Aero 9 months + wait, is this common ?

[Navin323i]

He put himself in the middle, he is not part of Aero, he is a completely separate distributor affiliated with Aero as a reseller. He is basically the same as a beer distributor, that is affiliated with the beer company, but simply distributes to the public. The difference in this case is that the public can go directly to the manufacturer.

Im in no way suggesting that one take Mark out of the equation. While I personally have no interest in dealing with him again or buying from him. Im sure many people enjoy dealing with someone in the same country, avoiding paying customs and large shipping charges, and less hassle with time zones. But there are many drawbacks and limitations as well. Some of them may include longer shipping times, less control over the product, little ability to customize, and level of overall service.

I wouldnt go around feeling sorry for him though. He chose to leverage his company as a reseller for a business that specializes in custom orders and dealing direct with the end user.

I wouldn't say that as a disadvantage/drawback there is little ability to customize... a customer would provide what customizations he/she wants and Mark would provide that info to Amanda/Will. If there is a problem with a particular customization then they will communicate that to Mark who in turn will let the customer know.

Same with less control over the product... you would have equal control over the product whether you go thru Mark or Will/Amanda.

 

[Spitfire]

I wouldn't say that as a disadvantage/drawback there is little ability to customize... a customer would provide what customizations he/she wants and Mark would provide that info to Amanda/Will. If there is a problem with a particular customization then they will communicate that to Mark who in turn will let the customer know.

Same with less control over the product... you would have equal control over the product whether you go thru Mark or Will/Amanda.

:eusa_doh: :eusa_doh:
'scuse me.

Why go through a middelman - instead of talking directly to the people who make your jacket. I do not get it!

 

[Carnage]

:eusa_doh: :eusa_doh:
'scuse me.

Why go through a middelman - instead of talking directly to the people who make your jacket. I do not get it!

Exactly Spitty, it's like some of these people never played Chinese Whispers...

 

[TheSnark]

Why go through a middelman - instead of talking directly to the people who make your jacket. I do not get it!

Ahem... Just think about it for a moment... not everyone lives in Europe. The time difference + work schedules can make telephone contact with Scotland difficult, at best. If you're communicating by email anyway, I don't see how the middleman makes a heck of a lot of difference.

 

[JLStorm]

I wouldn't say that as a disadvantage/drawback there is little ability to customize... a customer would provide what customizations he/she wants and Mark would provide that info to Amanda/Will. If there is a problem with a particular customization then they will communicate that to Mark who in turn will let the customer know.

Same with less control over the product... you would have equal control over the product whether you go thru Mark or Will/Amanda.

fftopic:

No. Mark specifically states that for heavy customizations you have to go through the Aero factory. He does not want to deal with consumption of time or increased responsibility that heavy customizations require. I dont blame him, the larger number of communication channels, the more room for error. I had tried in the past to order a highly customized jacket through him before I was convinced that going through Scotland was the way to go and he asked me to deal directly with Amanda.

Mark will do small customizations and custom sizing, but that is the limit. Nothing wrong with that, but it is a disadvantage in my opinion, as one of the main benefits of going through Aero is that they will do ANYTHING you want for a nominal fee (if any). That means that you dont have to choose your favorite style, you can make your own. So many people just pick a pattern they like best and go with it, without realizing that they dont have to pick something they like best, they can make their individual perfect jacket for the same price.

If someone is happy just buying a basically off the shelf jacket custom sized and want to deal with someone in the same country or timezone, then by all means go with Mark. Otherwise, I think they are short changing themselves. This is no reflection on Mark at all, but its simply a reflection on the niche market that Aero is in. No one else that Ive spoken to RMNZ, Eastman, LW, etc., is in the same market as Aero. Aero is a one stop custom shop eager to custom design anything to your most eccentric desires (speaking from experience).

 

[Spitfire]

Ahem... Just think about it for a moment... not everyone lives in Europe.

They don't?????
Well that comes as a surprise to me. (It's a joke! it's a joke!!!)

I know about timezones and workinghours - but we still could communicate by phone, before the internet. It happened!

And when somebody uses the internet and sends a mail to "Mark" - or somebody else for that matter - who then re-writes it, chances for misswriting and mistakes are there.
If he copies you mail and just send it on - there are no mistakes.
But why pay somebody for doing that?

 

[Carnage]

Exactly, it just seems to be another link in the chain that adds to the potential for complication. I could understand if Aero did not ship to the USA or something, but as they do it is rather easier to go directly to them and deal with them than a third party. If anything it would seem going via Aero USA results in a longer wait for the item to be manufactured.

 

[TheSnark]

I know about timezones and workinghours - but we still could communicate by phone, before the internet. It happened!

Sure it happened... but far less frequently than today, particularly for items like leather jackets. The internet and email are great enablers of globalization for small companies. Few people are willing to put up with the inconvenicence of making a phone call at 3am just to order a jacket. Instead, they shopped closer to home back then... as they do now when they order thru Mark.

And when somebody uses the internet and sends a mail to "Mark" - or somebody else for that matter - who then re-writes it, chances for misswriting and mistakes are there. If he copies you mail and just send it on - there are no mistakes.

So why would he rewrite it? It would just take more of his time and create the possibility of error.

But why pay somebody for doing that?

If anyone is paying Mark to do that, it's Aero. If you check Mark's prices on his website, you'll find that he charges the same as the factory (allowing for currency exchange, of course).

This really isn't a case of people being stupid, as you seem to think. You might have a point if Mark's customers wanted a high degree of customization, but (as has already be pointed out), Mark doesn't handle cases involving complex alterations or additions. Mark's customers want the standard product with tailored measurements and possibly a few very simple changes like adding an internal pocket or some such. And as for the delivery delay with Mark... we don't really know that, do we? It's just a pattern that some people THINK they see based on what's posted here. Even if there is a delay associated with going thru Mark, it would still be the factory that isn't meeting it's commitment to Mark.

(Mark's customers are Aero customers too... if the factory can't deliver the product in a reasonable time, they shouldn't accept orders from Mark in the first place. In any event, there's no excuse for brushing off or ignoring requests for a real delivery date).

 

[Jeff M]

.. Even if there is a delay associated with going thru Mark, it would still be the factory that isn't meeting it's commitment to Mark.

(Mark's customers are Aero customers too... if the factory can't deliver the product in a reasonable time, they shouldn't accept orders from Mark in the first place. .....).

That's what I can't understand.
I have a hard time believing Mark isn't forwarding the orders to Aero in a timely fashion.
He notes he only takes so many orders per month.
That being the case, it would appear the delay is on Aero's end.

 

[Spitfire]

@TheSnark:
I do not believe anybody to be stupid - I just don't get it.
(So maybe I am stupid?)

Anyway - I hear a lot of people complaining about long deliverytime - when going through this fellow, Mark.
(Who I do not know, and do not have anything against, since I have never delt with him or talked with him.)

And I also hear a lot of people (US citizens too) talk positive of the service and deliverytime from the staff at Aero Scotland.

I rest my case.

 

[TheSnark]

I have a hard time believing Mark isn't forwarding the orders to Aero in a timely fashion... it would appear the delay is on Aero's end.

I agree completely; from where I stand, Mark appears more the victim, and the factory the villain. On two occasions I've purchased auction items from Mark... that is, jackets that he has on hand, ready for shipment to whoever wins the bid. On both occasions, Mark shipped the jackets the very next day after the auction ended. On both occasions, the jackets arrived within the normal 5-day shipping period, and were exactly as described in every detail. In other words, no problems at all.

The real problems are when I ordered from the factory (thru Mark). In that case, I was left hanging for over a year, even though the changes from the standard model were very simple and straight-forward. The measurements and customizations were not a problem... the factory simply ignored my order (and my requests for a status and delivery date) for a year.

In short, when Mark had control of the process, I've had nothing but good news, and business was attended to promptly and professionally. When any action was required from the factory, absolutely nothing happened... for months on end.

Now that's just my experience, but it sure seems that those eager to blame Mark are just forming impressions from incomplete information.... And notably eager to protect the sacred cow. What we're dealing with here, is a brand-name cult similar to the Harley-Davidson phenom. (Please folks, I've got nothing against H-D, but the cult fanaticism to that brand is well-known and acknowledged... it's not that difficult to see a similar attitude towards Aero on this board, altho mentioning it as such may well earn me a trip behind the woodshed with the moderators.)

 

[Jeff M]

..

The real problems are when I ordered from the factory (thru Mark). In that case, I was left hanging for over a year, ....

I get the impression Mark is "left hanging" in these situations also.

There are really two separate issues here.

The first, why buy through a middleman when you can go directly to the manufacturer? Very much a debatable subject.

The second, what is the reason for the delays we hear about when going through Mark ? Are they the fault of the middleman or the manufacturer?
How does Aero feels about Mark putting himself in the middle? Is there some animosity? Does this affect how his orders are treated?
How erratic is the number of orders Aero/Mark receives? Does this affect the accuracy of the estimates Aero gives Mark? When Aero is "behind" on orders, do they give priority to orders placed directly with them?
Mark notes Aero has alloted him only so many order slots each month. Does he have a que to get into those slots he isn't informing buyers about?
If he can submit 20 orders a month...and has 100 on the books....does the person with number 100 have to wait 5 months in addition to, lets say, the 8 to 10 weeks Aero may quote to make the jacket once they receive the order?
Given our lack of behind the scenes information, not a subject open to debate...but rather to conjecture.

 

[Navin323i]

:eusa_doh: :eusa_doh:
'scuse me.

Why go through a middelman - instead of talking directly to the people who make your jacket. I do not get it!

No need for the insulting "doh" smilie, Spitfire... simply ask your question to me and I'll be happy to answer it.

First of all, it was my very first experience with Aero... I had never dealt with the Scotland factory before and for convenience sake I went with Mark simply because he's in the USA and would be easier for me to contact Mark over the phone if needed (less expensive of a phone call too).

Exactly Spitty, it's like some of these people never played Chinese Whispers...

Yeah, I've never played Chinese Whispers nor do I care too... what's your point?

fftopic:

No. Mark specifically states that for heavy customizations you have to go through the Aero factory. He does not want to deal with consumption of time or increased responsibility that heavy customizations require. I dont blame him, the larger number of communication channels, the more room for error. I had tried in the past to order a highly customized jacket through him before I was convinced that going through Scotland was the way to go and he asked me to deal directly with Amanda.

Mark will do small customizations and custom sizing, but that is the limit. Nothing wrong with that, but it is a disadvantage in my opinion, as one of the main benefits of going through Aero is that they will do ANYTHING you want for a nominal fee (if any). That means that you dont have to choose your favorite style, you can make your own. So many people just pick a pattern they like best and go with it, without realizing that they dont have to pick something they like best, they can make their individual perfect jacket for the same price.

If someone is happy just buying a basically off the shelf jacket custom sized and want to deal with someone in the same country or timezone, then by all means go with Mark. Otherwise, I think they are short changing themselves. This is no reflection on Mark at all, but its simply a reflection on the niche market that Aero is in. No one else that Ive spoken to RMNZ, Eastman, LW, etc., is in the same market as Aero. Aero is a one stop custom shop eager to custom design anything to your most eccentric desires (speaking from experience).

Sorry but I had heavy customizations and I was able to go thru Mark... no problems whatsoever.

I'll say this again... my overall experience with both Aeroleather USA and Aero Scotland has been completely positive and I'd be more than happy to buy from him again. However this time around for Aero jacket #2 I chose to go thru Scotland and I'm equally happy.

They don't?????
Well that comes as a surprise to me. (It's a joke! it's a joke!!!)

I know about timezones and workinghours - but we still could communicate by phone, before the internet. It happened!

And when somebody uses the internet and sends a mail to "Mark" - or somebody else for that matter - who then re-writes it, chances for misswriting and mistakes are there.
If he copies you mail and just send it on - there are no mistakes.
But why pay somebody for doing that?

Mark did not "re-write" anything (not with my order anyhow). I sent him my email with all the customizations and he forwarded it to Aero Scotland. No chance of mis-writings nor mistakes.

Keep in mind that if you live in the U.S. and order thru Mark he takes care of any customs/duty fees, which is an added plus.

Exactly, it just seems to be another link in the chain that adds to the potential for complication. I could understand if Aero did not ship to the USA or something, but as they do it is rather easier to go directly to them and deal with them than a third party. If anything it would seem going via Aero USA results in a longer wait for the item to be manufactured.

No it does not result in a longer wait time simply by going thru Aero USA. I got mine in 10 weeks... I know others here who also got quick service. I also know people here who got their jackets with a much longer wait time... some who ordered thru Aero USA and others who ordered from Scotland.

 

[Carnage]

Yeah, I've never played Chinese Whispers nor do I care too... what's your point?

The point is the more people there are involved the easier it is for information to become corrupted by indirect communication.

 

[Spitfire]

Keep in mind that if you live in the U.S. and order thru Mark he takes care of any customs/duty fees, which is an added plus.

OK - but I do not reckon he's paying them for you, right?

Somebody else here stated that the prices were the same, wether you bought your jacket through Mark or directly from Aero, Scotland, right?

Elementary my dear Dr. Watson:

Then it's quite clear to me, that Mark has got a special deal with Aero Scotland, being their "agent" in US of A. Otherwise he would be stupid.
He buys the jackets at a cheaper price and sell them on + customs etc. to american clients. Smart and easy for some.
But Aero - being a small company - has it's ups and downs.
Personally I called Amanda before I ordered my Irvin, and she told me, they were way behind in production, due to vacation, due to many orders, due to lambskin, which had not arrived yet etc.
So of course, Mark can only fill up his "slots", when it's his turn. So to speak.
That might explain the long waiting time in US - which sometimes do happen here in Europe too.

I can only add, that I ordered my jacket in june - knowing that I would not recieve it before end of October.
When October came, I mailed Amanda just to check how everything was and she gave me a very precise date, for when I could expect my jacket.
It arrived two days before schedule. And just in time before winter :eusa_clap

 

[Navin323i]

The point is the more people there are involved the easier it is for information to become corrupted by indirect communication.

LOL... not sure why you're choosing to rudely roll your eyes at me but I agree in general that it's easier for info to become corrupted when more people are involved but my point was that this was never an issue with me when I dealt with Mark.

 

[Navin323i]

OK - but I do not reckon he's paying them for you, right?

Wrong... he is paying the customs/duty fees... that is what he did for me and what he does for his U.S. customers.

In any case, this thread seems to be turning into a "Let's all bash Aero USA" thread. Bottom line here is that some people have have good experiences with them... others have sadly had bad experiences. I can only speak for myself and say why I chose to initially go with Aero USA for my first jacket order.

Enjoy your day, everyone.

 

[Spitfire]

WHAT??? Mark is paying customs/duty - and the prices for the jackets are the same as direct from Scotland?
Then I understand why you all tend to deal with him and also why we are not going to "bash Aero USA".
He must be some kind of saint.
lol

I think this thread has gone wrong too.
I had absolutely no reason what so ever to "bash" anybody - all I wanted was to help clear up some of the questions.

And dear Navin323i, don't take things so personally in the future. You are rather new here and some of us oldies have a certain way and a certain language. Nothing personal. Nobody is after you either.

 

[Navin323i]

WHAT??? Mark is paying customs/duty - and the prices for the jackets are the same as direct from Scotland?
Then I understand why you all tend to deal with him and also why we are not going to "bash Aero USA".
He must be some kind of saint.
lol

I think this thread has gone wrong too.
I had absolutely no reason what so ever to "bash" anybody - all I wanted was to help clear up some of the questions.

And dear Navin323i, don't take things so personally in the future. You are rather new here and some of us oldies have a certain way and a certain language. Nothing personal. Nobody is after you either.

Thanks, my friend. All is well on my end. I must confess that I hate negative smilies... since it's difficult to gauge whether the writer who used the negative smilie meant it personally or not. I understand your point though and you're right.

Enjoy your day.

 

[Spitfire]

same to you my friend