AL - Simmons Bilt!

[Sloan1874]

Does anyone else wonder if WL took everyone on both sides of this for ride? If he was willing to screw over the Calders, who he'd known most of his adult life, who's to say he didn't do the same to SA and all those Aero staff etc. Playing both ends against each other. Maybe in the long run he would have stolen stock/money from Alexander Leathers as well.
Maybe they aren't 'whitewashing' this so as to not be involved but to purge themselves of what WL might have done to them also?

Obviously, this is sheer conjecture and I have no facts to back it up but it doesn't seem completely out of the realms of possibility to me. It reminds me of the phrase, 'it's easier to sell a grand lie than a small one'.

No. Just no. Go and read the narrative, you'll see exactly what Will's MO was. It wasn't about ripping off AL, that company was his escape route from being caught after his schemes began falling apart in 2011/12. It was about taking as much as he could from Aero, both physically and creatively for himself and leaving it in smoking ruins - probably in the hope that Aero would be forced to use AL to fulfil orders.

 

[AdeeC]

Well, ask yourself this: when AL was set up, did nobody in management ever ask Will where he was going to get his patterns from or if, when he turned up with them under his arm, was there not some sort of problem with this?
Also, you had AL staff used to Will's unorthodox working practices - Toohey working off the payroll at Aero t 'to keep his hand in', and of course the machinists who knew about Will's plans to set up a new company well ahead of it actually happening.

To me it looks like WL was more than an employee. Reading between the lines of all the evidence there is a strong suggestion IMO that he may have had and still has a partnership and co-owner relationship with SA.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

HD my supposition regarding possible loss of market share was really posed separate and apart from Mr. Lauder's conviction. However, I do get the impression that their PR regarding the whole WL thing perhaps could have been handled better. I believe I recall AL making a public statement a couple of years ago on their website regarding their defense of spurious things said about Mr. Lauder, and then their recent disclaimer to the contrary, disavowing that he was ever a part of AL management. Perhaps AL would have been better served to have said nothing at all regarding Mr. Lauder on either occasion instead of what they did say? :lie:

The first statement to appear on AL's website was from Will himself stating that he was this new companies MD. In those comments, he complained that he was personally wronged by Aero. It wasn't up for very long as a more blanket company statement replaced it.

 

[Sloan1874]

He was definitely instrumental in setting up the company - AL admitted as much in their original blurb, the one that they deleted several iterations ago - but who knows now. I still don't understand why Will denied that Sandy used him to approach Ken to buy Aero for £1m, laying it off on Aero Japan's owner Hiro - something he denied completely. I couldn't see what was in it for him because it was such a nonsensical thing to assert.

 

[devilish]

No. Just no. Go and read the narrative, you'll see exactly what Will's MO was. It wasn't about ripping off AL, that company was his escape route from being caught after his schemes began falling apart in 2011/12. It was about taking as much as he could from Aero, both physically and creatively for himself and leaving it in smoking ruins - probably in the hope that Aero would be forced to use AL to fulfil orders.

I know this is how it has played out so far and with the trial narrative but I don't think the whole story has come out. I just have this inkling that a lot is left unknown. If I were in SA's position, ie. a successful and presumably proud businessman (most men like this are not only proud of what they achieve but also of being able to judge people) I might not want to broadcast that I was being duped by a now convicted criminal.

KC eventually had to because too much damage had been done. But remember even he was willing to let it go right up until the end. So, I guess what I'm saying is I would not be surprised to find out that WL was conning everyone, including himself. If he hadn't outright ripped off AL yet, I kinda think he might have eventually and I certainly feel that he almost seems to me so wrapped up in this web of deceit that he wasn't capable of telling anyone the truth.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

You seem to be assuming that there wasn't this other entity actually, at some point, in cahoots with WL. Like you said..not everything is known (or quite proven). Seems some would really like to keep it that way....

 

[Superfluous]

In 2001, Phillip Morris changed its name to Altria in order to disassociate itself from cigarettes. Lauder is AL's cigarette.

 

[AdeeC]

He was definitely instrumental in setting up the company - AL admitted as much in their original blurb, the one that they deleted several iterations ago - but who knows now. I still don't understand why Will denied that Sandy used him to approach Ken to buy Aero for £1m, laying it off on Aero Japan's owner Hiro - something he denied completely. I couldn't see what was in it for him because it was such a nonsensical thing to assert.

Judging from the fairly weak and vague statements from AL dis-associating themselved from WL, I would not be surprised if they are just going to hide him in the business rather than severing the relationship. I doubt AL or SB could get on without his expertise. This other guy Toohey from the narrative seems to be nothing more than a machinist with no management experience. No suggestion as far as I am aware he was anything else until being named new AL MD. WL may still have a job when released.

 

[pawineguy]

In 2001, Phillip Morris changed its name to Altria in order to disassociate itself from cigarettes. Lauder is AL's cigarette.

+1 - Without any new products or direction this is just a way to change what pops up on the Google search. There is no reason to change the name if nothing else is going to change. And, the principal owner's name is coming off the company! If I took pride in something that I built, I would not be taking that change lightly.

 

[Sloan1874]

WL had no machining expertise, though I guess he knew the suppliers etc. I know Toohey had done rather shaky, unsuccessful marketing for Aero a while back.
But you have to ask yourself what sort of PR disaster it would be to re-brand the whole firm (however poorly) but then maintain links, in whatever form, with the guy who is the cause of all your pain?

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Hmm..not so sure about WL's expertise or experience in management. Wasn't he just mainly a hide/pattern cutter before being awarded the Aero MD position..?? Then the destruction began. Guess he had experience with dragging that along until he was cornered.

 

[devilish]

You seem to be assuming that there wasn't this other entity actually, at some point, in cahoots with WL. Like you said..not everything is known (or quite proven). Seems some would really like to keep it that way....

HD, not assuming anything. Just wondering out loud really. Like trying to figure out whodunnit before the movie/book ends.

 

[Big J]

So, who are these 'pattern technicians' (doesn't that mean that they didn't design the patterns? Otherwise they'd be 'designers', surely?) at #Simmonds_bilt_formerly_alexander_leathers_employer_of_convicted_criminal_will_lauder
?

 

[HoosierDaddy]

You keep asking this question. Just who are you directing it towards? Do you think there is someone here with the answer?

 

[AdeeC]

But you have to ask yourself what sort of PR disaster it would be to re-brand the whole firm (however poorly) but then maintain links, in whatever form, with the guy who is the cause of all your pain?

That is something a reputable business would not do. But others will cover up dodgy stuff, apply smoke and mirrors and continue as usual in particular if all the principals have the same dirt on their hands. There are many successful businesses that are controlled by criminals who hire front men as their public face. I hope SB is a reputable business.

 

[Todd M.]

So, who are these 'pattern technicians' (doesn't that mean that they didn't design the patterns? Otherwise they'd be 'designers', surely?) at #Simmonds_bilt_formerly_alexander_leathers_employer_of_convicted_criminal_will_lauder
?

I see a new jacket pattern in the future from Simmonds_bilt called the jail bird comes with a hidden pocket for a book of tracing paper and miniature camera strictly for design purposes of course

 

[pawineguy]

You keep asking this question. Just who are you directing it towards? Do you think there is someone here with the answer?

HD, please answer Big J's question already!!

 

[AdeeC]

Hmm..not so sure about WL's expertise or experience in management. Wasn't he just mainly a hide/pattern cutter before being awarded the Aero MD position..?? Then the destruction began. Guess he had experience with dragging that along until he was cornered.

Welll he managed the company for many years. Aero made some great stuff in that time and their reputation(and his) was strong until he was exposed. It appears he could manage staff and also had their loyalty. Perhaps the hardest skill for a manager to master. Its just that he focused his talents on enriching himself rather than doing the right thing by the company that employed him.

 

[Big J]

You keep asking this question. Just who are you directing it towards? Do you think there is someone here with the answer?

HD, I'm asking the question to make sure that the casual reader of the Lounge can see that the answer is not forthcoming and draw thier own conclusions.
Of course I don't expect you guys to be able to answer any better than I. Let's make sure that smoke and mirrors re-branding doesn't confuse anyone as to what the issues are.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

HD, please answer Big J's question already!!

Bootlegger Billy & Copycat Cathy