Akubra Banjo Patterson vs. Lawson

[Wildblue]

So as I'm enroute overseas, I'm considering ordering a couple hats for delivery, to stay connected with the world back home, and maintain a feeling of civilization. One of the hats I've already got picked out. For the other hat, I've been wanting something like an Akubra, in brown, slightly less dressy than my other fedoras, so that I could also wear it hiking, or with more casual wear as well.

So looking through the Akubra line, two of my favorite contenders are the Banjo Patterson and Lawson. I've also done a decent search of the forum here. From what I'm understanding, the Lawson is actually based on the Banjo Patterson. I'm somewhat leaning towards the Lawson, but would be interested to get others' thoughts here, not just between the two, but also some about Akubra, colors, brim, sizing, purchasing, etc

I'd like the hat to be a somewhat rich brown--not too light, so I like that the Lawson pictured from Noggin Tops below ("Chocolate") is darker than the Banjo Patterson, ("Fawn") which is a bit too light for me. One problem is that, depending on the store websites and Akubra themselves, I see the Lawson listed in Chocolate, Dark Fawn, Heritage Fawn, Regency Fawn, and Loden for browns, in addition to the discontinued "Moss" for green. (I won't be choosing green) I'm positive that Akubra doesn't make the Lawson in that many browns. The "Chocolate" Lawson below looks different to me from Chinaski's "Loden" Lawson, and the Loden looks really dark. (a tad too dark for me) The "Dark Fawn" does look like it could be either the "Chocolate" or the "Loden". But I can't figure out where the Heritage Fawn falls into it, (no picture found) which I assume is different from the just "Fawn" that the Banjo Patterson is depicted with. There is no "Chocolate", "Dark Fawn", or "Heritage Fawn" listed on the color swatch card from the Akubra website: http://www.akubra.com.au/pdf/Akubra colour swatch card.pdf. This is even though the Akubra website itself says that the Lawson comes in "Heritage Fawn" and "Loden". I'm guessing that the "Heritage Fawn" is the same thing as "Dark Fawn", which is the same thing as "Regency Fawn" as shown on the Akubra color swatch card.

FWIW, David Morgan also has a great 360 degree spin of the Lawson at this popup, but on the 360 it looks like a dark grey, not brown.
http://www.davidmorgan.com/popup_im...atches=1&tab3=1&tab4=1&tab5=1&name=&aiID=1776

I like the braided band on the Lawson better, and the bound brim edge. If there's one thing I'm unsure of, though, with the Lawson, it's the full 3" brim vs. the Banjo Patterson's 2.5 or 2.75". All my other Fedoras have been less than 3", and I'm not sure how it would look on me, or if it would just catch too much wind. (I'm 6'2"+, 230 lbs... pic of me in a Selentino Sterling posted at the end below for reference)

I'm a 7 3/4 Long Oval, so with hats that are not specifically Long Oval, I sometimes go with a 7 3/4 (62 cm) if the hat and band easily deform to an oval shape, or a 7 7/8 (63 cm) if it's stiff and I have to put felt strips inside the band's sides to fit it. Are Akubras (perhaps specifically these two models) very stiff? Deformable to head shape? Do Akubras run a tad small, or are they average for stated size? In the absence of any further info, I was just going to go with a 62.

Different sites actually have different sizes and colors available. Contenders are Amazon.com (which sells from Noggin Tops), Noggin Tops, David Morgan, HatsDirect.com, Everything Australian, and AussieBushHats. The last two have the best prices. Some look like there will be a 3 month wait, some may be in stock. I'm in NOOOOO hurry, given the circumstances.

Thanks for the help, all.


Noggin Tops' Banjo Patterson in "Fawn":

Noggin Tops' Lawson in "Chocolate":

David Morgan's Lawson in "Dark Fawn":

Chinaski's Lawson in "Loden":

Me in one of my Selentino Sterlings for sizing comparative reference in discussion (can't remember if this is a 2.5" or 2.75" brim):

 

[MrBadExample]

My Banjo Paterson is much darker than what's in those pictures. Just a hair lighter than the 'Regency Fawn' on the Akubra color swatch. Pretty close to the picture of the 'chocolate' Lawson.

It has conformed to my mutant long-oval skull pretty well. Akubras seem to run a little big from the factory. When I opened the box and popped it onto my head for the first time I was dismayed to find that it was loose enough to slide back and forth as well as side to side. It snugged up considerably within a couple of days, though. Instead of weather stripping in the sweatband all around (doubled-up on the sides), as I had to use when I first got it, a year or so later I just have a bit of paper towel folded into the sides. Wearing it in the rain was the best thing I did to get it fitting right.

 

[AlterEgo]

I got your PM, Wildblue, and you're asking the right guy, for I have both a Banjo Patterson and a Lawson and did a lot of research on both before purchasing them.

Being Akubras, they are both great hats, and both are of the Heritage Collection, making them superb.

This premium felt is denser and so shrinks much less if at all from sweat and rain than the other Akubra fur felts, which are sized to fit initially a half size large to accomodate the eventual shrinkage that makes them true to size over time. Ergo, whether you get the Banjo or Lawson, take their non-shrinkage into account when deciding on size. These Akubras will fit almost a half size large and stay that way forevermore. Felt beneath the sweat, maybe all the way around the perimeter, will make them fit true to size. This is MUCH better than getting a hat a half size too small and trying to stretch it. I advised you of this on another thread, but you said you have a thing about the sweat's becoming slightly wrinkled when you do this. With all due respect, get over it: All the more important given your long oval head shape that almost always requires fiddling to make a standard hat oval fit.

With regard to styling, both hats are very similarly blocked--with the same center crease, 4 1/2-inch crown height at the sides, and the same inward crown slope. The only differences are the brim width (2 3/4-in Banjo vs. 3 in) the bound brim on the Lawson, and the braided kangaroo leather hatband on the Banjo vs. the Lawson's barramundi band. In my judgement, this "striking" hatband borders on the garish, yet, despite that, the Banjo's narrower brim still makes it less casual than the Lawson, a true outdoorsman/sporting hat.

As for color:

David Morgan's "dark fawn" is the same color as Noggin Tops' "chocolate," but the hat in person has not a hint of gray seen in the DM web photo and is much darker than the NT web photo. I'd improve on those names by calling it "dark chocolate," but it has a richness you'd never mistake for black even under the dimmest lighting condition. My Lawson is this color, and I like it a lot more than I thought I would based on paper catalogue and Internet pics.

Despite the lousy Akubra company web site, "heritage fawn" is an Akubra color name that David Morgan and most other vendors use for that particular shade. It's considerably darker than the "mid-fawn" pictured in your Noggin Tops photo, but somewhat lighter than David Morgan's "regency fawn;" heritage is also a very smooth shade of felt completely absent the fleck found in regency. Despite MyBadExamples' comment, chocolate/dark fawn is WAY darker than heritage fawn. My Banjo is heritage fawn, and, personally, I find this shade to be Akubra's single best color of all its offerings--very classy and versatile.

Back when I ordered the Lawson, I thought Chinaski's "loden" was the same as DM's "dark fawn," but when the hat arrived, it's not only considerably darker but also a totally different tone than his slightly greenish-cast pics, so I now think that "loden" might be equivalent to DM's "moss"--now discontinued and no longer available at the great clearance price this past winter.

As you know, you can get several more colors in either of these hats from the Aussie vendors on special-order, a three-month wait and an eternity in my scheme of time. For $50 more, you can get a custom or bespoke hat in that period, and it'll be a long oval that will fit perfectly, too--with no ugly wrinkles in the sweat!

Though the Aussie dollar is quite favorable to the U.S. dollar right now, the savings is not that much when you factor in shipping and handling. Keep in mind that if you don't like the hat (unlikely) or it does not fit (likely if you do not take my advice), return shipping to Down Under and then another shipping charge to get its replacement will more than negate any savings.

Personally, if David Morgan has the hat I want, I get it from him, as S & H is only a flat $8.00 no matter how much the order, I'll have it in no more than three days, and his service is outstanding--getting the order right first time every time--never once screwing up my order and therefore having to "fix" it to demostrate "customer service."

Sorry I have no photos, as my digital camera battery and the spare are dead and I'm still awaiting replacements.

Hope this helps.

 

[The Good]

If I were to get something, I'd go with the Banjo Patterson. I just like it better, the leather band is also nicer in my opinion. Just my 2¢.

 

[Wildblue]

Thanks, guys, especially Alter Ego--very helpful. Of course, the thing I could use the most would be pictures of your two Akubras there, side by side, in natural lighting for proportion and color comparison/contrasting. Any chance of using a friend's camera or such?

Comparison pics of you wearing them would be most helpful as well!

Thx.

 

[G MAN]

Hey Wildblue, I don't have the Lawson but I have the Banjo Paterson

 

[Wildblue]

Thanks, G Man! Good lookin' hats. Do you know the official name of the lighter one's color? "Fawn", or "Heritage Fawn"?

 

[G MAN]

The light one is Heritage Fawn and the other is Graphite Grey which is Black to me.

 

[Wildblue]

Fantastic, that REALLY helps. I very much like both of those colors, actually. But I think for this particular hat, I'm looking for a chocolate color, so I'll either go with Noggin Tops, or ask one of the Australian companies to custom order it from Akubra direct, with Long Oval sizing. Although the former would be quicker, (I think they have them in stock) I like that the latter would be completely custom and perfect, so I'm leaning towards the custom Akubra route.

 

[AlterEgo]

Thanks, guys, especially Alter Ego--very helpful. Of course, the thing I could use the most would be pictures of your two Akubras there, side by side, in natural lighting for proportion and color comparison/contrasting. Any chance of using a friend's camera or such?

Comparison pics of you wearing them would be most helpful as well!

Thx.

Sorry for the delay in getting back here. Broke my right thumb, then my home A/C went out!

Camera cognoscenti tell me the probable reason my batteries will no longer take a charge is not because they've been recharged so many times but rather because most of those charges were done when there was plenty of juice left as opposed to dead or almost so. Aparrently, this is just a characteristic of Lithium-Ion batteries. Further, Canon no longer makes that rechargeable battery for my first-generation Digital Elph. Photos = New Camera = Not In Budget Now.

Some months back, I tried--unsuccessfully--to get folks here to post pics and names of the Akubra colors in order to once and for all sort this irksome issue out. Seemed like a great idea, but here's why it didn't work out:

First of all, though you use the expression "official name" in reference to color, one of the big problems is that there is no consistency in the names that vendors use to describe their Akubras. I have a number of its hats and have offered what I know in terms of color equivalencies, but few others have gotten on board.

Second, computer monitors vary a lot depending on quality, your settings, and room lighting. Even if we are looking at the same image, the color you see on your monitor may look significantly different from what I see on mine.

Finally, even more variability lies in the practically infinite factors comprising the photographing of the image--lighting conditions, flash (if any), background, camera quality (pixels, lens, etc.) and distance to subject being only a few. The skill of the photographer is yet another point of variability.

For example, note how much darker G MAN's Heritage Fawn Banjo appears in the pic with the bear than it does in the photo just below it. An even more dramatic contrast exists in the two photos of his Graphite Gray Banjo: The first looks virtually black--the word he uses to describe it verbally--while the second pic seems a medium-light gray.

As previously mentioned, I ordered my Lawson color primarily based on the same Chinaski photos you've posted on this thread, as I was convinced his "loden" was the same as DM's "dark fawn," but when the hat arrived, it was much darker, with a totally different tone. Fortunately, the color was acceptable, and it has grown on me to the point that I really like it, but I still would rather have Chinaski's color.

Practically speaking, the only way one can be certain a color that goes by multiple names is one and the same, is to compare the hats side-by-side in person. That's one reason I approach anyone I see wearing a decent-looking chapeau and strike up a conversation. Great way to make new friends, too.

Obviously not worth the trip just to ascertain color, Wildblue, but if any of you are ever in my neck of the woods, I'd be delighted to show you my hats and talk shop. Plan on staying a while--I have about 80! Oh, and bring plenty of beer.

 

[Chinaski]

Hey Wildblue,

I've been in the middle of selling a house and buying another - I haven't been here for a while. What'd you end up getting??

 

[Wildblue]

Well, after shopping, the best combination of good customer service and best prices ended up being Aussie Bush Hats. They came in at 10% less than other sites, plus a free gift box and chin strap. (which, FWIW, I don't think can be attached to this model)

I decided to go with the Lawson, for the reasons I mentioned above. The best coloration for me in the above pictures was the "Chocolate" from Noggin Tops, so I asked if, since this is going to be a 3-month custom order anyway, could they order it in a chocolate brown? They responded back that Akubra only makes the Lawson in two colors, the Heritage Fawn and Loden. They also checked out the Noggin Tops pictures, and assured me that it's the same color as the Loden, under different lighting. That part, I'm not totally sure about.

So... I'm curious to see what actually shows up. I think it'll be fine--this particular hat I'm looking to be rich and a bit darker in color, not the light heritage fawn. I also decided to go with the 62. We'll see about that part.

 

[AlterEgo]

Wildblue,

Were you able to get Akubra via Aussie Bush Hats to make you a long oval? If not I really hope the size 62 is not too snug.

It'll be very interesting to see what color the Lawson actually is when it arrives. I predict it will be the same as my "dark fawn" from David Morgan.

Despite that ABH told you Akubra only makes the Lawson in Heritage Fawn and Loden, that's not true: Though Akubra will not make any conceivable color, vendors choose from among a finite range in a particular fur felt and have Akubra make those just for them. For example, David Morgan has been offering the Lawson in "dark fawn" for many years.

FYI, a chin strap can be installed on any hat, with varying degrees of difficulty depending on the type of strap. You'll have to wait and see what kind of chin strap it is. Most have a simple cotter pin type of attachment, which is a cinch to attach, while others like David Morgan sells--if the hat does not already have chin strap hooks installed--need to have shirt buttons sewn into the inside of the crown to attach the loops over. I don't think ABH installs chin strap hooks on the Lawson, so the strap you get will probably be of the cotter pin type.

 

[Wildblue]

I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest, if you're absolutely right about the colors. I think it's very likely that Akubra/Aussie Bush Hats' "Loden" is the same thing as David Morgan's "Dark Fawn". Whether that's ALSO the same as Noggin Tops' "Chocolate" remains to be seen. I'm wondering if I'll end up with a true chocolate brown hat, or a very dark brown with dark green tints. I suspect it will be the latter.

Either way... eh... it's all good, and I'm sure it's going to be a great hat. Gives it kind of a surpise feel to it.

As for the size, I paid very close attention to the real-life experiences of people here with Akubras. If this was any other Akubra, I would have gone with the 63, to prepare for the significant shrinkage that's been reported. However, since the Lawson is in the Heritage series, all information really lines up with your statement above, that the Lawson shrinks "much less, if at all". That they start a half-size large just led me even more to conclude that the 62 is the right size for my particular head. (FWIW, of all the hats in my collection, the one that gives the PERFECT fit is my medium-grey Selentino Sterling in my picture in the 1st post of this thread--also a 62 cm)

For the Long Oval part, ABH sent me detailed instructions on how to specifically form Akubras to my own head. While David Morgan and maybe another vendor offered L.O. blocking services, he charged something like an extra $20 to do it. I figured I'd give it a shot this way, and work towards the perfect solution of hopefully shaping the hat to my specific noggin.

 

[Tone]

Whether that's ALSO the same as Noggin Tops' "Chocolate" remains to be seen. I'm wondering if I'll end up with a true chocolate brown hat, or a very dark brown with dark green tints. I suspect it will be the latter.

Why would you suspect dark brown with dark green tints?

 

[Neophyte]

The browns, like any hat, seem to change shades when in different light sources. For example, my Akubra Federation in Dark Brown looks light brown with a hint of grey in sunlight, but in white light or lesser light (i.e. indoors), the hint of grey seems to become a hint of dark green. I know exactly what he's talking about. Even Akubra's Mid-Brown color has been reported several times to have slight hues of olive in different lighting conditions.
Most of the time we see our own hats, I suspect, we are indoors. Logic dictates that when we are outside, we are wearing the hat. Thus, it is logical to conclude that many Akubra owners have noticed this "green hue" while indoors.

If I'm blowing smoke, call me out. I suspect I may be one of those people who like to hear themselves talk/read...themselves....type(?).

 

[Wildblue]

Well, if I look at these pics that I'll repost from above, compare the Noggin Tops' "Chocolate" to David Morgan's "Dark Fawn" and Chinaski's "Loden". To me, the Dark Fawn, and ESPECIALLY the Loden look like they have a green tint, not just true brown. There's never accounting for camera shots and lighting, of course.


Noggin Tops' Lawson in "Chocolate":

David Morgan's Lawson in "Dark Fawn":

Chinaski's Lawson in "Loden":

 

[AlterEgo]

I need not repeat the comments on colors from my epic-length post above, but it really riles me the names manufacturers and vendors use to describe them.

My "Dark Fawn" Lawson from David Morgan, as I said before, is a very dark, pure brown, pretty close to its website photo but richer in tone and absent the slight gray tinge seen in that picture. In no way is it anywhere near the much lighter fawn range of colors, so using that term is misleading. Also, it has not one hint of green in any lighting condition or against the greenest of backgrounds, like the grass in Chinaski's photos of his "Loden" Lawson, so I still think his hat's a different color from mine.

Speaking of loden, that's a term that gained widespread traction a few years ago in the clothing industry but has lost popularity of late. Though there is no hard definition of this color, I have never seen it used to describe a hue that was not unquestionably deep into the green range--until I found Chinaski's only slightly greenish Lawson on FL. Accordingly, "Loden" is a misleading term to describe the color of his hat, too.

Wildblue, I think you made a good decision getting the size 62 given that you shelled out the extra bucks to get your Lawson shaped into a long oval. When it arrives in a few months, I know you'll post pics, so I can't wait to see what color it actually turns out to be.

 

[Tone]

That's what I was wondering. Since the FED III, "Loden's" had what some consider an underlying green hue under certain lighting (usually when brand new) - it fades with sun and wear, though. ) I was wondering about the "chocolate" color which almost looks tan. Can't imagine that being mistaken for Loden's distinctive neutral shade.

Yes, it is kind of confusing, especially with all Akubra's fawn designations. Especially when they're given other color names depending on the vendor.

 

[Wildblue]

So here's what came in--me and my new Akubra. Another little "splurge" while I'm deployed, to retain a sense of normalcy and civilization. Was standard 3 month wait. Air Mailed the whole way from Australia, mate. Akubra Lawson in Loden color.

As I mentioned above, I was worried that the Loden was going to come out a dark green-brown hazel, where I was hoping for a rich chocolate brown. But the color's perfect. It really is a rich chocoloate brown, just like I was hoping, and I can resolve the coloring question that plagued me for a while. I'm now confident that Aussie Bush Hats was correct, when they said the "Loden" is the same as Noggin Tops's "Chocolate". Whether it's the same as David Morgan's "Dark Fawn", I don't know. That one, I might have to see their version in person.

As for the size, I am SO glad that I went with the 62. The 63 would be just simply too big! Since it came in a standard oval shape, it's just a hair tight front and back on my head, but plenty of room on the side. If I push inwards on the sides to shape it to my head, I get plenty of room to play all around my head crown, so it is NOT too small. If anything, I might have even been able to go smaller, but I wouldn't have tried, even if I had known ahead of time, since there's the possibility of shrinkage. Now I just have to tease it into my massive Long Oval head shape, give it a deeper and tighter pinch up front, and I'm set.

This is my first Akubra. I can ABSOLUTELY see why people rave about the Akubra quality. And this is Akubra's premium line, using their Heritage rabbit felt, which is light years beyond my Stetson Temple fedora. I'm definitely a sold Akubra fan now. I don't have any more need of hats for quite some time, (I know... they all say that) but if/when I do, you can bet I'll be looking at Akubras first.

I hope this thread helps someone else that is looking at Akubras, is debating between the Lawson and the Banjo Patterson, is unsure about the Akubra sizing issue, and/or is confused as the rest of us of the Akubra color variances and discrepancies that are published. Let me know if any more info or pictures would help.

And it all came in this groovy free Akubra gift box, double boxed in the shipping box. Ended up going with AussieBushHats.com, and they not only gave the best price, but threw in the free gift box and a braided hat chin strap to be attached at the user's discretion. A bit of nice felt, too, to tuck under the hat band if needed for sizing.