ALL ORIGINAL Irvin RAF type Jackets - Loving that Wolf in sheeps' clothing!

[irvinsuit]

Coastal Command (Hooded Irvins)

Hi Mark,

thanks for posting the photos of your fab looking Irvin. Your comments about hooded Irvins appearing across the RAF are true because I have numerous photos of hooded Irvins being worn by heavy bomber crews, they are evident in fighter squadrons and fighter bomber squadrons and were even worn by WAAF nursing orderlies on flight duties. I have a major milestone birthday coming next year and I've hunted long and hard for an original hooded Irvin in my size but alas to no avail, therefore needs must in order to achieve a life's ambition and I'll probably have a repro made especially. I'll update the Repro Irvin thread as soon as I get the ball rolling with this.

Thanks

 

[Mark158]

And what if your wife likes Irvins too!?

Hello Irvinsuit,
Thanks for your kind comments.
No doubt you have tried all the obvious places to find a hooded Irvin - such as dealers, Fairs, Flea Markets, etc.
Down in this part of Sassenachland we do have some quite major fairs and we try to get to most of them. If you wished we could go on the trail for you, but we would need to know your budget and vital statistics. You may have tried all this already, but if you think we could help we would give it a go for you.
Am personal friends with a few chaps down here who deal in nothing but RAF kit - they would be happy to have a go too.
As far as my jacket goes, I am sometimes lucky if I get to wear it! If my wife Julie gets there first, I've had it! A few pictures from an event in Holland two years ago - as you can see, she even imbibed strong liquor whilst wearing it!!
Mark.

 

[ButteMT61]

My kinda gal! Great pix - thanks for sharing Mark.

 

[Spitfire]

Great pics Mark and a great jacket - thanks for sharing!

 

[PADDY]

The hooded CC Sheepskins just don't generally get the credit nor the following, I feel they deserve. *I like* the quirkiness and uniqueness of 'the hood' that sets them apart as individuals (black sheep?) from the rest of the Irvinesque Flock!!
Both you and your wife sport it well too!! Thanks for sharing.

 

[Mark158]

Many Thanks for your kind comments gentlemen.
Paddy, agree with you 1,000% - be nice if anyone else out there who has a 'black sheep' nestling in the wardrobe and needing to be seen feels like showing us some pictures!
ButteMT61, While it's not Bombay Sapphire she's drinking, but the beautifully-named Dutch gin 'Young Elephant', I guess you are right, she could well be your kind of gal!

Just a couple of pictures showing Canadian lads of 404 (Buffalo) Squadron, RCAF - a Coastal Command Beaufighter gang, and part of the North Coates Strike Wing - wearing their (non-hooded) Irvins. Both pictures are Canadian Official.

 

[Gee]

Loving that jacket Mark. Pride of place in my very small collection of Irvins is a C.C. jacket sourced by Mr Geoff Pringle of Oldnautibits (a total gentleman to deal with by the way) The original label is intact, and the name and service number of the original owner are still just about legible. Research has shown that the jacket has a very interesting history. When I have found out a little more of the story I will post some pictures. For now I will just say that the gentleman was a Wireless Operator in a squadron of Halifaxes under the umbrella of Fighter Command.
Best regards,
Peter

 

[Mark158]

Hello Peter - Your jacket sounds most interesting, and I can't wait to see some pictures - don't keep us in suspenders too long if you can help it!
Am familiar with Oldnautibits, although I have never personally done business with them. A couple of my friends have, and, like you, they speak very highly of Mr. Pringle.
When you mention 'Halifaxes under the umbrella of Fighter Command', I feel this is a reference to the Glider Tug Squadrons of No. 38 Group, RAF. For a time, in 1944, they operated as a part of Air Defence of Great Britain, a most unwieldy name that Fighter Command carried until common sense prevailed and this nomenclature was scrapped.
As such, they were a part of the Allied Expeditionary Air Forces for the invasion of Europe and beyond. As you know, this is why we see invasion stripes on their Albemarles, Halifaxes and Stirlings, to say nothing of the gliders themselves!
I'm guessing, but your jacket probably did ops on 296 or 297 Squadrons at Earles Colne; 190 or 620 at Great Dunmow; 298 or 644 at Tarrant Rushton. But, only you can give us the truth, Peter, and I for one await the answer and some pictures as soon as you are in a position to tell!
Kind Regards,
Mark.

 

[Gee]

The story so far....

Hi Mark, or may I call you Sherlock? Absolutely spot on deductive reasoning. The name in the label is badly faded, only MARRI is truly legible before the lettering becomes too blurred, but the service number has survived well, and armed with these two bits of information I contacted R.A.F. Disclosures who told me that the number belonged to Mr Charles Clifford Marrison who survived the war, and was promoted in 1944. As I am not next of kin they would not divulge any more information than that which was already in the public domain through publication in The London Gazette unless I could provide proof that he died over 25 years ago. Running an internet search I found a C C Marrison, Wireless Operator in Herman's crew of 644 Squadron. The 644 Squadron has a picture of him, along with the operations he undertook. I checked back with Disclosures just to check that the service number corresponded with the C C Marrison of 644 and they confirmed it. Looking at the 644 website I learnt that Herman's crew took part in Operation Coup de Main (they tugged Glider Chalk No.3 towards Pegasus Bridge ) before returning to Tarrant Rushton to take part in Mallard, dropping more troops on D Day itself. After this they were concerned mainly with dropping SOE and SAS personnel into occupied France before taking part in Market Garden. The reason I was waiting to find out more is due to the recently discovered fact that Mr Marrison died in 1977 - because his death is over 25 years ago, as soon as I have received a copy of his death certificate I can apply for more details of his service records. As Mr Marrison was already 35 years old in 1944 and I have been told that all aircrew joining 644 were already experienced with other squadrons, there may well be more to learn about his early R.A.F. career, so I was going to wait until I have this information, but as your deductions were so accurate thought it mean to leave you on tenterhooks. I will post any more of the story as I discover it, and take some pictures for The Lounge if the sun ever comes out again.

Best,

Peter

 

[Mark158]

Hi Peter - Many thanks for your kind comments regarding my possible skills as a detective, but I am not the Sherlock you think I am! If I explained how I was able to come to those conclusions it would be off topic and Paddy would no doubt be down on me like a ton of bricks!
What a fantastic history your Irvin has! It doesn't get any better than Pegasus Bridge and then the main British Airborne drop on D-Day!!!
I must congratulate you most sincerely on your 'Sherlock' talents, and I willingly relegate myself to the role of 'Dr. Watson' in the light of the diligence and determination you have shown to discover the fascinating details surrounding Mr. Marrison and his Irvin. This will make me and fellow Loungers even more anxious to see some pictures of your jacket, but the point about the sun coming out is well made!
As far as RAF Disclosures is concerned, I believe they too fall under the derestrictions of the Freedom of Information Act, and, in truth, have probably no grounds to hold back the information you require.
Your point about many 38 Group aircrew having previous experience elswhere in the RAF is a correct one. Many of those I have encountered over the years were on their second tour, and many yet had done so many ops in Bomber Command that they had been politely 'shown the door' in an attempt to preserve their lives.
Those who were inextricably drawn by the 'pull of the front' often knocked on 38 Group's door and were mainly welcomed with open arms. Same comments appply to 46 Group, the other RAF formation in Airborne Forces. Two very experienced ex-Bomber men, Wing Commanders Bunker and Harrison both met their respective ends leading Squadrons of 38 Group after distinguished careers in Bomber Command, to say nothing of those less prominent who did the same. Also, many who had spent long years instructing in Canada, Rhodesia or South Africa, with Flying Log Books bulging with hours flown, but no operations, often found a ready home in either of these two Groups.
Not a few were ex-Coastal and Mr Marrison may well be one such. If so, it will add fuel to the theory - wrong in my opinion - that yellow-hooded Irvins were 'Coastal Command Irvins'!
Fantastic stuff, Peter - I'm sure all interested Loungers cannot wait for the saga to continue...............
Kind Regards,
Mark.

 

[Gee]

Hi Mark, I think the information in your last post belies your modesty - seriously impressive breadth of knowledge. My history is shaky at best, but I have to admit I have been like a dog with a rat when it comes to researching the exploits of 644 Squadron since tracing the name in my jacket. As part of this research I have been helped greatly by the son in law of another Wireless Operator who flew with Pope's crew and also features on the 644 website - Mr Bernard McCann. Annecdotal, I know, but in support of your theory, when I asked if Mr McCann had any memories of Mr Marrison I tried to jog his memory by mentioning the fact that the jacket was a Coastal Command version with the yellow hood. Unfortunately Bernard could not remember Mr Marrison (he was in his early twenties whereas Mr Marrison was 35, so they probably mixed in different circles) but he did recall that a yellow hooded jacket would not have stood out from the crowd. In his words, everyone was issued with the jackets, some had hoods, some did not.

Best,

Peter

 

[Mark158]

Hello Peter - I do like the 'dog with a rat' phrase, and, as they say, I might use it myself sometime!! (With your permission, of course).
I think we are definitely getting off topic now, but I would very much like to discuss this privately - is there any way we can do this without divulging contact details on the forum? Us 'hoodies' must stick together!
The main reason your friend could not remember Mr Marrison is undoubtedly the 'stick to your own crew' dictum. This was widely done as a self-defence mechanism against the times when friends were lost. The less you had, the less it hurt.
Kind Regards,
Mark.

 

[Mark158]

Hi Peter - Have sent you a private message.

 

[Windsock]

A rare cold day

...last weekend. My favourite (with a standard collar no less) got an airing. Traded in the MG for something with more HP...

 

[Spitfire]

Congrats with your new car, Andrew! Great shot!

 

[Mark158]

What a roadster..............and what a jacket!! The cops might catch up with you, but they would NEVER stop you. Want one!!
Where was the event, and what type of tank is it, please?

 

[PADDY]

The story of 'an Irvin Suit.' I'm just posting some more information on my DGL (Irvin Suit), as 'every Irvin' has a story (just using the genric Irvin term folks).

However, in this case it's a sad story and I'm unsure just 'why' F/O Gerald Hood, RAF wasn't wearing 'this suit' for his last Operational Flight that took him to Germany and then back across the Dutch Border on their way home.
(Maybe he had *scrounged/procured* another one - maybe his had got *pinched* (a very military thing with kit!) - he had got reallocated from his original crew (this was a new crew for his last mission) and crew's swap issued kit for better fits..etc, so who knows, but it didn't go on this particular mission).

Of course - young Gerald never made it home to Blightey, and the story that unfolds is a very sad and tragic story of a man in his early 20's who died alone, at night, in a Dutch wood at the hands of his SS executioners when the Allied Forces were only two weeks away from over running the area and saving him.

This is Gerald's story...
(I contacted his old school in England about the 'DGL/Irvin Suit' - but alas, I fear the interest is not there).

http://www.lancaster-lm658.co.uk/hood.htm

 

[Mark158]

However, in this case it's a sad story and I'm unsure just 'why' F/O Gerald Hood, RAF wasn't wearing 'this suit' for his last Operational Flight that took him to Germany and then back across the Dutch Border on their way home.
(Maybe he had *scrounged/procured* another one - maybe his had got *pinched* (a very military thing with kit!) - he had got reallocated from his original crew (this was a new crew for his last mission) and crew's swap issued kit for better fits..etc, so who knows, but it didn't go on this particular mission).

Hello Paddy - What a suit and what a story...................poor lad.
If I can just quickly reply to the one point quoted above; from many, many years of associating with and talking to ex-Bomber men it is clear that Irvin jackets and trousers were not popular as flying clothing. As soon as lighter, electrically heated alternatives became generally available - Sidcots, Taylor Suits (for A/Gs), heated inner garments and Everhot warmers for feet and hands, the Irvin - if indeed you had one - was relegated to motor cycle and sportscar driving or other ground use.
The 'front' crew of a Lancaster had little need to wear much heated flying clothing at any rate, because the cabin heaters efluxed there. As far as the Navigator was concerned, it was most uncomfortable to sit at a cramped nav table in such clothing, to say nothing of Mae West and parachute harness on top as well. He could not even wear his flying gauntlets, having, at best, to make do with his silk inners if he was to handle protratcors, pencils, dividers, or any other tool of his trade with any degree of accuracy.
The thing that makes me wonder is how he got it home. He must have done this at some earlier stage - I have seen much appropriated Irvin gear in the hands of Veterans - as, had it been amongst his effects when the Standing Committee of Adjustment came to clear his officer's quarter after he failed to return, as Air Ministry property it would have been signed off his Flying Clothing Card and returned to stores. Many, who had a spot of leave that corresponded with being posted from one unit to another and so were travelling with their full kit, were able to leave such items at home and hope the RAF never noticed! Mainly, if you survived to be demobbed they did, as the previously-mentioned Flying Clothing Card usually HAD to be completely signed off before they would let you out of the service. However, I have heard many, mainly devious and ingenious, stories as to how that rule was circumvented!
Fascinating Stuff, Paddy - so glad you posted it.
Mark.

 

[Smithy]

...last weekend. My favourite (with a standard collar no less) got an airing. Traded in the MG for something with more HP...

Love the photo Andrew. I see you're wearing "my" Kiwi Irvin

Talking of tanks, there's a bloke in Canterbury, NZ who was given a tank for Christmas by his wife a few years back. They had a news article back home about it which was absolute hilarious as he was tearing all around the place in it, even taking it down to the pub in the evening, although the cops paid him a visit and told him to take it easy if he was taking it to the pub! They did a follow up story a year later and he was still roaring all over the place in it, even to the pub.

 

[ButteMT61]

Grreat pix guys! Jealous here...