Alexander Leathers Leather?

[OneEyeMan]

I've been obsessively thinking about getting an AL Roadster to replace my Highwayman which I unfortunately now realize is too short both in body and sleeves.
Again, I'm not sure which leather to get.
I assume the Warhawk FQCT (what does the CT stand for) is similar to the Aero FQHH.
Also interested in the Chromexcel Steerhide in Havana Brown, and the Bison Brown.
I'm looking for comments on these leathers; appearance, weight, feel, reaction to abrasion, drape, etc.
I assume that the vintage brown tumbling process for the Warhawk brings out the leather's grain more, making it easier to match similar grain patterns all over a jacket?
All comments both positive and negative are appreciated.
Pix (especially closeups) get you extra bonus points.
I'd also like to see your tartan linings and tell me the name and weight if possible.
Finally, how easy is AL to work with on custom requests?
For instance, I'd love to have a 1 piece back and moleskin or courderoy strip at the bottom of my lining if I choose a tartan.
Can they accommodate that?
Thanks all,
Lenny

 

[JanSolo]

Yes, they can accomodate almost any of your wishes. You can even have an inside leather hem instead of corduroy. Call them!

 

[Boyo]

I assume the Warhawk FQCT (what does the CT stand for) is similar to the Aero FQHH

The CT means Chrome Tanned

 

[Sloan1874]

Which is not the same as FQHH.

 

[OneEyeMan]

How does it compare to Aero's FQHH?

 

[Grayland]

Which is not the same as FQHH.

Well, it isn't the same hide that Aero uses, but it is FQHH.

 

[Sloan1874]

No, it's the chrome bit. Chromed leather's a standard product across the tanning industry. It's the CXL stuff that's Horween's calling card.

 

[OneEyeMan]

OK Sloan, now I'm more confused.
What's the difference between the 2?
Between the Warhawk Brown and Chromexcel Steer Havana, which will patina better, which drapes better?
Anybody know the thickness of either?

 

[Plumbline]

This is about Horween hides right ???

Warhawk is Combination Tanned ( Chrome and Veg Tanned)
CXL in Chromexel ( which is combination tanned - Horween's premium jacket product)
CT is Chrome Tanned


Front Quarter Horsehide (FQHH) is the cut of horsehide ... whish is actually Horsehide side minus the butt, skirt and trim.

FQHH is a jacket manufacturer term and not commonly used by tanneries ..... all the major manufacturrs of high end jackets will supply FQHH in some description or other not all of it is manufactured by Horween.
Only Aero as far as I am aware supply Horween CXL Horsehide.
Warhawk is directly comparable to CXL in terms of quality and processing without hand glazing as far as I have been informed ( this was not by Alexanders but rather by the manufacturer !)

In terms of finish and performance ... I have both Aero's and Alexanders ..... in both hides ( FQHH and STEER) and FQHH in both finishes ( CXL and Warhawk) and there is very little other than colour between them in terms of look and feel. The Warhawk is a little more matt and a little more grainy than CXL FQHH but this is minor. I have only had the Warhawk jacket for a month or so so can't compare wear yet.

In terms of colour ..

Aero have Brown, Black and Cordovan
Alexanders have Black, Havanah Brown and Burgundy

Alexanders and Aero do a variety of hides and a variety of finishes ... as do all other manufacturers. Only Aero and Alexanders are "Horween Heavy" in terms of their raw material a lot of this has to do with legacy and heritage best left out of discussion here..

I'd advise anyone getting a high end repro to get LOTS of samples and to really mangle them to see how they will handle, crease, wear etc ..... before plumping for ny particular jacket based on the description of marketers/manufacturers of jackets. Good manufacturers will not baulk or question your wish to see their samples ...... and don't be put off by steerhide .. there's a TON of AMAZING steerhide out there ( just ask JC)

Horween's cordovan butt leather is quite possibly the best material on earth for shoe manufacture. Neither Horween CXL nor Warhawk FQHH were used in vintage jacket manufacture ( CXL FQHH and Steerhide were actually industral products for gasket manufacture) and only commenced use in the 1980's as a repro jacket material. They are however exceptional leathers ...... and have a hand which is quite unique but can be quite thick, inflexible and heavy ( just MHO .. I LOVE Horween Leather but they are by teir very nature more substantial than most).

HTH

 

[Sloan1874]

OK Sloan, now I'm more confused.
What's the difference between the 2?
Between the Warhawk Brown and Chromexcel Steer Havana, which will patina better, which drapes better?
Anybody know the thickness of either?

It's the tanning technique more than anything - CXL is a proprietary method used Horween . My understanding is that Chrome is produced by most tanneries, as has been discussed elsewhere, and is relatively-speaking undistinguished. As far as I know, it's the stuff that Aero's apprentices use to practice on. [huh]

 

[OneEyeMan]

Awesome writeup Plumbline, thanks.
I'm leaning toward the Chromexcel steer hide in havana brown.
The pix of it look amazing on the AL site.
Already requested samples of the Warhawk and it, in addition to Bison.
I've had FQHH in my Aero (btw it's FS in the Classifieds if anybody is interested) so I'd like to try something different in high
end leather.
Keep the comments coming folks, and post pix.
Thanks,
Lenny

 

[GregO]

As someone else said, don't shy away from the CXL steer. I have a piece in brown CXL steer and I love it. I'm not sure why the CXL FQHH gets so much more attention than the CXL steer -- I prefer the steer over the horse. I think the grain on steer after the jacket is broken-in outshines the FQHH. Just one man's opinion.

 

[Plumbline]

It's the tanning technique more than anything - CXL is a proprietary method used Horween . My understanding is that Chrome is produced by most tanneries, as has been discussed elsewhere, and is relatively-speaking undistinguished. As far as I know, it's the stuff that Aero's apprentices use to practice on. [huh]

CXL is a proprietry NAME used by Horween ... many tanneries combination tan hide ( especially for industrial applications ) .... not that many for jacket usage.

Do not assume that just because a leather is "Only" chrome tanned it is inferior quality or " worse" than veg tanned or combination tanned. There are some amazing chrome tanend leathers out there which are as good as veg tanned. Some have suggested that chrome tanned leather is inferior to veg tanned .... this may be the case sometimes but if you start with poor quality leather raw material it really doesn't matter how you tan it .. it'll still be poor quality leather.

A wise leather tanner of some repute once told me that there are three things which define the quality of a leather :

1. The quality of the raw hide
2. The quality of the tanning pocess ( regardless of the process ... e.g. poor quality veg tanning will be significantly worse in terms of the finished product than good chrome tanning)
3. The quality of finishing ( all of the processes post the tanning stage)

I'd argue Horween produce NO real poor quality leathers (e.g. Even the skirt shavings they produce for the ground surface for equine yards is fairly good stuff. ) and to in some way to denigrade their chrome tanned leathers as compared to their veg tanned leathers or CXL is a bit like saying Cloudy Bay Chardonnay isn't as good as the Sauvignon Blanc ( to use a wine analogy).

Given that chrome tanning accounts for 80-90% of the leather produced worldwide it's hardly likley to be a rubbish process ..... Indeed its a VERY good process which produces leathers which are

-Quickly tanned.

-Stain resistant and water can roll off the surface easily.

-Soft and supple to the touch.

-Colour from the output is consistant.

-It's cheaper produce than vegetable tanned leather.

-It has a high degree of thermal resistance.

-It IS period specific

on the downside because it's a relatively simple process it's easy to do it badly ( luckilly Horween are masters of their art)

While veg tanned is also good ( and note both warhawk and CXL are combination tanned so you get the best of both worlds) it has the downside that without additional surface finishing it doesn't handle water well and also it is only available in limited colours.

So get samples and pick what you like.

 

[Highwaymanman]

I have a jacket in CXL horse and the colour is amazing. It's quite a smooth leather. My jacket has a one piece back and there is some grain at the top end by the neck but really it's not a leather with a huge amount of grain, the character comes out in colour changes, superficvial scratches and the creases that show where the jacket has conformed to my frame. I have seen examples with a much more pronounced grain. I also have examples of the steer from Alexander and I would say that the main difference is the grain. Put simply, it is much more pronounced and it comes out with very little manipulation or flexing of the hide. I would say the CT steer Havana brown colour is not as pleasing as my oil pull HH. The colour I was blown away with was burgundy. It's phenomenal.

 

[OneEyeMan]

Any comments on their Bison.
The site says it's also a Horween Chromexcel leather.
How does it compare to the Chromexcel Steer Hide in terms of appearance, aging, thickness etc.
Lenny

 

[Worf]

Any comments on their Bison.
The site says it's also a Horween Chromexcel leather.
How does it compare to the Chromexcel Steer Hide in terms of appearance, aging, thickness etc.
Lenny

The chromexcel Bison is thicker and stiffer with a far more pebbley texture than steer or horse. It's used in a ton of shoes where it's the long lasting leather of choice. VERY scuff resistant.

Worf

 

[OneEyeMan]

Thanks Worf.
Doesn't sound like prime jacket material.

 

[Monitor]

The other thread is closed but while the matter of tanning is still up in the air, I might as well ask; water resistance and aesthetics aside, has one tanning method been proved to extend durability of a hide and consequently, a leather garment, compared to the other? I mean, for example, will veg tanned leather jacket dry up and start cracking sooner than chrome tanned one, if not taken care of, or vice versa? Or is that still entirely dependent on a quality of hide?

 

[schitzo]

I'm saying don't overlook the goatskin, their black stuff is the tits. Also bear in mind that the AL roadster fits closer than an Aero highwayman.

The bison looks immense but 3.5oz is too heavy for me

 

[pauleway]

I'm saying don't overlook the goatskin, their black stuff is the tits.

I have a Arkansas in russet goat, and it is every bit as nice as the black goatskin!