Aero Cheyenne issue – defect? expected?

[Southernwayfare]

I recently ordered an Aero Cheyenne in brown FQHH. The coat I received had two problems – 1) the coat had storm cuffs in the sleeves that I did not request and as far as I understood should not have been in the coat and 2) a small but significant issue with the leather that I felt was a defect – a split in the leather at a seam.

I would like to emphasize that Aero has been extremely accommodating about these issues. Regarding the first issue, Aero agreed that the cuffs should not have been put in the coat. They offered me several options to move forward.

I can tell the whole story in a later post but for now I have a specific question regarding the second issue. As soon as I tried it on, I noticed what at first appeared to be a speck of paper on the coat because it was a much lighter color on the brown background. Upon closer inspection I saw that it was a split in the leather at the seam on the upper chest where the leather is folded and bent around the end of the coat. (Apologies if this is not a very good description, I am not sure of the exact terminology to describe the location.) Below are few photos - the first photo is of the coat as it arrived, the second photo indicates the location of the defect from a distance, the third and fourth photos shows a close up of the split in the leather, and the fifth photo shows the other side as a reference.

My questions to the forum members and specifically Aero owners are:
1) Do you agree that this is an unacceptable defect in a new coat out of the box?
2) Should I expect something like this to eventually happen to the leather?

I was hesitant to air this issue but I have been told that there is no guarantee that this will not happen again. I am not the type of person to nitpick but in this case I feel that given the expectation of quality and workmanship with this purchase this tear/rip in the leather is unacceptable in a brand new coat. I’m wondering if I am being unreasonable?

 

[H.Johnson]

I call this a fault. It's possibly caused by the sewing machine foot gouging a slight scuff in the surface of the leather slightly when the top-stitch machining was done. Folding the leather to form the edge seam has probably caused it to expand - with heavy leather like this it is difficult to get the edge to fold smoothly and the ridge formed when folding sometimes snags the machine foot. It happens, as they say, but having been a customer of Aero since the middle 1980s I would not expect them to pass this.

You could make it less obvious with an appropriately coloured 'scuff cover' or shoe heel polish, but it will still be visible. I respectfully suggest that only you can decide whether youre eye will always be drawn to it.

 

[OneEyeMan]

I received my Highwayman over the weekend.
It has a very similar "slice" off the top of a folded seam at the shoulder.
It is only the top surface, however, and in reality is only a slight cosmetic abberation.
If you'll look further down, you'll see my post about my jacket with pix. I did a follow up noting the flaws I found in the jacket. I didn't even consider this slice a flaw.
In the past, I would've obsessed over it endlessly.
Now, it barely even registers to me.
I covered it with a dab of brown shoe polish.
I fully expect to wear my jacket in all conditions.
And I'm sure there will be more gouges, scrapes, and worn off top coatings of the leather as the years go by.
Not a problem to me, but only you can make the call on your own particular jacket.
Just realize, nothing that is man made will be perfect.
Lenny

 

[Pilgrim]

It doesn't appear to be deep enough to compromise the leather. Over the years as you wear it, you'll put your share of scratches on it. I'm generally picky, but IMO this is not something that justifies replacing the item. I vote to dab some Lexol on it and forget about it.

 

[Cooperson]

I can understand how some might be upset by a mark like this in a new coat, but this is after all very heavy hide crafted using some serious sewing machines. Myself, I would tend view it as a litte 'battle scar' as I'm sure many more will appear during it's long life. As others have said, it could be concealed quite easily with a bit of polish or scuff cover.

It's a stunning looking coat, enjoy!

 

[Southernwayfare]

Just to be clear, this is not a scuff or a scratch. Although the photos do not clearly show it, the leather surface has split open.

 

[scottyrocks]

I would send it back and have them send me another jacket without the stormcuffs and the damage.

 

[bobjones]

Just to be clear, this is not a scuff or a scratch. Although the photos do not clearly show it, the leather surface has split open.

Hi Southern. Ok, a few things.

I received my first Aero FQHH last March and was neurotic waiting for it to say the least. Once I got it, I studied the jacket VERY carefully as I had never had so expensive a leather jacket, let alone one made of horsehide. Also, I violated a major purchasing rule of mine of not trying on before buying, so I also had no idea whatsoever of the fit.

A year plus later, my Stockman is scuffed and softening - where the buttons fit there is greater scuffing than your picture shows, but, and this is what is hard to accept - I believe the leather is designed to do this.

It is an item designed to quickly obtain that old, "vintage" look, so to achieve this, the dye does not go all the way through. This way when the top layer is scuffed or removed, a lighter layer can be seen, giving the appearance of a 40-50 year old coat your grandfather handed down.

I even posted pictures about this on mine, as I was worried as the jacket changed as you are now:

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll104/bobjones_aero/100_2069.jpg

You can see the same type of color removal as the layer of dye around the button holes has been removed.

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll104/bobjones_aero/9720copy.jpg

As you can see from the second pic, that to an untrained eye, the button looks like it might actually pull through the leather, but this is not the case.

Compare these shots to the coat brand new:

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll104/bobjones_aero/IMG_0004.jpg

IMHO, your fears, while understandable, are unfounded as the coat looks superb. You will see that with heavy wear, many, many other parts of the coat will take upon this same worn look.

I think the storm cuff issue - which I also have in my Hwyman about 3 hours out of the box - might actually be a bigger problem, as I wrote in my thread:

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=42056

-----------

I do want to point out that if it is indeed a genuine tear in the leather, then the jacket would need to be repaired/replaced, but I cannot tell for sure from your pictures...

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Maybe I am the forgiving type but I agree with the other posters that the "damage" is not a big deal. I just got my Highwayman in early June and it has several "flaws" in the leather that look worse than the ones pictured above.

The way I figure it, this jacket is going to see wear well in excess of the cosmetic imperfections that came with the jacket so it's no big deal.

To be clear, I can't really see a "split" -- only finish damage -- so I'm basing my recommendation upon that factor.

Edit: here are pics of my Highwayman and the "flaws", if you can say they are flaws!

 

[JLStorm]

What does Aero say? They warranty their FQHH for life, period. I have not known Aero not to honor their word or written warranties. If they say that it is an issue, its an issue. If they say that it is not an issue, I would bet money that it is not an issue. This is a company that depends too much on repeat business and a relatively small clientèle base. They know they need to stand by their word...so, what did they say when you told them about it?

 

[Fiver64]

damage or character?

Very nice coat. IMHO, it comes down to whether you expect your jacket to always look smooth and new, or if you aspire to the comfy, broken in look. I can tell you that once broken in, your leather will be more grainy and wrinkly overall, so this "defect" will only be a defect to you. That being said, I'm betting that AERO would want you to be happy. You decide and do what YOU feel is best. Good luck and I think it's a great jacket. It was darken and age nicely!

 

[dit dah]

These are very expensive jackets. You're free to scuff or not scuff them at your leisure but they should be A1 (or highwayman lol lol ) out of the box. You've made the effort to photograph and post, to my mind it's going to bug you. The cuffs are just wrong.

Aero are a great company with high standards, let's help them stay that way by demanding the best.

Perhaps their "apprentices" have been rushed into action a little too soon.

 

[Southernwayfare]

Thanks to everyone for the comments. As I said before, Aero has been extremely accommodating about these issues and Amanda is working with me to get it straightened out. I'll be sure to post photos when I get the final product.

My personal feeling is that given Aero's high standards, the expectation of quality, and the price, a coat with this problem should have never left the factory. I don't expect the leather to be blimish free but this wasn't a blimish. The photos from Ace Rimmer above show scuffs in the leather, something I would have accepted without notice. I appreciate the difficulty of working with the material and that there will always be blemishes and variations given this difficulty. Moreover, I plan to wear the coat and that it will develop more scuffs and blemishes. But that is all beside the point.

If I were looking at two coats side-by-side at the Aero factory and one of them had the issue my coat had, I certainly wouldn't purchase the one with the defect and I don't think they would sell it at full price. Why should I accept it because I bought it through the mail? Part of the reason that custom made items are expensive is because they need to be done well and if an error is made during manufacture a new one must be made.

Please keep in mind that this wasn't just an issue of the tear in the leather. It was compounded by the storm cuffs. It is also disappointing to me that the storm cuffs were put in the coat by error and that it was shipped without notice. Based on other posts here, this doesn't seem to be an isolated incident.

I think Aero is a great company that makes a beautiful product but this doesn't mean they do not make mistakes. I think they should be held to account for the mistakes. As expected, they have addressed the problems with my coat without question or complaint. I'm just a little disappointed that I have to feel like I am nitpicking and complaining. With better quality control, the issue would have never arose.

 

[dit dah]

Not nitpicking.

Long term, a company gets the customers it deserves. Aero's a great company and has great, discerning customers who require the best.

If you lot would stop ordering from them for just a mo. they might have time to recoup (and fix my bloody Irvin!!).

 

[Hopalong]

The way I look at it is, if I pay a high price for a "New" top of the line number "one" jacket from a maker that has a reputation for quality of workmanship, that supposedly justifies the higher price I paid for it and it comes to me with a flaw or flaws, as far as I'm concerned I received a "Second" and I'd expect the company to stand behind their product 100%.

Thanks to everyone for the comments. As I said before, Aero has been extremely accommodating about these issues and Amanda is working with me to get it straightened out. I'll be sure to post photos when I get the final product.

My personal feeling is that given Aero's high standards, the expectation of quality, and the price, a coat with this problem should have never left the factory. I don't expect the leather to be blimish free but this wasn't a blimish. The photos from Ace Rimmer above show scuffs in the leather, something I would have accepted without notice. I appreciate the difficulty of working with the material and that there will always be blemishes and variations given this difficulty. Moreover, I plan to wear the coat and that it will develop more scuffs and blemishes. But that is all beside the point.

If I were looking at two coats side-by-side at the Aero factory and one of them had the issue my coat had, I certainly wouldn't purchase the one with the defect and I don't think they would sell it at full price. Why should I accept it because I bought it through the mail? Part of the reason that custom made items are expensive is because they need to be done well and if an error is made during manufacture a new one must be made.

Please keep in mind that this wasn't just an issue of the tear in the leather. It was compounded by the storm cuffs. It is also disappointing to me that the storm cuffs were put in the coat by error and that it was shipped without notice. Based on other posts here, this doesn't seem to be an isolated incident.

I think Aero is a great company that makes a beautiful product but this doesn't mean they do not make mistakes. I think they should be held to account for the mistakes. As expected, they have addressed the problems with my coat without question or complaint. I'm just a little disappointed that I have to feel like I am nitpicking and complaining. With better quality control, the issue would have never arose.

 

[jack miranda]

Hello, Southernwayfare: You've asked for our

opinion, so...

Storm cuffs: My Aero Hercules came with storm cuffs. I didn't like them. I simply cut them out. Now my Herc and I are happy.

Defect in seam end: Not worth the bother of shipping overseas and back again. And the wait while all of this goes on. Unless you're going to wear this jacket in a glass jar for the next thirty years, it will soon accumulate larger blemishes than this first one. In some circles, a leather jacket is not worthy until it has acquired a 'patina', which, loosely translated, means, I think, 'beat to hell'. I'm not partial to a jacket like that myself, but, the vicissitudes of wear are inevitable. Fresh from the factory or not. It aint a Ming vase; it's a leather jacket, built for hard wear and abuse.

And now, if I may, a couple of questions: If Aero has said they'll make it right, who is making you feel like you are nitpicking and complaining? Apparently not Aero. Nor anyone's post that I've read here to date. Why, then, is this an issue for public airing if Aero "is addressing the problems...without question or complaint"? I'd understand your queries more if Aero had told you go jump in the lake; it doesn't sound like they have.

At the end of the day, it's your jacket and your decision.

 

[bobjones]

opinion, so...

Storm cuffs: My Aero Hercules came with storm cuffs. I didn't like them. I simply cut them out. Now my Herc and I are happy.

Defect in seam end: Not worth the bother of shipping overseas and back again. And the wait while all of this goes on. Unless you're going to wear this jacket in a glass jar for the next thirty years, it will soon accumulate larger blemishes than this first one. In some circles, a leather jacket is not worthy until it has acquired a 'patina', which, loosely translated, means, I think, 'beat to hell'. I'm not partial to a jacket like that myself, but, the vicissitudes of wear are inevitable. Fresh from the factory or not. It aint a Ming vase; it's a leather jacket, built for hard wear and abuse.

And now, if I may, a couple of questions: If Aero has said they'll make it right, who is making you feel like you are nitpicking and complaining? Apparently not Aero. Nor anyone's post that I've read here to date. Why, then, is this an issue for public airing if Aero "is addressing the problems...without question or complaint"? I'd understand your queries more if Aero had told you go jump in the lake; it doesn't sound like they have.

At the end of the day, it's your jacket and your decision.

Good post Jack. I was told that the cuffs cannot be easily removed as the lining is split where the cuffs are sewed into the lining.

 

[H.Johnson]

So you shouldn't complain because your new full-price jacket will acquire marks anyway over the years? There's an old joke here:
A guy orders a pizza in a restaurant. When the waiter brings it someone in the kitchen has taken a bite out of it. The guy complains, but the waiter says, 'I don't see your problem, pal. You are going to eat it anyway...'

Wouldn't it be the same with a chip in the windscreen of a new car, or a dent in the door? It'll get chipped and dented anyway, right? Would you complain, or would you at least try to negotiate a reduced price based on the fault?

Aero used to sell jackets marked like this as 'seconds' as a lower price. Would trying to negotiate a partial refund from Aero be a compromise between accepting it without question and sending it back?

I bought a jacket in 2004 from one of Aero's competitors. It had a very small nick in the windflap, much smaller that the split shown above. I got 99.99GBP off the full price. If there are going to be scars on my jacket I'm going to put them there, if I've paid full price.

Just my opinion, of course.

 

[DJS Press]

Just breaking-in a FQHH jacket is going to give you far more scratches, rubbed-off surface dye, etc., than what you see in that flaw that you had to zoom way in on to illustrate. Those battle scars are what give a jacket character, and especially the brown FQHH that Aero uses. I have a brown Wested Indy jacket in horsehide, and it doesn't show near the distressing that my Aero Long Half Belt does, which for me is disappointing aspect of what is otherwise a nice jacket.

As far as the storm cuffs go, I have them on both my Aero's and I've never felt the slightest desire to remove them.

I'd just wear the jacket -- well maybe not today, since it's over 90 degrees. You're going to see a whole lot more scuffs and other little battle scars on that jacket soon enough. If you weren't expecting that to happen, you're going to either have a real problem with the jacket, or you're going to have to baby it to the point that it will probably never break-in.

To be clear, I don't artificially age or distress my jackets. Some guys get a brand-new leather jacket and rub it down with acetone and sandpaper, which almost always looks phony. I just life happen to it.

LHB sleeve after about 1 year....

LHB collar area....

These photos don't really do the jacket justice, but they never do.

Or that's what I think, anyway.

 

[dit dah]

What's the problem with being able to air your concern about your new jacket here? I sense the pro Aero mafia heckles rising. My first new leather was one of Aero's first Highwaymans and I loved it, wore it everyday and everynight in the back of the transits that took me and my band up and down the country. Stuffed it in my kick drum for sound control. This jacket was part of me. The sucker got thrown out by mistake after being put in a bin bag after a neighbour's cat "sprayed" on it whilst I was away on my Honeymoon (the critter had been accidentally locked in my house). So what? Well (and I can laugh about it now, years of therapy and a score of dead cats down the road) I loved that Aero jacket, I loved the scratches and cuts and scuffs. But they were MINE!!! I did them, and enjoyed doing so. Since then I've collected and worn mostly busted up old jackets, in my humble opinion they are far cooler and have more story in them, I bought these for their patina. A new jacket, at a very high price (yes they are) from a company boasting exceptional standards and long lead times should be just right. Who cares whether you like your storm cuffs? This guy didn't want any and he has them. Partial refund is the way to go.

or just what HJ said.

Wow, maybe I'm not over that cat thing yet, Felix, get yourself here.......