Aero Leather Clothing trial update

[Grayland]

I have enough leather jackets (for now!), but this court case has zero impact on whether or not I'd buy from AL. I don't currently have an AL, but I've seen some very nice ones and I'd certainly buy/wear one if the price/fit was right.

I wouldn't send my retirement savings to WL for him to invest, but I'd let AL make me a jacket in return for my money. What he did was wrong, but I'm not asking him (or AL) to be the godfather for my children.

 

[tropicalbob]

Two observations:
1) One thing's for sure, 99.9% of companies would kill to have such brand interest and loyalty.
2) Whoever said "Honesty is the best policy" sure knew what they were talking about. Like Obi-Wan told Luke, "Once you go over the the dark side it will forever control your destiny " (or something like that).

And, as Mom used to say (fairly often) "Oh, what a tangled web we weave...."

 

[Benny Holiday]

It simply comes down to a matter of ethics and ethical practices. For a long time I was neutral on the topic of AL. I didn't understand much of the background of the company. I found it interesting that, having an Aero halfbelt, another company with products so similar to Aero's should start up also in Scotland, but hey, I live on the other side of the world, what do I know?

Knowing what we know now, though, I view the whole business a lot differently. Look at the way folks here talk about companies with respect: Aero and John Chapman most of all, with very favourable testimonies about products and workmanship from Eastman, Norshor and Johnson Leather next. Even BK, with whom some folks have expressed issues or problems, have never been painted over and over and over again as acting unethical.

Looking at the balance sheet, the way the Calders have run their business and the way they've treated their customers, versus the way another particular company came into being, screams volumes to me.

It's as simple as that from my perspective.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

It 'is' as simple as that, Benny, and then add on AL's feeble attempt to recently cover up what was once WL's front page introduction of this new company as the first MD of AL and it seems obvious that honesty still seems sometimes very inconvenient for them. Evidently they never dreamed that a member here would/could capture some previous web statements and dig up some revealing facts from the past. I think there is a way out of this mess for AL...but not so sure that they have the ingenuity to make amends of any kind or even change in a needed new direction.
HD

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I can't help but keep coming back to the point of...letting Aero be the actual Aero looking line...LW with their own defined creations...same with ELC..BK..and the Japanese makers. If almost a whole line of leather jackets from a new company are often difficult to tell whether they are Aeros or not 'unless you read the label'..or notice a pocket is at a slightly different angle...someone (guess who) is simply getting ripped off.
HD

 

[Big J]

I can't help but keep coming back to the point of...letting Aero be the actual Aero looking line...LW with their own defined creations...same with ELC..BK..and the Japanese makers. If almost a whole line of leather jackets from a new company are often difficult to tell whether they are Aeros or not 'unless you read the label'..or notice a pocket is at a slightly different angle...someone (guess who) is simply getting ripped off.
HD

Yeah, it's not like Will Lauder had copies of the Aero patterns made, and then took them to Alexander Leathers who used the patterns to make thier products.
Oh, wait....!

 

[Otter]

Having said all the above, I do like the Simmons Bilt they are offering as a special at the moment.

 

[I would go out tonight]

As we near the conclusion of the trial, I would just like to thank Sloan for his efforts and the time he has taken to update us.

For the staff employed at AL I hope they do not go under. However, as I mentioned earlier they have to find their own identity. In a market where customers can pay £300 for jeans, a jacket that is clearly a copy of a more expensive brand will not cut it. A bit like wearing a GROLEX or Timmy Hilfinger polo shirt.

 

[Don Tomaso]

I have enough leather jackets (for now!), but this court case has zero impact on whether or not I'd buy from AL. I don't currently have an AL, but I've seen some very nice ones and I'd certainly buy/wear one if the price/fit was right.

I wouldn't send my retirement savings to WL for him to invest, but I'd let AL make me a jacket in return for my money. What he did was wrong, but I'm not asking him (or AL) to be the godfather for my children.

Amen!

My point entirely. WL did something very wrong, he stole things and ideas from his employer and he will be punished for that, no question. But then, this is over and done, that's my take. My relation to Aeroleather or a possible future relation to AL, SB, GW or whoever would be a customer-relation, my money for their goods. Did Aero invent the leather-jacket? Did KC invent it? Heck, no, "Aeroleather" was the name of a now defunct company KC bought, he didn't even invent this. The famous "Highwayman" is, openly said on the webpage, the copy of a jacket from the then famous, now evenly defunct company "Highwayman". Most designs are "interpretations" of long known jacket-styles. I mean, how many ways are there to design a half-belt??
Maybe WL stole patterns, most likely so. Then this was theft, no question. But you guys do as if KC single-handedly invented the leather jacket and all, as if before HIM nobody ever wore garments made of tanned animal-skins. A bit over the top, isn't it?
And the Roadster still looks good to me, albeit my budget this year went into the Teamster

 

[Big J]

Amen!

My point entirely. WL did something very wrong, he stole things and ideas from his employer and he will be punished for that, no question. But then, this is over and done, that's my take. My relation to Aeroleather or a possible future relation to AL, SB, GW or whoever would be a customer-relation, my money for their goods. Did Aero invent the leather-jacket? Did KC invent it? Heck, no, "Aeroleather" was the name of a now defunct company KC bought, he didn't even invent this. The famous "Highwayman" is, openly said on the webpage, the copy of a jacket from the then famous, now evenly defunct company "Highwayman". Most designs are "interpretations" of long known jacket-styles. I mean, how many ways are there to design a half-belt??
Maybe WL stole patterns, most likely so. Then this was theft, no question. But you guys do as if KC single-handedly invented the leather jacket and all, as if before HIM nobody ever wore garments made of tanned animal-skins. A bit over the top, isn't it?
And the Roadster still looks good to me, albeit my budget this year went into the Teamster

I get your point, there were leather jackets before Aero.
But I think the big difference is that Ken bought the rights to the Aero name and patterns legally. As for the other jackets, yeah, Ken designed patterns based on jackets of popular styles that were no longer in production.
That all seems fair and square to me; buying the legal right to a name, and being a skilled workman who can take apart a jacket from years back, and make a whole range of size patterns based on personal skill.

Just receiving stolen patterns requires no effort of design and skill. What's the name of Alexander Leathers designer? Oh, that's right, they've never mentioned whoever it was who designed thier jackets and made a complete range of sized patterns.
No wonder thier costs are so low they can undercut Aero. Aero put in all the design and development.

Seriously, you want to do business with people like that?
The reason Aero gets defended here is because of Kens awesome customer service ethos; look at how he handled customers who were cheated by Moyles and the Storse fraud.

Then compare that ethos to the ethos of a company that would use stolen patterns. I couldn't trust such a company.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

So, DT...it seems you are saying that Aero..LW...GW...and ELC leather utility jackets really do not have their own distinct style and that it is very difficult to tell any of these company jackets apart..? Since they all are repros of vintage leather jackets there just can't be that much difference among any of them. AL &, the now defunct, Sam Walker do not very closely resemble Aero's line of jackets? It was said by Aero that SW sold Aero jackets until they decided to copy Ken's jackets...so much so..that many thought that Aero made the SW leather jackets and labeled them as SW for some odd reason....but they didn't. You can't tell a LW 'Suburban' HB from others?...or a GW style HB design from an Aero HB? Oh really? Although many others seem to distinguish those differences very easily. Or is it just that that doesn't really matter, either way. I suspect it's the latter.
HD

 

[AdeeC]

I get your point, there were leather jackets before Aero.
But I think the big difference is that Ken bought the rights to the Aero name and patterns legally. As for the other jackets, yeah, Ken designed patterns based on jackets of popular styles that were no longer in production.
That all seems fair and square to me; buying the legal right to a name, and being a skilled workman who can take apart a jacket from years back, and make a whole range of size patterns based on personal skill.

Just receiving stolen patterns requires no effort of design and skill. What's the name of Alexander Leathers designer? Oh, that's right, they've never mentioned whoever it was who designed thier jackets and made a complete range of sized patterns.
No wonder thier costs are so low they can undercut Aero. Aero put in all the design and development.

Seriously, you want to do business with people like that?
The reason Aero gets defended here is because of Kens awesome customer service ethos; look at how he handled customers who were cheated by Moyles and the Storse fraud.

Then compare that ethos to the ethos of a company that would use stolen patterns. I couldn't trust such a company.

Even cheap Chinese copyists show more integrity. They usually buy a piece of apparel and get their own people to break it down and create patterns. Then again other respectable makers would do the same to get a piece of a hot item.

 

[Big J]

Even cheap Chinese copyists show more integrity. They usually buy a piece of apparel and get their own people to break it down and create patterns. Then again other respectable makers would do the same to get a piece of a hot item.

I agree!
There is a finite choice of vintage jackets from which to draw inspiration, so many makers will offer similar styles BUT with different features and cuts because the patterns are original to the manufacturer.
This is why I want to know;
Who is Alexander Leathers designer?
What are thier inspirations?
Why is thier identity a secret?

 

[Superfluous]

Supplementing BigJ's and HD's sage comments, it requires a considerable investment of time and money to create patterns for a repro jacket after the "design" is determined. For every size, a pattern has to be created for every individual piece of the jacket. Optimal lengths and widths must be determined to achieve the desired look. Every single piece, in every size, has to perfectly align with every adjacent piece in every size. This requires extensive trial and error to ensure proper sizing of every piece.

While KC clearly did not invent the leather jacket, he did invest the substantial time and money necessary to create the patterns for his jackets. As such, he earned the right to produce jackets using his patterns.

I don't know the source of AL's jacket patterns. However, given the significant time required to create patterns, I personally find it extraordinary and inexplicable that AL could bring so many individual models to market so quickly (see prior timeline). I likewise find it more than a little suspicious that one of AL's founders had Aero's patterns at his house at or about the same time that AL suddenly introduced so many models in such a short period. The similarities between AL's jackets and Aero's jackets heighten my suspicions. There may be a perfectly reasonable explanation for the foregoing, but AL has declined to share it.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I agree!
There is a finite choice of vintage jackets from which to draw inspiration, so many makers will offer similar styles BUT with different features and cuts because the patterns are original to the manufacturer.
This is why I want to know;
Who is Alexander Leathers designer?
What are thier inspirations?
Why is thier identity a secret?

Don't forget the ex-Aero employee that was coming in several hours early before regular shift workers to sew up many Aero jackets for some reason without pay. Perhaps it paid off in other ways. Maybe he became an assistant designer somewhere else. Ya reckon..?

 

[Big J]

Supplementing BigJ's and HD's sage comments, it requires a considerable investment of time and money to create patterns for a repro jacket after the "design" is determined. For every size, a pattern has to be created for every individual piece of the jacket. Optimal lengths and widths must be determined to achieve the desired look. Every single piece, in every size, has to perfectly align with every adjacent piece in every size. This requires extensive trial and error to ensure proper sizing of every piece.

While KC clearly did not invent the leather jacket, he did invest the substantial time and money necessary to create the patterns for his jackets. As such, he earned the right to produce jackets using his patterns.

I don't know the source of AL's jacket patterns. However, given the significant time required to create patterns, I personally find it extraordinary and inexplicable that AL could bring so many individual models to market so quickly (see prior timeline). I likewise find it more than a little suspicious that one of AL's founders had Aero's patterns at his house at or about the same time that AL suddenly introduced so many models in such a short period. The similarities between AL's jackets and Aero's jackets heighten my suspicions. There may be a perfectly reasonable explanation for the foregoing, but AL has declined to share it.

+1

 

[rocketeer]

Hi, I put the pic of Mr Lauder on here. Why? Well to be honest I dont take my leather jacket hobby too seriously. To me they are just great clothes, the top of their class and just about everything else cannot touch an Aero for quality and customer service, in my humble opinion. Also, and maybe a more justifiable reason for posting this photo was a friend of mine did have the horse/steer problem with a jacket, so thats the basics
I guess this has been the most popular topic in the Outerwear section, and does not even cover any particular design, over 120 pages so far. And I have noticed that some of Will's supporters have been rather absent from posting, though not all I suspect as I have not looked at every post.
Well there we are, hit me with your best shots if you wish, I can take it, though I doubt I will post anything else here. Though I will post in a few topics as usual.
Seeya, J.

 

[ProteinNerd]

21 months .....ouch!

 

[Bunyip]

21 months .....ouch!

My word ouch! Scottish Courts made of sterner stuff than our guys.....

 

[Otter]

One of the largest monetary frauds dealt with by the Sherrif Court system, they could have gone up to 3 years on the charges I believe.