Aero A-2 'Unknown Maker' 1756 contract

[nick123]

I had a BK Roughwear 23380 that had a collar that looked kind of rigid like that. I liked it. I imagine it will eventually "break in".

Same idea...if you look at how the collar rolls over the stand you can see how the stand resting underneath the collar kind of makes the top part of the front of the collar look rigid because of the stand underneath.
http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/porkys/item/10002276/

 

[tropicalbob]

I wonder if some of the makers during the war were thinking of the military dress tunics that had the stiff collars. I'm sure some of the experts here could chime in on that topic. My grandfather's WWI regular army tunic had a stiff, stand-up collar like a cafe-racer and so did my dad's WWII Marine Corps dress tunic. I'm not saying they're the same, but I wonder if the influence was there.

 

[AdeeC]

I wonder if some of the makers during the war were thinking of the military dress tunics that had the stiff collars. I'm sure some of the experts here could chime in on that topic. My grandfather's WWI regular army tunic had a stiff, stand-up collar like a cafe-racer and so did my dad's WWII Marine Corps dress tunic. I'm not saying they're the same, but I wonder if the influence was there.

You may be rigth. Millitary bearance and appearance was more important than comfort fit.

 

[Seb Lucas]

I had a BK Roughwear 23380 that had a collar that looked kind of rigid like that. I liked it. I imagine it will eventually "break in".

Same idea...if you look at how the collar rolls over the stand you can see how the stand resting underneath the collar kind of makes the top part of the front of the collar look rigid because of the stand underneath.
http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/porkys/item/10002276/

The collar in this photo looks far less rigid and Elvis-like.

 

[navetsea]

that water treatment really works on your collar, very cool shape post treatment.

before I thought it was made straight like that with something rigid underneath.


that Rakuten/ japanese model perfectly shows what happens when rather thin / non muscular build asian figure wearing a jacket with standing collar or band collar... I would look exactly like that :tape:

 

[Dr H]

I guess what I'm asking is if there's a piece of paper.

That's what I understand was cited (the government contracts/numbers/prices). If you want more info 'straight from the horse's mouth', I'm sure that Gary or indeed Andrew Swatland might be well placed to discuss it.

 

[Sloan1874]

The thing that mystifies me is why Perry didn't stick their name on it? They'd already had two contracts, why didn't they do it with the 1756? It doesn't make sense to turn down the PR of having a wartime contract.

Anyway, that's a side-point. Here's a pic of an original and you can see the original collar shape: http://www.flightjacket.jp/vintage/a-2/1756a-2/

The Few's, though unsnapped, you can see how it will sit:

http://www.j-e-a-n-s.net/overseas/00590.html

http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/vari/item/fw-jk-an13-005/

 

[Fanch]

That's what I understand was cited (the government contracts/numbers/prices). If you want more info 'straight from the horse's mouth', I'm sure that Gary or indeed Andrew Swatland might be well placed to discuss it.

The thing that mystifies me is why Perry didn't stick their name on it? They'd already had two contracts, why didn't they do it with the 1756? It doesn't make sense to turn down the PR of having a wartime contract.

It would be interesting to get Andrew's opinion as to why the 1756 contract is not labeled Perry rather than Unknown Maker. Maybe widely believed to be Perry but not 100% certain? Agree with Sloan that perhaps this is basically a sidebar issue. [huh]

 

[theeggcarton]

"I'd never really considered an A-2 before, but after seeing some of the ones posted recently I'd started to reconsider"
+1 for tropicalbob's statement above...

"Choose the contract that suits your physique and it'll flatter you to death"....wish I had the opportunity to try on a range of A-2 contracts, but alas not many options to do so... I see all the subtle differences in the various contracts but hard to know how all the "fits" varied without actually trying them on.


Beautiful jacket that will break in amazingly...I love the vicenza leather more and more as I wear it....

 

[Sloan1874]

Ken got in touch about the collar question, and this is what he had to say: "Our size 38” 1756 was taken from an unpicked wreck that John Chapman sent us before I moved north. We used 2 or 3 originals for our 1756 pattern way back - if I recall a we had a 40” and a 44” from decades ago - double checked them all for grade against JC’s 38” in 2013, found all our range spot on so the collars are the way they came off the original production line."

 

[Big J]

Ken got in touch about the collar question, and this is what he had to say: "Our size 38” 1756 was taken from an unpicked wreck that John Chapman sent us before I moved north. We used 2 or 3 originals for our 1756 pattern way back - if I recall a we had a 40” and a 44” from decades ago - double checked them all for grade against JC’s 38” in 2013, found all our range spot on so the collars are the way they came off the original production line."

You see, that's exactly the kind of understanding of Ken's patterns that you wouldn't have if you just stole them, or...something....

 

[tropicalbob]

Right on the money, Big J. The thing I'd like to know is why some producers went with the stand-up collar and some didn't. Were the stand-ups produced in earlier makes and then phased out, or was it simply a matter of preference on the part of certain producers?

 

[tropicalbob]

Perhaps there was a preference on the part of the pilots?

 

[Sloan1874]

I would've thought that for a lot of makers, the stand was an unnecessary complication that slowed down production.

 

[Fanch]

I'm nowhere close to being an expert on collar stands. My take is that collar stands were prevalent in pre and early WW II contracts but mostly disappeared due to complexity and increased cost of production. Dave Marshall who used to work for G&B gives a nice presentation of G&B's Model 31 A-2 with collar stand which I used to own.

http://www.gibson-barnes.com/prod-296723/Type-A2-Mark-31.html


This picture of Sloan's 1756 is on Aero's website


Another pic from Aero's website of a 40-3785-P with collar stand


An Aero Bronco on Aero's website showing the collar without a stand that illustrates a not too subtle difference between A-2 collars to which I had really given only minimal thought until this thread.

 

[Sloan1874]

The online collar has been sculpted a bit, note the line running down towards the end. My pic was taken pre-hot water, it's already more relaxed and shaped.

 

[Seb Lucas]

I knew it was pre-water/break in but I was still astonished at the collar's height. Can we see how it has come up?

 

[Sloan1874]

A quick selfie (Fifth shot, bloody awkward angle):

 

[Seb Lucas]

Nice work.

 

[Big J]

I'm nowhere close to being an expert on collar stands. My take is that collar stands were prevalent in pre and early WW II contracts but mostly disappeared due to complexity and increased cost of production. Dave Marshall who used to work for G&B gives a nice presentation of G&B's Model 31 A-2 with collar stand which I used to own.

http://www.gibson-barnes.com/prod-296723/Type-A2-Mark-31.html

View attachment 29917
This picture of Sloan's 1756 is on Aero's website

View attachment 29918
Another pic from Aero's website of a 40-3785-P with collar stand

View attachment 29919
An Aero Bronco on Aero's website showing the collar without a stand that illustrates a not too subtle difference between A-2 collars to which I had really given only minimal thought until this thread.

Yep, that's about it.