised formations. With the exception of Nos. 405, 408 and 419 Squadrons, which had Halifax IIs or Vs, all the aforementioned squadrons were then flying Wellingtons."

So, i'll be happy to live with "Air Gunners" jacket in the meantime.

 

[Smithy]

Some great pictures - again!:eusa_clap
Wouldn't it be fair to say, that - besides the brass, who for obvious reasons could wear anything they liked - the Irvin was primarily worn by the bomberboys - and not so much by fighterpilots. Due to the small cockpits.
I knew they had them, but from the pictures I have seen, it looks like they (the fighterboys) primarily used them on the ground...driving their MG's, hanging around in deckchairs and in the pub:beer:

That's pretty much the truth Soren. After the winter of '40/'41 you see far less photos of fighters boys wearing Irvins on sorties. I think this was due to a combination of factors, the introduction of BD certainly led to a decline in the use of Irvins for flying duties, and you tend to see many pilots layering clothing under their BD. Another factor was that there were improvements in cockpit heating with successive marques of fighter aircraft, and although by no means perfect this would have had some affect I would imagine. As we all know Irvins are bulky things and I know of at least one instance just prior to the Kanalkampf where a squadron leader forbade his charges from wearing them due to his theory (for right or wrong) that their wearing seriously impeded a pilot's ability to scan the skies behind himself.

Saying that, Irvins remained popular with fighter boys throughout the war for keeping oneself warm whilst on the ground as witnessed by the many photos existing of their use whilst on the deck. Even as late as the very harsh winter of '44/'45, there are many photos of 2TAF fighter squadrons wearing them on the ground in Belgium and Holland.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Is it the single or double trunnion type?

Double trunnion. But i'm sure a single trunnion type could be modified to do the job. (the heresy! I have a single trunnion one that may be pressed into service if nothing else comes along.)

bk

 

[H.Johnson]

Good points, Smithy. Also, may I offer that the work of RAF fighter pilots changed as their role in the air war moved from defensive to offensive, involving more low-level 'sweeps' and co-ordination with ground forces (after the Invasion) and less high-level interceptions, your example of 2nd TAF being perfect in this regard.

Irrespective of cockpit space (there is a lot of room in a Tempest or Typhoon cockpit) a sheepskin suit or jacket is more of a liability than an asset at lower level. Photographic evidence would suggest that even bomber crews flew low-level operations in BD or even (e.g. Operation Chastise) shirt-sleeve order.

That's pretty much the truth Soren. After the winter of '40/'41 you see far less photos of fighters boys wearing Irvins on sorties. I think this was due to a combination of factors, the introduction of BD certainly led to a decline in the use of Irvins for flying duties, and you tend to see many pilots layering clothing under their BD. Another factor was that there were improvements in cockpit heating with successive marques of fighter aircraft, and although by no means perfect this would have had some affect I would imagine. As we all know Irvins are bulky things and I know of at least one instance just prior to the Kanalkampf where a squadron leader forbade his charges from wearing them due to his theory (for right or wrong) that their wearing seriously impeded a pilot's ability to scan the skies behind himself.

Saying that, Irvins remained popular with fighter boys throughout the war for keeping oneself warm whilst on the ground as witnessed by the many photos existing of their use whilst on the deck. Even as late as the very harsh winter of '44/'45, there are many photos of 2TAF fighter squadrons wearing them on the ground in Belgium and Holland.