Aero Leather Clothing trial update

[Sloan1874]

It was more than a year between Bertie completing copying the factory patterns and Will returning the set he had in his house. Make of that what you will.

 

[pawineguy]

It was more than a year between Bertie completing copying the factory patterns and Will returning the set he had in his house. Make of that what you will.

Got it, thank you. The timeline is the important bit.

 

[Fanch]

Very interesting read Sloan. Thanks.

 

[Big J]

All will be explained in two days time, Big J.

I'm looking forward to it ψ(｀∇´)ψ

 

[Monitor]

Crazy interesting read. I just can't quite wrap my head around why did all the machinists leave like that, and why were Calders such a problem for everyone all of the sudden.

 

[Otter]

All good stuff, I for one am looking forward to the background of the whole storse debacle.

 

[I would go out tonight]

Crazy interesting read. I just can't quite wrap my head around why did all the machinists leave like that, and why were Calders such a problem for everyone all of the sudden.

I think WL had thought of Aero as his company. Certainly some of the machinists thought that WL 'built the company up'. I would also guess that once in that mindset the behaviour he exhibited did not feel dishonest and was easier to rationalise. From the testimony it sounds like WL was threatened by HC and DC starting to work for their Dad's company.

Do we know for sure yet that the copy patterns ended up at AL?

 

[Sloan1874]

Posts #500/#501

 

[wdw]

I'm curious why Julie Leitch, who's a highly experienced machinist, probably of long standing at Aero, chose to be one of the very few who didn't desert the Calders and move on to ostensibly secure employment at AL.

At that point, given the mass departures and financial mess, it must have seemed like Aero was in imminent danger of folding, yet she chose to stay and ride out the storm by helping the Calders.

Maybe she wasn't taken in by the tales WL was giving the staff and felt that something wasn't right. Her skills and experience must have contributed greatly to the Calders being able to refloat the sinking ship.

There's a whole human dimension to this saga that's still to be uncovered.

 

[Big J]

I don't get the part where WL fires some chick, and then she marries him!
Such a great way of winning over a lady;
'Come into my office. Bad news is you're fired, good news is I'm free on Saturday night you lucky lady!'?

 

[Edward]

And that CRIMINAL is now at AL with perhaps stolen Aero patterns.

As a point of law, information cannot be stolen (Oxford v Moss(1979)). There ws no suggestion that the original Aero patterns were removed from the factory, simply copied and the copies removed. In English law this does not constitute theft. The relevant law is civil law, specifically intellectual propoerty and copyright in the patterns, which, as discussed, was still valid despite the designs being historical and long out of the protection period.

"The US and Britain, divided by a common language" -attributed in various forms to Oscar Wilde, George Bernard Shaw and Churchill et al.

Definitely not Churchill, but it is debateable which of the other two said it. I lean in favour of GBS, myself - just has the ring more of him.

I'm glad things are turning positive for Aero, but what about the customers like me that spent upwards of 10 grand on jackets ordered through Mark M. and the previous MG (Will) that took us for a ride! Wrong measurements 6 and 8 month waiting periods only to have the jackets sent back and wait for the corrected ones for more months. I stopped buying from Aero because things started tasting bad with all the negative in house drama from the customers point of view. I was a vary loyal customer even planned to make a vacation and visit Scotland and stop by Aero. How does Aero get back customers that were affected by all of this?

Todd

It's an uphill struggle, certainly. I suppose Aero will aim to do this by improving wait times, continuing to offer a high end product and the improved customer service they now have, and so on. They have gone out of their way to replace at significant cost a lot of jackets involved in both the Moyes and Storse episodes. I'd like to hope they'll get past it - they certainly don't deserve to suffer for the actions of now ex staff. What they have in their favour is that in a small, niche market like this word gets around pretty fast when things change, so that should help. I believe they've also had a lot of loyalty from the vast majority of their stockists internationally, which undoubtely helps.

While many seem to focus on the pattern and the intellectual properties, there are many other secrets and confidential information involved in a case like this. Take for example,, the time and money spent by Aero in sourcing thru trial and error the right Talon repro from the right supplier. That former employee is bringing with him all information like where to source the right materials and how much Aero is paying for them to the new company without incurring any costs or spending any time. Also are the poaching of staff because the former employee would know exactly who to poach while an outsider would not.

Yes, there's a huge amount of business know-how in any specialist trade (this is why 'gardening leave' of several months is so often built into some employment contracts, such as major city law firms). There is some degree of protection available in confidentialty, but not a lot. Of course, it has to be balanced out by an employee's right to take their labour and skill elsewhere, which makes it all the more difficult.

 

[ProteinNerd]

What I don't understand is how a company with a 6 month backlog of orders at the time was apparently doing so badly financially?

 

[apba1166]

Sloan, thank you. I think you've got a book in this. Beyond the reportage: the personal and lifelong sides of some of the main "characters." There's the family biz and all those dynamics, KC's unique business and personality, before WL becomes the next generation, then the long relationship btw KC and WL, obviously the craft and vision and products and the business side etc...but also the relationships btw all the craftspeople in one of the few hand-made sectors left, and of course the fanatical, obsessed customers. It's a lot more than a true crime piece, which alone is publishable within the long hallowed genre of books about swindles. I am not condoning theft under any circumstances, but the pressures that drove WL might be the most interesting piece of the story, if unearthed. A man in a made-by-hand business working those type hours, obsessively, who envisions the business and products his own, I think, can be fascinating story.
Let me know when you get a deal so I can option the film rights...! -MM

 

[wdw]

Wasn't the reduction in staff Sloan mentions one way to make the balance sheet look better, in that the company had less costs, thus partially offsetting any diversion of revenue.

Of course, the flip side of less staff is a longer waiting time. 6 months it seems like. That could be spun to sound like a success for the company, until someone looks under the carpet.

 

[Big J]

I'm glad things are turning positive for Aero, but what about the customers like me that spent upwards of 10 grand on jackets ordered through Mark M. and the previous MG (Will) that took us for a ride! Wrong measurements 6 and 8 month waiting periods only to have the jackets sent back and wait for the corrected ones for more months. I stopped buying from Aero because things started tasting bad with all the negative in house drama from the customers point of view. I was a vary loyal customer even planned to make a vacation and visit Scotland and stop by Aero. How does Aero get back customers that were affected by all of this?

Todd

I hear you. But I think that Ken is an astute business man. He's honored all customer orders from the Moyles fraud, and tested and replaced 'storse' jackets. I think that buys a lot of goodwill, you can't beat that for customer service.
After uncovering the scale of WL's fraud and disruption of the workforce, Ken has hired new staff, and has trained them up, hence all the low priced 'apprentice made' jackets they were selling a short while ago.

It is a small community of people who really know all the in's and out's of these products, people like us, and we know Ken is sound. Customers that are rich enough to buy the jackets because of the way they look in a window without having to worry about the price won't know or care about the scandal, I imagine.

In my opinion, Ken's already made up for the whole thing. Aero is always good in my books.

 

[Azog]

Now here's a thought. Did we ever find out which UK company supposedly took over Bill Kelso? Could it possibly be Alexander Leathers?

 

[pawineguy]

Yes, there's a huge amount of business know-how in any specialist trade (this is why 'gardening leave' of several months is so often built into some employment contracts, such as major city law firms). There is some degree of protection available in confidentialty, but not a lot. Of course, it has to be balanced out by an employee's right to take their labour and skill elsewhere, which makes it all the more difficult.

Yes, exactly. The leaving and poaching of employees is actually the least worrisome to me, from a legal (but not moral) standpoint. Either he had a contract that forbid that or he didn't. And usually those contracts have a set, small period to them as you note. Most employment contracts in the U.S. are over reaching and end up being unenforceable, unless something more nefarious is involved outside of just wanting to work for someone else.

 

[pawineguy]

Wasn't the reduction in staff Sloan mentions one way to make the balance sheet look better, in that the company had less costs, thus partially offsetting any diversion of revenue.

Of course, the flip side of less staff is a longer waiting time. 6 months it seems like. That could be spun to sound like a success for the company, until someone looks under the carpet.

Without seeing the actual books for the time period it's hard to know if the six month wait was prosperity or a red herring caused by inadequate staffing. In Sloan's first installment, we read that Ken realized that Will was selling jackets BELOW cost, necessitating an instant price increase. Six months wait to produce an unprofitable jacket is not very good business.

I'm reminded of the line that a CEO I worked for often used when negotiating (he was a very adept negotiator) - when the other company would tell us they would be losing money on every unit at a particular price, he would look very serious, pause a moment, and then tell them they would make it up in volume. These would be fixed cost items that the only thing that would happen with volume is losing more money.

 

[gtdean48]

Without seeing the actual books for the time period it's hard to know if the six month wait was prosperity or a red herring caused by inadequate staffing. In Sloan's first installment, we read that Ken realized that Will was selling jackets BELOW cost, necessitating an instant price increase. Six months wait to produce an unprofitable jacket is not very good business.

I'm reminded of the line that a CEO I worked for often used when negotiating (he was a very adept negotiator) - when the other company would tell us they would be losing money on every unit at a particular price, he would look very serious, pause a moment, and then tell them they would make it up in volume. These would be fixed cost items that the only thing that would happen with volume is losing more money.

Old business school joke = "We lose money on every deal, but we make it up with volume!"

 

[Big J]

Without seeing the actual books for the time period it's hard to know if the six month wait was prosperity or a red herring caused by inadequate staffing. In Sloan's first installment, we read that Ken realized that Will was selling jackets BELOW cost, necessitating an instant price increase. Six months wait to produce an unprofitable jacket is not very good business.

I'm reminded of the line that a CEO I worked for often used when negotiating (he was a very adept negotiator) - when the other company would tell us they would be losing money on every unit at a particular price, he would look very serious, pause a moment, and then tell them they would make it up in volume. These would be fixed cost items that the only thing that would happen with volume is losing more money.

At the time, I got really grumpy with Aero about a wait on two jackets. Reading all of this, boy, do I feel embarrassed now!