Aeromarine update

[majormajor]

The collar question is just one of semantics in my book - I'm not concerned what it's termed, the collar of my LVC Menlo Cossack is executed as precisely as shown in the vintage image and that's all I need to know.

I'm more intrigued by the button spacing (even sadder) which is definitely irregular, with several examples shown with a longer space between the top two buttons.
Presumably this accommodates a folded 'lapel' when the jacket is partially opened (i.e. fastened at the second button)?

This is one aspect that LVC hasn't replicated, nor others for that matter. Given their ability to produce an uncanny copy of the hide, buttons and pattern, I just wonder if this is something that modern tastes simply view as 'wrong'/odd, hence the regular spacing of the buttons?

Any thoughts? I've not seen this arrangement before and I wonder when the layout changed to the conventional spacing. Military A-1 spec (1927) was certainly for regular spacing and buttoned civilian flying jackets seen in e.g. the Spalding catalogue also have 5 or 6 buttons to the torso, regularly spaced (plus two more closely placed buttons to the waistband).

Yup, this was an aspect I mentioned in another thread. And I think your reasoning is spot on.

I think it would look odd nowadays - but hey, we are supposed to be "accuracy" freaks - so I don't know....

For "civilian" use, I can't really see a need to do up the top button (I certainly never do - and I only half-zip an A2, for the same reason), but I guess a biker or a flier would need to.......

And I'm with Sloan. I would soon tire of the "you got a button missing, pal!"......

 

[Edward]

The collar question is just one of semantics in my book - I'm not concerned what it's termed, the collar of my LVC Menlo Cossack is executed as precisely as shown in the vintage image and that's all I need to know.

Yes, let's move on. Some folks like one design, others another. We don't all have to agree...

I must eventually pick up a copy of the Rin book myself. Currently the hefty price tag is just a little high for me. I'd rather put it into a new jacket - whatever the collar shape.

I'm more intrigued by the button spacing (even sadder) which is definitely irregular, with several examples shown with a longer space between the top two buttons.
Presumably this accommodates a folded 'lapel' when the jacket is partially opened (i.e. fastened at the second button)?

This is one aspect that LVC hasn't replicated, nor others for that matter. Given their ability to produce an uncanny copy of the hide, buttons and pattern, I just wonder if this is something that modern tastes simply view as 'wrong'/odd, hence the regular spacing of the buttons?

Any thoughts? I've not seen this arrangement before and I wonder when the layout changed to the conventional spacing. Military A-1 spec (1927) was certainly for regular spacing and buttoned civilian flying jackets seen in e.g. the Spalding catalogue also have 5 or 6 buttons to the torso, regularly spaced (plus two more closely placed buttons to the waistband).

I'm with the chorus - it's a concession to modern sensibilities. Like putting pockets on an Irvin (well.... less extreme, but you get my point). I would presume that the shawl collar was intended to be worn folded out, open, like a blazer, and only buttoned in extremities. Same as a Tweed jacket with a working latch on the lapels. I've had many overcoats over the years which worked similarly.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

So we are now 'Accuracy Freaks' with civi jackets mirroring the A2 contract stitch Nazi's on another forum. This should become interesting. No thanks. I'll just examine various versions available and choose the features that appeal to me and scan past those I think look kinda silly..whether there are those claiming a Peter Pan collar did or didn't exist..or it's not really Peter Panlike afterall(have your eyes checked!). Could care less what page number the original version is on in a certain book. I'd rather buy a well fitting jacket with possibly some desirable unique civi details from the past incorporated into a new jacket style/version. Nice hide leather...lining..pockets,etc. Some leather jacket designs of the '30s..'40s..'50s and even '60s were great..others..not so much. Take away one feature and add another may make all the difference with a civi jacket..at least for me. Refinement.
HD

 

[Sloan1874]

Despite the impracticality of it, there is something quite wrong about seeing an Irvin with pockets. The shawl collar to me is actually incredibly adaptable: in bad weather, or up in the clouds as per it's original role, you button up to the top and flip the collar up, which forms natural V-shape under your chin that goes some way to block out the wind/cold. In better weather, or back on the ground, you unbutton and flatten the collar, and its eminently usable like, as Edward says, a blazer.

 

[thor]

So we are now 'Accuracy Freaks' with civi jackets mirroring the A2 contract stitch Nazi's on another forum. This should become interesting. No thanks. I'll just examine various versions available and choose the features that appeal to me and scan past those I think look kinda silly..whether there are those claiming a Peter Pan collar did or didn't exist..or it's not really Peter Panlike afterall(have your eyes checked!). Could care less what page number the original version is on in a certain book. I'd rather buy a well fitting jacket with possibly some desirable unique civi details from the past incorporated into a new jacket style/version. Nice hide leather...lining..pockets,etc. Some leather jacket designs of the '30s..'40s..'50s and even '60s were great..others..not so much. Take away one feature and add another may make all the difference with a civi jacket..at least for me. Refinement.
HD

+1

 

[Plumbline]

The Scans ( asssuming I'm not breaking any kind of copywrite lwas )

1st the LSCo Menlo Cossack



Next the inspiration for the AL "Simmonds Bilt" (the black one)




things to note .... if we were slaves to detail .........

1. The pockets on the Menlo Cossack ( side entry not patch)
2. Uneven button spacing on the Menlo ( not so the Black one)
3. Very square pockets on the Simmons and the black one
4. Single piece underarm on the Menlo
5. Std. cuff on the black one & cutaway collar
6. One piece back on the Menlo
7. V shaped button placket on the Menlo
8. ALL THREE have proper buckles and holes in the adjustment straps

don't shoot the messenger .... just posting as requested. They are ALL nice old jackets, not for me, but nice old jackets.

 

[hpalapdog]

Good to see a photo with the collar up for a change

 

[bretron]

things to note .... if we were slaves to detail .........

1. The pockets on the Menlo Cossack ( side entry not patch)
2. Uneven button spacing on the Menlo ( not so the Black one)
3. Very square pockets on the Simmons and the black one
4. Single piece underarm on the Menlo
5. Std. cuff on the black one & cutaway collar
6. One piece back on the Menlo
7. V shaped button placket on the Menlo
8. ALL THREE have proper buckles and holes in the adjustment straps

Don't forget unlined

 

[Plumbline]

yup both the Menlo and the Simmons are unlined

the black one id lined in cotton drill.

oh .....

All 3 have side adjustment "V" shaped gussets
Both the Menlo and the Simmons have double button cuffs

I'm sure there are more ... IF we were slaves to detail !

 

[Sir Jacket]

Good to see a photo with the collar up for a change

This one's flippin' gorgeous... but would the Aeromarine come to look like that?

SJ

 

[Dr H]

This one's flippin' gorgeous... but would the Aeromarine come to look like that?

SJ

Possibly, with a thinner hide, plenty (PLENTY) of wear without regard to the purchase price...

There's a fabulous Good Wear Roughwear A-2 on VLJF at the moment - after 3 or 4 years of regular hard wear.

The link is here http://www.goodwearleather.com/photos/Aged_RW_by_GoodWear/
It looks just like the Cooler King (Great Escape) jacket and if this floats your boat you need to contact John Chapman.

 

[Sir Jacket]

Possibly, with a thinner hide, plenty (PLENTY) of wear without regard to the purchase price...

There's a fabulous Good Wear Roughwear A-2 on VLJF at the moment - after 3 or 4 years of regular hard wear.

The link is here http://www.goodwearleather.com/photos/Aged_RW_by_GoodWear/
It looks just like the Cooler King (Great Escape) jacket and if this floats your boat you need to contact John Chapman.

Nice comparison. I have an A-1 on order from John. One day it will come!

 

[bretron]

It would take me 12 lifetimes to break in a leather jacket to that extent. man o man! Who wants to wear just one jacket though, right?

 

[ButteMT61]

It would take me 12 lifetimes to break in a leather jacket to that extent. man o man! Who wants to wear just one jacket though, right?

Like I have said before - nobody here ever wears out a jacket. Those awesome looking A-2's were worn by guys that flew in B-17's, got shot at, loaded ammo in the snow and rain, did maintenance and other things. We're all lucky if we wear one with the car windows down lol

 

[bretron]

Haha! So true. I've been lucky with my Ostermann GW in that its "flown a lot of missions" since acquiring it, because I pretty much dumped my collection to fund three other jackets (all coming down the pike). There is no doubt that leather jackets deserve some good wear (sorry for the lame pun).