Alexander Leathers

[Meerkat]

Eh ? There is nothing unusual in a made in England label. Hilllary was a Kiwi, what's that got to do with anything ?

what I said was more common. And as for Hillary etc pay a visit to the site and check it out.

 

[Swoosed]

i'm taking odds that his gets locked down before the end of the day..

 

[Plumbline]

Plumbline, I wasn't referring to any previous issues any jacket maker may have had and I certainly wasn't targeting you so chill out. I'm aware that a brand may want their own label on clothing, that's fine. I'm a person of Celtic origin and I hate to see Celtic nations lumped in with England. Simple as that.

Hey Highwaymanman ....

I'm Scottish and as such I know what you mean .... and I didn't take it personally ( it's not my jacket after all ... it's a Nigel Cabourn sample ) ..... and I am chilled and have no gripe with you ar anyone else.

Loving the Highwayman ..... I've had a few, and have a couple of Roadsters as well which are very similar but a bit neater in cut ..... how's the bi-swing back because it's quite a boxy cut anyway ???

As an aside there is NO LEGAL REQUIREMENT in the UK to label a leather jacket with the country of origin or the country of manufacture ... if you do, however, it must be accurate ( along with all other things on the label ) the exceptions to this are commercial samples and prototypes ( although the true country of manufacture or origin etc. must be made clear to the buyer if the item is sold)

 

[Capesofwrath]

Merkat

Saeson in Welsh is the same as Sassanach. It was just Saxon in those languages, it came to be applied to the English as a nation later. In Scotland it meant lowland Scots at first. Although that is an oxymoron really.

 

[Meerkat]

capesofwrath i think we managed to lock down this thread in a true celtic fashion

Merkat

Saeson in Welsh is the same as Sassanach. It was just Saxon in those languages, it came to be applied to the English as a nation later. In Scotland it meant lowland Scots at first. Although that is an oxymoron really.

 

[hpalapdog]

The term Celtic nations is an historical and linguistic one in reality. The influence of the Celts on language and culture far exceeded the actual number of ethnic Celts who settled on the western fringes of Europe in the bronze age.

The majority in the country we now know as Scotland is probably of Danish and Anglo Saxon origin BTW. The Scots under Kenneth Macalpin established the kingdom of Alba when the Northern Pics were wiped out by the Norwegians, and then took advantage of the Danish invasion of England and expanded south into Northumbria absorbing many English speakers as they went. These people became known to the Scots as Sassenachs or Saxons in Gaelic.

Celtic DNA in Ireland is less than 2%. Lower than central England. 60% of the population of the British isles including Ireland have genes emanating from Iberia and SW France. The highest concentrations are still in the Welsh valleys. These are the peoples who moved across the land bridge as the last ice age ended. Later settlers and invaders were much smaller in number. For example 1% Roman, 6% Celt, 6% Saxon etc. Norse concentrations are higher on the mainland east coast including what is now Scotland and also Irish coastal regions.

 

[Plumbline]

excuse me Ireland is not British and labels accordingly

On a half serious note ..... I think a big chunk in the North is ..... and it labels accordingly ( I had a motorcycle jacket custom made 20 years ago just outside Belfast and it's labeled Made in Britain and has a Union Jack on the label)

 

[Plumbline]

The litteral translation of Sassenach is just "Southerner"

HTH

 

[Highwaymanman]

The term Celtic nations is an historical and linguistic one in reality. The influence of the Celts on language and culture far exceeded the actual number of ethnic Celts who settled on the western fringes of Europe in the bronze age.

The majority in the country we now know as Scotland is probably of Danish and Anglo Saxon origin BTW. The Scots under Kenneth Macalpin established the kingdom of Alba when the Northern Pics were wiped out by the Norwegians, and then took advantage of the Danish invasion of England and expanded south into Northumbria absorbing many English speakers as they went. These people became known to the Scots as Sassenachs or Saxons in Gaelic.

What's your point? Shared linguistic patterns and shared history (shared cultural history, I'm assuming?) are better identifiers of nationhood than those determined to establish many fully independant countries that have a vote at the UN today! Especially those which still contend with some degree of fall out from the British empire like the Celtic nations do. I say do rather than did because several of these cultures are still alive today and enjoy powers of self determination and self governance. They are modern, multicutural nations of course but you can bet that a huge majority inside those nations see themselves as being of that nation before they do being British. They also understand those nations as being of Celtic heritage and indeed that status is understood around the world, not just by people from those nations. Celtic identity can't be refuted or confirmed simply by a phenotype despite several of the Celtic cultures experiencing far less mixing with Saxons and Vikings than did the Scots or the Picts. That's reductive and we don't self identify this way out of some cultural or racial chauvinism. It's simply what we are raised as.

Also, you write as if Celts only existed north of the Tweed which is of course untrue. That demarcation wouldn't even encompass all the Q-Celtic cultures let alone the P-Celtic ones.

Just my two cents, I really don't want to get into unpleasantness with any one on here.... I just want to say Wales are gonna smash the French tomorrow.

Smash them!!!!!!!

 

[Capesofwrath]

Fuzziness of language leading to fuzziness of thinking about history is my point.

The Scots and the Irish were fully involved in the British Empire BTW and did well out of it. Long before that the Normans invaded and suppressed the English and invaded Wales and then Ireland from Wales. You wrote before as if somehow the Normans were the English, they were not. The Norman invasion was the most catastrophic defeat the English ever suffered and the English were oppressed for three hundred years after.

Then there's the movement of the Scots from the north of Ireland all down the western coast of Britain after the Romans left, and their establishment of after several hundred years of four or five sided conflict a kingdom in what became known as Scotland; and then a thousand years later some of their descendants moved back to Northern Ireland....

I suppose my point really is that a little knowledge of history and the movement of ancient peoples is useful when you start using terms like Celtic nations which is a romantic idea really, and was only invented a couple of hundred years ago in a more romantic age...

 

[jon11]

I am from Northern. Ireland and would love to know who were making custom leathers outside Belfast Plumbline? you learn something everyday.

 

[Highwaymanman]

Fuzziness of language leading to fuzziness of thinking about history is my point.

The Scots and the Irish were fully involved in the British Empire BTW and did well out of it.

Spoken like a true defender of empire. All I'll say is that every relationship has its ups and downs. You might be partially correct but even the grandest romances can lead to messy break ups!

Long before that the Normans invaded and suppressed the English and invaded Wales and then Ireland from Wales. You wrote before as if somehow the Normans were the English, they were not. The Norman invasion was the most catastrophic defeat the English ever suffered and the English were oppressed for three hundred years after.

I've not really written about the English at all, you'll notice.

Then there's the movement of the Scots from the north of Ireland all down the western coast of Britain after the Romans left, and their establishment of after several hundred years of four or five sided conflict a kingdom in what became known as Scotland; and then a thousand years later some of their descendants moved back to Northern Ireland....

Being a McLean of Duart (I'm hald Scottish, half Welsh, raised in the valleys) I am aware of this.... those were my ancestors!

I suppose my point really is that a little knowledge of history and the movement of ancient peoples is useful when you start using terms like Celtic nations which is a romantic idea really, and was only invented a couple of hundred years ago in a more romantic age...

The first bit of this I certainly agree with, the second.... well, I'd have to ask if you identified as a Celt. Ultimately it's just not for others to determine how any group of people should define their culture. I see where you're coming from with the whole Celtic revival thing. Yeah, it's true of course with the whole Iolo Morgannwg phenomenon and the invention of the Clan tartans and so on. Thing is, do people in these lands and from these culture self identify as being from Celtic nations? Yes. Does real Celtic history predate the revivals? Of course. Are there vibrant cultural structures such as political structures, languages, music and literature still extant? Yes! Does a modern conception of Celtic nationhood embrace and acknowledge these contradictions? Sure, just read 'When was Wales?' by Gwyn Alf Williams, it's all about how we've always been creating narratives around national identity since way before the 12th century! If you're seriously arguing that somehow Celtic identity was irreperably diluted by the Romans or whatever I can only retort that I live in the 21st century and that you should come on in, the water's fine!

 

[Edward]

Don't go there. It's a nasty, dark, poisonous place, and there's no humour to be had out of it.

And you with a Bowie avatar...

 

[ykurtz]

If it's not Scottish, it's crap!

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=if+it's+not+scottish+it's+crap&form=VIRE2&first=1#view=detail&mid=C5005EDDDE92249251F1C5005EDDDE92249251F1

 

[ProteinNerd]

Loving the Highwayman ..... I've had a few, and have a couple of Roadsters as well which are very similar but a bit neater in cut ..... how's the bi-swing back because it's quite a boxy cut anyway ???

I've seen this stated a few times before. Do we have definitive word from AL that this is the case?

I have a Roadster and I'm thinking of taking it to a motorcycle leathers tailor (that I've used before and does great work) to have them take in the Roadster a bit. I do have quite a large drop (8 inches) and while the Roadster fits well in the shoulders and chest, its large around the waist/stomach even with the cinches pulled to the max.

I don't expect it to be a slim fitting jacket, but a little more fitted would suit my preferences more, has anyone done this before or should I not mess with perfection?

I don't have any first hand experience with a Highwayman, I can't imagine they could be much more boxy?

 

[winterland1]

Wow has thread went on a tangent.
Oh well.
Protiennerd you must have a smaller waist/stomach. My Roadster pulls way tight if I sinch up the sides. Mine are cinched about 1/2 way and it gives a nice fitted look. No gut here either.

 

[rocketeer]

Wow has thread went on a tangent.
Oh well.

All because of a photo of a 1970s pop group How much more Fedora Lounge can you get

 

[Highwaymanman]

Please excuse me lads, I most often post on a politics/current events/ history forum and these little hanging intellectual threads that sometimes crop up here are impossible to resist. No offence meant to anyone and sorry for going off piste.

 

[rocketeer]

Please excuse me lads, I most often post on a politics/current events/ history forum and these little hanging intellectual threads that sometimes crop up here are impossible to resist. No offence meant to anyone and sorry for going off piste.

It just about happens all the time here haha.

 

[Plumbline]

I've seen this stated a few times before. Do we have definitive word from AL that this is the case?

Yup .. both by comment from Amanda and Will and also by Measurement ... a 44" Roadster is almost on a par with a 42" Highwayman give or take 1/2" ( I've posted the measurements before if you do a search)

The drop ( Chest - waist) on a std. 44" Roadster is 6" and this can cinch in to 12-13" ( according to my 44" Roadster) ... this is the same drop as my 42" Highwayman