Aero A2 "new with tags" on eBay....£250? Aroma de rodent?

[Edward]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Aero-A2-l...ats_Jackets&hash=item43b32cbd68#ht_500wt_1203

Anyone know the provenance of this? I've seen a few of these on eBay in recent months, all claiming to be Aeros, but at £200 off the price of a new A2 from Aero direct, I'm not convinced of their provenance. Is this the latest product from the French company that some years ago was contesting Aero's objection to their use of the mark?

 

[JanSolo]

Looks like an Aero to me but I could be wrong. The resolution is not very high. The collar very much looks like a collar from a 42-15142-P contract and so do the pocket flaps.
May be it's a test sample or an Aero "flight" jacket which are usually sold for considerably less money...

 

[aswatland]

It's only a size 36 so the market for a small Aero would be limited. It looks ok to me.

 

[Brettafett]

Looks good, if it fits...

 

[ButteMT61]

They made a "consumer" type line at one time if I recall correctly. They pop up on eBay now and then. Maybe Holly can comment. Looks like one of those. Not as good as their usual fair, but still probably better than many off the rack mil jackets.

 

[Otter]

My goatskin A2 is from that line, the Aero Flight range of jackets. Assembled in India from UK supplied materials (zips, knits hardware and thread) and localy sourced goatskin. Itis a very nice jacket indeed, perfectly finnished and wears beautifuly. It is the jacket I usualy reach for as it is so comfy.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

No mention of Aero Flight on the tag...just normal Aero Leather Clo co.

 

[rocketeer]

No mention of Aero Flight on the tag...just normal Aero Leather Clo co.

I remember talking to Ken about these, made in India I believe, though they gave it up as The Indian sides quality control would not hold up once Aero's man had come home. Were sold under the Thunder Bay tag if I remember or as you say Aero Flight Clothing or something similar.
Great jackets, I saw one, but this was at the end of my A2 collecting phase and got into dead sheep instead, so did not and have not bought any more A2s
Maybe it's unsold stock, If I can buy a new old stock cylinder barrel for my BSA 650(Hiding at the back of my local Honda main dealer) why not?

 

[Edward]

My goatskin A2 is from that line, the Aero Flight range of jackets. Assembled in India from UK supplied materials (zips, knits hardware and thread) and localy sourced goatskin. Itis a very nice jacket indeed, perfectly finnished and wears beautifuly. It is the jacket I usualy reach for as it is so comfy.

Are those still in production? Hard to see on this one, but I've seen others very much like it, same price and BNWT condition, that had a close up of a label that didn't look at all authentic to me (to USAAF spec, that is) - which put it in mind. Though now I think about it, while labelled Aero, I think those labels were black on white...

I noticed the small size of the jacket, what threw me was such a low price, compared to new, for a jacket advertised as being new. I clearly have a suspicious nature!

 

[Jaguar66]

It looks like one of these jackets. They only come in seal or russet horsehide only. The Ebay ad says it is oiled steerhide. I think this is a mistake.

Methinks Aroma de Caballo.


http://www.aeroleatherclothing.com/product-detail.php?id=86

Aero "Anniversary" 42-15142-P Type A-2 Seal: Due to many requests from all over the world requesting a stitch for stitch recreation of one of Aero Leather Clothing, Beacon NY`s WWII Contract Type A2 Jackets, after much discussion we decided if we are going to do this, lets do it properly.

We`ll make a proper "Time Warp" WWII Spec jacket. This means sourcing rougher heavier horse skins, leaving on all the scars, natural marks, and not trimming off the "jerky" shank - there was a war going on, every bit of horse went into the jacket.

We are going to make the jacket that was thrown at the rookie Cadet by the Quartermaster, not the hand picked Bird Colonel`s A2. This is the jacket to stand up to a World War and come out the other end looking better than when it went in. Available in Seal Brown or Russet Vegetable Tanned Jerky Horsehide only...

It could also be a Real Deal jacket.
http://www.aeroleatherclothing.com/product-detail.php?id=89

Aero "Real Deal" 42-15142-P Type A-2 Unmatched Horsehide

This is the jacket that would have been thrown at the raw cadet by the quartermaster. This A2 has been cut just like they would have been at times of leather shortages such as experienced during WWII.

Manufacturers would have tried to squeeze as many jackets out of their leather as possible and marks and scars would not have been avoided, and no care would have been taken as to the matching of grain, panel to panel.

 

[Vespizzare]

I can't speak to whether the labels are genuine or an attempt to deceive, but I do know that on ebay descriptions can be very loose and creative. I've found many leather jackets of numerous different styles described as a "Perfecto" or as an A2. To somebody, the term Aero could be very generic.

 

[cloudylemonade]

I've asked about this jacket as I was unsure myself, and I'm told "Looks like one from a Japanese order from about 10 years ago maybe. Possibly a sample from Slapshot's UK agents stock? Hard to be sure but it IS an Aero"

Hope this helps!

 

[rocketeer]

I can't speak to whether the labels are genuine or an attempt to deceive, but I do know that on ebay descriptions can be very loose and creative. I've found many leather jackets of numerous different styles described as a "Perfecto" or as an A2. To somebody, the term Aero could be very generic.

Quit right.
Just eBay the words Aero Leather, the most popular item I believe is for items belonging to the SAAB motor car. I have also found items meant to describe Aero meaning Aerotex (Airtex), and a motorcycle jacket described as Aero but with no purpose to deceive other than mis spelling. other items today listed are Kung Fu equipment, trainers, and yes, leather jackets http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AERO-GLIDER-AVIATIOR-UKs-FINEST-Quality-Soft-REAL-LEATHER-Leather-Casual-Jacket-/300646473810?pt=UK_Men_s_Vintage_Clothing&var=&hash=item45ffed2052#ht_2245wt_1141 Though this one is listed as maker RTX, and how about a Dainese motorcycle jacket, yes , its one of those mesh jackets for wearing on hot days.
My favourite misrepresentation are the Sam Walker jackets I mentioned in another post.
Perfecto? Spanish for a lot of words meaning fine, finished, perfect, absolute.
I have a big thing about Aviation leather crafts 'Irvin's as supplied to the Battle of Britain memorial flight. Talk to their rep and he wont tell you it is not a WWII replica, but will tell you it is the only official Irvin jacket as worn by the Battle of Britain flight, maybe in photo' shoots but not at high altitude I doubt. Their B3 just has the patches and pockets in the right places but gets 1 out of 10 as a replica for me, authentic? Yes it's made from sheepskin.

 

[Edward]

The thing that winds me up most on eBay is when you hunt fr an Aero, or an ELC or Buzz or whatever, and you get a whole bunch of returns that say "Genuine Replica WW2 Flying Jacket A2 B3 Irvin not Aero not Buzz Rickson not ELC".... for some low quality jacket that is very clearly not the sort of thing in which a customer of any of those would be interested. Technically it is misuse of those marks in order to manipulate search returns (and obviously deliberate - akin to the sellers of "Squier guitar with genuine GIBSON and FENDER guitar pics"), and thus against eBay selling policy. eBay, however, are terribly unhelpful in my experience when it comes to this sort of thing.... unless it threatens them getting their cut, of course.

I've asked about this jacket as I was unsure myself, and I'm told "Looks like one from a Japanese order from about 10 years ago maybe. Possibly a sample from Slapshot's UK agents stock? Hard to be sure but it IS an Aero"

Hope this helps!

Thanks. Must be the teeny weeny size that is the reason it's relatively cheap, then.... The impression I get is that most of Aero's customer base is male, and of that most of us old enough to have stopped growing and therefore be more inclined to spend on a premium product as we won't grow out of it in a year.... That would limit the market for the smaller sizes.

Perfecto? Spanish for a lot of words meaning fine, finished, perfect, absolute.

Yeah, I've seen them all... It seems that Perfecto has in many quarters become a generic for a specific style of jacket, even more widely used than "Brando" now. Moreso in the US, but thanks to the web in general and eBay in particular I'm seeing it crop up over here now too, in much the same way that any vacuum cleaner is a "Hoover", or any clear sticky tape "Sellotape" ("Scotch Tape" in the US, no?). Does man you have to be careful when you're hunting for these things.

(Here I've been bitten by the curse of the FL... for years I was very happy with a seventy quid "biker jacket" in the Brando style, and looked in askance at Wested's prices.... "£140 for an Indy jacket? That's a lot....". Then I discovered this place..... :eeek: ).

I have a big thing about Aviation leather crafts 'Irvin's as supplied to the Battle of Britain memorial flight. Talk to their rep and he wont tell you it is not a WWII replica, but will tell you it is the only official Irvin jacket as worn by the Battle of Britain flight, maybe in photo' shoots but not at high altitude I doubt. Their B3 just has the patches and pockets in the right places but gets 1 out of 10 as a replica for me, authentic? Yes it's made from sheepskin.

I do sometimes wonder how many people who buy one of their "genuine Irvins" are later disappointed to discover that their jackets are not what they thought they were getting. Clearly there is a place in the market for modernised adaptations of the originals, as both ALC and Cirrus provide, among others. It has always struck me as a shame, though, that the one place entitled to use the Irvin mark, so irrevocably associated with that type of jacket in the WW2 period, offers probably the least accurate 'reproductions' on the market. I did once mention this to a friend who worked at the IWM (I suggested an alternative, which at the time was the same price), but apparently there was some reason why they stuck with ALC.

 

[oldcrow82]

The biggest red flag to me more than the jacket is the seller with a big "0" next to his name. I generally don't do business with sellers who don't have a score and I always cringe wen I see buyers who don't have a score bidding on something I'm selling.

 

[ButteMT61]

The biggest red flag to me more than the jacket is the seller with a big "0" next to his name. I generally don't do business with sellers who don't have a score and I always cringe wen I see buyers who don't have a score bidding on something I'm selling.

I won't even buy a thremos from a "0" feedback seller.Sure, Paypal has you "covered" but not worth the hassle and time if something goes wrong.

 

[rocketeer]

The biggest red flag to me more than the jacket is the seller with a big "0" next to his name. I generally don't do business with sellers who don't have a score and I always cringe wen I see buyers who don't have a score bidding on something I'm selling.

So how did you start your ebay feedback score?
I started by buying something, then a bit more, got burned a couple of times sending $$ to the US, bought a few more things from what looked like honest traders using money transfers, then PayPal was invented and made things easier.
After a around a year I thought I would start selling and built up from there. Got to about 1100 feedback and there seemed to be problems with 33% of my stuff arriving, usually the cheap, that is £30-50 items and anything not sent tracked. Baled out when I knew an item would go missing, Unsold till the last second and a BIN, with a zero feedback and sexually explicit eBay ID.
Started afresh now, dont sell anywhere near what I did and not as many bids as most of my postage has tracking of some sort fixed into it.

 

[Jaguar66]

The thing that winds me up most on eBay is when you hunt fr an Aero, or an ELC or Buzz or whatever, and you get a whole bunch of returns that say "Genuine Replica WW2 Flying Jacket A2 B3 Irvin not Aero not Buzz Rickson not ELC".... for some low quality jacket that is very clearly not the sort of thing in which a customer of any of those would be interested. Technically it is misuse of those marks in order to manipulate search returns (and obviously deliberate - akin to the sellers of "Squier guitar with genuine GIBSON and FENDER guitar pics"), and thus against eBay selling policy. eBay, however, are terribly unhelpful in my experience when it comes to this sort of thing.... unless it threatens them getting their cut, of course.



Thanks. Must be the teeny weeny size that is the reason it's relatively cheap, then.... The impression I get is that most of Aero's customer base is male, and of that most of us old enough to have stopped growing and therefore be more inclined to spend on a premium product as we won't grow out of it in a year.... That would limit the market for the smaller sizes.



Yeah, I've seen them all... It seems that Perfecto has in many quarters become a generic for a specific style of jacket, even more widely used than "Brando" now. Moreso in the US, but thanks to the web in general and eBay in particular I'm seeing it crop up over here now too, in much the same way that any vacuum cleaner is a "Hoover", or any clear sticky tape "Sellotape" ("Scotch Tape" in the US, no?). Does man you have to be careful when you're hunting for these things.

(Here I've been bitten by the curse of the FL... for years I was very happy with a seventy quid "biker jacket" in the Brando style, and looked in askance at Wested's prices.... "£140 for an Indy jacket? That's a lot....". Then I discovered this place..... :eeek: ).



I do sometimes wonder how many people who buy one of their "genuine Irvins" are later disappointed to discover that their jackets are not what they thought they were getting. Clearly there is a place in the market for modernised adaptations of the originals, as both ALC and Cirrus provide, among others. It has always struck me as a shame, though, that the one place entitled to use the Irvin mark, so irrevocably associated with that type of jacket in the WW2 period, offers probably the least accurate 'reproductions' on the market. I did once mention this to a friend who worked at the IWM (I suggested an alternative, which at the time was the same price), but apparently there was some reason why they stuck with ALC.

I know what these abbreviations are : A2, B3, ELC, WWII, FL, US. And I know what the words refer to: Ebay,Indy, Irvin, Cirrus, Aero, Hoover, Brando, Wested, Perfecto, Buzz/Buzz Rickson, Scotch tape. Not too familiar with: Sellotape, Squier, Gibson, and Fender, but don't quite care.

I for the life of me don't know what ALC, and IWM are?

Pity the poor guy that just joined The Fedora Lounge, and started reading thru this thread.

 

[rocketeer]

I know what these abbreviations are : A2, B3, ELC, WWII, FL, US. And I know what the words refer to: Ebay,Indy, Irvin, Cirrus, Aero, Hoover, Brando, Wested, Perfecto, Buzz/Buzz Rickson, Scotch tape. Not too familiar with: Sellotape, Squier, Gibson, and Fender, but don't quite care.

I for the life of me don't know what ALC, and IWM are?

Pity the poor guy that just joined The Fedora Lounge, and started reading thru this thread.

ALC, I think refers to Aviation Leathercraft. A commercial jacket maker.

IWM Imperial War Museum. An English Museum covering English military history. Sorry dont know how far the historical part goes back but the exhibition in London used to start at WWI. It also encompasses aviation and seafaring, the aviation branch includes Duxford aerodrome and it's displays.

Mind, abbreviations can be confusing. What are Indy cars? Cars that race at Indianapolis or independent ? Indy Music? From India or Independent lables? Why use abbreviations when a word will do? L.A a beautiful name for a city but only when referred to as Los Angeles, No one says NY pronounced En-why but New York. Rant, rant, rant

 

[Worf]

I know what these abbreviations are : A2, B3, ELC, WWII, FL, US. And I know what the words refer to: Ebay,Indy, Irvin, Cirrus, Aero, Hoover, Brando, Wested, Perfecto, Buzz/Buzz Rickson, Scotch tape. Not too familiar with: Sellotape, Squier, [I]Gibson, and Fender[/I], but don't quite care.

I for the life of me don't know what ALC, and IWM are?

Pity the poor guy that just joined The Fedora Lounge, and started reading thru this thread.

As a musician who's "played for pay" since Nixon was president... If you don't care about Fender or Gibson then you probably never been moved by Chuck, Jimi, Slow Hand, Stevie Ray, Carlos or any of a million guitar and bass players I could mention. A truly "American" invention we taught the world to play.

Worf