Age of Stetson Diamond Pattern Liner and White Paper Description Tag

[Landman]

I can't seem to find a definitive answer to these questions on the forum. When did Stetson start using the diamond pattern liner? Also, when did Stetson start putting the white paper tags in their hats that has the size, style and model number on it? I don't have a picture handy to show you what I'm referring to but can probably find one later. I have one of these hats with it's box and it looks to me like maybe a 1990's hat, possibly 1980's. It was pre-creased in a Cattleman crease but the crown is much softer than the current Open Roads. Thanks for your help.

 

[Lefty]

Dating-Vintage-Stetsons-by-Liner-A-Field-Guide

 

[Landman]

Lefty,

I looked through that thread but couldn't find what I was looking for. Maybe I just missed it.

Below is a picture of the liner and tag I'm referring to. I snagged this picture off of Ebay so it is not of my hat.

 

[barrowjh]

Try page 15 of that thread posts 142 - 146, its a 1980's basically. I'm not sure that we have isolated it to be just that decade, maybe mid-1970s to early 1990s, but I can assure you that Stetson felts with this liner were not the same quality as those we fell in love with from earlier decades. Hatco continues to produce some very high quality felts, but a 1980s 5X is not comparable to a 1950's 3X Beaver. As inflation raised the price of beaver fur for hatmaking, the Xs became more 'flexible' in their meaning, and note that the word 'Beaver' was dropped out of descriptions unless it was a really high-end hat.

 

[Landman]

Thanks barrowjh. I guess I went through that thread too fast and missed those posts. I was thinking 1980's to 1990's. The type on the paper tag looked too "current" I thought for a 1970's hat. The one I have is nice but like you said, is nothing like the 1950's hats. It is a lot softer than the very stiff crowns of the current Open Roads.

 

[53Effie]

I recently acquired an OR 5x Beaver which has a diamond pattern liner similar to Landman's but the diamonds are much smaller. Does that make any difference as to the approximate dating? The band is black and the liner has the same Stetson logo that appears above in Landman's pics. Any thoughts or other references I might pursue? Thanks.

 

[gtdean48]

I recently acquired an OR 5x Beaver which has a diamond pattern liner similar to Landman's but the diamonds are much smaller. Does that make any difference as to the approximate dating? The band is black and the liner has the same Stetson logo that appears above in Landman's pics. Any thoughts or other references I might pursue? Thanks.

Photos of the sweatband would help as well as the liner.

 

[barrowjh]

53Effie, if it actually says 5X Beaver vs just 5X, that is significant in itself.

 

[53Effie]

I am not able to provide pics right now. I wish I could. The hat has to be fairly recent as it has the metric as well as the standard size on the tag. In answer to your question, the band does say 5x Beaver. It is not stiff at all but feels pretty malleable. So, maybe it is reasonably decent quality. I really like it and it very comfortable to wear. From what I have read in other threads, the diamond pattern liner started in the 70's?

 

[gtdean48]

I am not able to provide pics right now. I wish I could. The hat has to be fairly recent as it has the metric as well as the standard size on the tag. In answer to your question, the band does say 5x Beaver. It is not stiff at all but feels pretty malleable. So, maybe it is reasonably decent quality. I really like it and it very comfortable to wear. From what I have read in other threads, the diamond pattern liner started in the 70's?

Right, diamond pattern & as JB stated 5X Beaver is earlier than just 5X. In late 70's there was a change of control with Stetson becoming just a brand instead of a hat maker. On the sweatband, is the part that says 5X Beaver in a square box with a beaver standing on 1 end? Photos would really help. The size tag with the metric size is a "modern" indicator.

 

[53Effie]

Yes, the part that says 5x Beaver is in a box with the beaver on one end. One other thing that I haven't seen often in various threads is that on the upper edge if the sweatband it has JBS printed about every two inches all the way around. You are right about the pictures and I plan to do something before long to remedy that situation. I really appreciate your thoughts. I also picked up another OR that is a
3x that I am sure is older that this one. The crown is slightly taller and shaped a little different and the brim is a little wider as well. It would be nice to post some pictures. Interestingly, the brim on the 5x is just under 2 1/2 inches, about 2 3/8.

 

[gtdean48]

Yes, the part that says 5x Beaver is in a box with the beaver on one end. One other thing that I haven't seen often in various threads is that on the upper edge if the sweatband it has JBS printed about every two inches all the way around. You are right about the pictures and I plan to do something before long to remedy that situation. I really appreciate your thoughts. I also picked up another OR that is a
3x that I am sure is older that this one. The crown is slightly taller and shaped a little different and the brim is a little wider as well. It would be nice to post some pictures. Interestingly, the brim on the 5x is just under 2 1/2 inches, about 2 3/8.

OR came in all kinds of brim widths since early on folks could order a specific brim width. I have held 2" all the way to 3" vintage OR's.
Yep, the "non-modern" version OR's have a taller open crown than the "modern" versions. That is why some of us like the Akubra Campdraft so much. Its crown is the spec Stetson had Akubra make for them in Australia for the Open Road down under & kept the dimensions after the contract ran out.

Does the 3X have a round marking on the sweatband for 3X or is it square?

 

[53Effie]

The 3X has a square marking on the the sweatband with a beaver on one end. On the front of the band it says The Open Road with the two chevrons and also XXX and then Stetson under that. It does not have the metric size marking on the tag and it just looks quite a bit older than the 5X and maybe a bit more substantial in its construction. What is the significance of the markings being in the box on the sweatband and approximately when did they begin to include the metric size on the tag? The 3X does not have the diamond pattern on the liner. Unfortunately, someone has removed all the tags from it except the size tag, so I can't tell what retailer it came from or the original price, which I think would be helpful to know.

 

[gtdean48]

The 3X has a square marking on the the sweatband with a beaver on one end. On the front of the band it says The Open Road with the two chevrons and also XXX and then Stetson under that. It does not have the metric size marking on the tag and it just looks quite a bit older than the 5X and maybe a bit more substantial in its construction. What is the significance of the markings being in the box on the sweatband and approximately when did they begin to include the metric size on the tag? The 3X does not have the diamond pattern on the liner. Unfortunately, someone has removed all the tags from it except the size tag, so I can't tell what retailer it came from or the original price, which I think would be helpful to know.

Do some reading on the Dating Stetsons by.... threads. The older ones had a circular marking that was horizontal on the sweatband instead of vertical like the square ones.
Welcome to the exciting world of Stetson hat deciphering.....

 

[53Effie]

Yes, I think it is really interesting. I have a sense that I may be getting hooked on it. I've read the "Dating by Liners" thread a couple of times as well as the Open Road Guild and Brotherhood of the Thin Ribbon. I will take a look back through the one on liners again as you suggest. Lots of good information...so much that it is a little hard to consolidate it. I have the feeling after all the reading that there is not much really set in stone and that there are overlap periods etc. without specific lines of demarcation. It seems to me that there is more specific information about the characteristics of the earlier hats. Probably because the company and products were more consistent while Stetson was really in control. It is a fun subject to consider though and I hope to eventually gain some adequacy with it.

 

[gtdean48]

.... It seems to me that there is more specific information about the characteristics of the earlier hats. Probably because the company and products were more consistent while Stetson was really in control. It is a fun subject to consider though and I hope to eventually gain some adequacy with it.

Don't get too encouraged because Stetson also had some cross over between their dress hats & their western line. The Open Road seem to straddle that divide, coming to market in both lines.
That is why you'll see some ORs with Last Drop liners then some with Royal Stetson & Royal Deluxe Stetson liners....
There is a thread on Dating by size tags too worth reading.

BTW, I like the peanut gas tank on your avatar. That on a vintage or modern HD?

 

[53Effie]

Thanks GTDean. I didn't realize there was a thread on size tags. I'll look for that. The tank is from my 2009 Nightster. It is a factory paint option called Chizzle Grind I believe. Not too many around. I don't think it gained a lot of popularity.

 

[gtdean48]

Thanks GTDean. I didn't realize there was a thread on size tags. I'll look for that. The tank is from my 2009 Nightster. It is a factory paint option called Chizzle Grind I believe. Not too many around. I don't think it gained a lot of popularity.

Cool. I thought the skull in the 1 was recent. I like the 48 & the new 72.. The Nightster really started it off.
The jacket below was painted from photos of my 1978 FLH & some other vintage drawings....

 

[53Effie]

Wow! That jacket is fantastic. I really like it. It is still snowing here off and on; so I have not been able to get serious about riding yet. Hopefully though, warmer weather is not far off. We kind of go from winter to summer here and forget about spring most years. Two inches of snow on the ground this morning.