Aero Hookless - solid brass or?..

[Curt]

Hello,
I am wondering what these modern hookless repro zippers are made of. It was supposed to be a brass, but after just a few weeks of using it is turning out white. It also appears to be wearing off quickly.
I was expecting to get a solid brass zipper, which would last for years, but now.. i'm concerned.
I would appreciate if you guys post a photo of your hookless zippers after 1-2-.. years of use.
Thank you!

 

[Curt]

UPD

For those of you who are interested what your repro zippers are made of, this is an answer from Asahi/Waldes, who is the manufacturer of these zippers:

This slider is made of Zinc.
So we must plate to gold.
As using slider, it will come off the plating and appear the material(Zinc).

To me it sounds crazy.. why not using the solid brass for the slider? how much would it add to the zipper cost, $5? $10?..

The Hookless zipper looks cool and I haven't had any issues using it so far, but it's quite disappoiniting to know that I'll need to replace the slider in 1 or 2 years, as a zinc die-cast will definitely wear off.

 

[Carlos840]

I have to say i agree with you.
And like you i would love to know what kind of savings that represents for the maker over using solid brass, it does feel like a cheap cost cutting measure.

I have the same issue with the Vanson zippers, they call them brass, but only the teeth are brass, the pullers are also plated in a cheap looking gold. Not a fan of that either:

 

[zebedee]

I have to say i agree with you.
And like you i would love to know what kind of savings that represents for the maker over using solid brass, it does feel like a cheap cost cutting measure.

I have the same issue with the Vanson zippers, they call them brass, but only the teeth are brass, the pullers are also plated in a cheap looking gold. Not a fan of that either:

Are hookless zippers more durable than the normal Talon zippers? The fading doesn't worry me too much (although the nickel Talons do wear down to base very quickly), but the functionality is a consideration.

 

[Carlos840]

Are hookless zippers more durable than the normal Talon zippers? The fading doesn't worry me too much (although the nickel Talons do wear down to base very quickly), but the functionality is a consideration.

I couldn't tell you, i have no experience with the Aero Hookless zipper.
I have read a million horror stories on it but have never owned one for any length of time.
My only Hookless experience is the Whizzer branded one on my LaBrea and it is great.

To me it's more a question of patina/looks than durability.
A brass puller will dull and patina, and will match the solid brass teeth, whereas a "gold" plated one like on the vanson will shine like crazy forever, the CHP posted above is 15 years old!
I would rather it dulled down with time.

 

[Carlos840]

Are hookless zippers more durable than the normal Talon zippers? The fading doesn't worry me too much (although the nickel Talons do wear down to base very quickly), but the functionality is a consideration.

Here, i tried taking pictures to illustrate what i mean, but the difference isn't as obviously in pics as it is in real life.
Real brass on the left, crappy gold plating on the right:

The Vanson is 15 years old and all the pullers are still fake shiny, the DD was barely worn but all the pullers are dull brass

 

[zebedee]

Here, i tried taking pictures to illustrate what i mean, but the difference isn't as obviously in pics as it is in real life.
Real brass on the left, crappy gold plating on the right:

The Vanson is 15 years old and all the pullers are still fake shiny, the DD was barely worn but all the pullers are dull brass

The genuine article is always better...

 

[handymike]

I thought Waldes was solid brass. At least a few years ago they used uncoated brass that tarnished rather quickly.

 

[Mr Knight]

Interesting and a little disappointing on behalf of the manufacturer for cost cutting in this manner, part of the appeal of brass zippers is to have them age alongside the rest of the jacket.

Hopefully the nickel equivalent doesn’t have the same issue.

 

[Captain Sensible]

Some of the repo Talons are not great. Had to replace a matte nickel one on a fairly new Eastman Windward, the slider just stopped knitting the teeth together, on removal there was wear apparent inside the slider channels/guides. For replacement I went for old YKK style with the flat tab, with detail etched in as oppose to moulded.

 

[Blackadder]

I have to say i agree with you.
And like you i would love to know what kind of savings that represents for the maker over using solid brass, it does feel like a cheap cost cutting measure.

I have the same issue with the Vanson zippers, they call them brass, but only the teeth are brass, the pullers are also plated in a cheap looking gold. Not a fan of that either:

A possible reason is to match the other hardware on the jacket. For example, the Vanson Chopper has shinny buckles, rivets and snaps etc that are coated/plated gold.

 

[Mr Knight]

To add further to your question, the rest of the zip construction appears to be brass (see bottom of linked page):

http://www.waldes.co.jp/open2.html

Nowhere else on the site does it state zinc die-casting for the slider other than here where it stipulates the two processes of which a metallic slider is manufactured:

http://www.waldes.co.jp/concept2.html

This is the first instance where I’ve seen a newer brass Talon/Hookless wear through to show a zinc base material on an Aero jacket as it doesn’t seem commonly reported, I was always under the impression they were all brass.

What happens to nickel plated repro Hookless sliders after some wear? I’m assuming they’re zinc-based too and not brass as previously thought?

Obviously this is not an issue in terms of durability and this will purely be cosmetic.

 

[Skyhawk]

This is an interesting topic because there is some contention between the materials used on those early Hookless zippers and the bell shaped Talons that came shortly after. The Brass ones were.....well, Brass. Where the nickel ones are concerned though, they were nickel plated. The base metal is said to be either steel or alloy of iron. This could depend on the series or era they were made, or could be one or the other. Info seems sketchy on that fact.
WE NEED A METAL SMITH AMONG US TO DO SOME TESTING STAT!

 

[Curt]

Obviously this is not an issue in terms of durability and this will purely be cosmetic.

Well, the durability of zinc slider IS an issue - if you look at the slider photos in my first post here, it can be seen that it's not only the coating, but the zinc itself wears off, obvioulsy by rubbing through heavy leather. And this is only after one month of use. I am pretty sure this wouldn't have happened with the solid brass slider.

That's why I asked you guys to show your 'brass' Hookless after some long time use.

 

[Mr Knight]

This is probably a casualty of the times we live in with cost reductions, lean manufacturing optimisation and globalisation.

Your average joe customer won’t particularly care what his zipper is made from and his only consideration would be “do I want silver or gold hardware” so no doubt Waldes have followed this thought process to shave excess expenditure out of their manufacturing operations without compromising product quality, the Japanese are masters of this art and it’s no coincidence that Waldes comes under the Asahi banner.

I was contemplating a brass Hookless for my next purchase after the lockdown but seeing them do this I’m beginning to consider going for nickel

Well, the durability of zinc slider IS an issue - if you look at the slider photos in my first post here, it can be seen that it's not only the coating, but the zinc itself wears off, obvioulsy by rubbing through heavy leather. And this is only after one month of use. I am pretty sure this wouldn't have happened with the solid brass slider.

That's why I asked you guys to show your 'brass' Hookless after some long time use.

I did notice the rounded corners and figured it was somewhat odd, I’ve had 3 jackets from Aero (1 FQHH, 2 Vicenza) with brass Talon hardware and didn’t notice this kind of wear on them, potentially you’ve had the misfortune of a bad batch? Going by my own experience and the fact you don’t see hundred of people screaming the same issue.

 

[Captain Sensible]

The Talon I mentioned

 

[Mr Knight]

View attachment 229067 View attachment 229068 View attachment 229069 View attachment 229070 View attachment 229071
The Talon I mentioned

I’m assuming Aero uses Japanese made Talon hardware, I wasn’t aware repro Talon’s were still made in the USA?

 

[Skyhawk]

I’m assuming Aero uses Japanese made Talon hardware, I wasn’t aware repro Talon’s were still made in the USA?

Talon will do it, but it is a 10,000 unit minimum or something close to that. If you have $50,000 to drop on a zipper order, they will do it.

 

[Skyhawk]

Not sure where those are coming from but essentially if they can stamp the Talon on there, they can stamp the made in USA on there as well. Could be not necessarily actually made in the USA just because it has the stamp.

 

[Mr Knight]

Talon will do it, but it is a 10,000 unit minimum or something close to that. If you have $50,000 to drop on a zipper order, they will do it.

I stand corrected

Not sure where those are coming from but essentially if they can stamp the Talon on there, they can stamp the made in USA on there as well. Could be not necessarily actually made in the USA just because it has the stamp.

The old ‘Made in X’ is a tedious debate, though the official view from the Federal Trade Commission is that the item must be “all or virtually all” made in the USA but this can simply be that final assembly occurred there.

Anyway, back to the original posters subject regarding repro hookless.....