Aerial Star Vintage Leather Jackets - Official Affiliate Thread

[ButteMT61]

Butte,What are your thoughts regarding what Marc Weinshenker wrote on the Acme Depot website? Marc writes:"While the official specification called for horsehide, and while most jackets probably were so made, there was a notable fraction of A-2's made of goatskin and perhaps other hides such as steer. Consultation with a number of independent leather scientists (not tanners or sales people) resulted in learning that once the hides have been processed it is virtually impossible to tell the difference between horse and steer; it can't be done visually, and a positive ID might well require expensive DNA testing..."Thanks,Chris

Apparently, Gary Eastman published a book last fall: "Type A-2 Jacket, Flyers' Intermediate Identification Manual" in which it tells that indeed, Steer was used. What I've gathered is that he had DNA tests done on some samples. That's about the only way to tell for sure.So, sounds about right Scott

 

[majormajor]

In Gary's book, there are 39 different jacket/contracts illustrated. Of these, 13 have been identified, either by DNA testing, or by visual examination, as being made of Cowhide.

He goes on to say:

It should be remembered that leather has to be ordered in thousands of square feet (of the same type) at a time, not just a few dozen, so where one jacket has proven to be cowhide, many more would have been made along with it. Accordingly, this means thousands, if not tens of thousands of A2s were made in cowhide. In fact, it's interesting to muse that if it were possible to test every single government contract A2 jacket that was ever made, just how many would prove to have been made from cowhide.

Fascinating stuff

 

[simonc]

moo

 

[ButteMT61]

In Gary's book, there are 39 different jacket/contracts illustrated. Of these, 13 have been identified, either by DNA testing, or by visual examination, as being made of Cowhide.He goes on to say:It should be remembered that leather has to be ordered in thousands of square feet (of the same type) at a time, not just a few dozen, so where one jacket has proven to be cowhide, many more would have been made along with it. Accordingly, this means thousands, if not tens of thousands of A2s were made in cowhide. In fact, it's interesting to muse that if it were possible to test every single government contract A2 jacket that was ever made, just how many would prove to have been made from cowhide.Fascinating stuff

Of course that assumes contractors for hides actually delivered what was agreed upon. We know that this is not always the case - and given the War, I'd bet good money that many of those orders were mixed hides - some might even be another animal altogether as it's hard for even experts to tell. Not sure the assumption steer was huge is a for sure thing. it might be highly likely, just saying...

 

[majormajor]

moo

 

[majormajor]

Of course that assumes contractors for hides actually delivered what was agreed upon. We know that this is not always the case - and given the War, I'd bet good money that many of those orders were mixed hides - some might even be another animal altogether as it's hard for even experts to tell. Not sure the assumption steer was huge is a for sure thing. it might be highly likely, just saying...

So that zebra/gnu combo A2 of mine with the mole/raccoon collar could be genuine after all? Whoo!

 

[ButteMT61]

So that zebra/gnu combo A2 of mine with the mole/raccoon collar could be genuine after all? Whoo!

Honestly, who knows. Donkey? Burro? Dog? I would bet lots of stuff ended up making jackets...

 

[aswatland]

In Gary's book, there are 39 different jacket/contracts illustrated. Of these, 13 have been identified, either by DNA testing, or by visual examination, as being made of Cowhide.

He goes on to say:

It should be remembered that leather has to be ordered in thousands of square feet (of the same type) at a time, not just a few dozen, so where one jacket has proven to be cowhide, many more would have been made along with it. Accordingly, this means thousands, if not tens of thousands of A2s were made in cowhide. In fact, it's interesting to muse that if it were possible to test every single government contract A2 jacket that was ever made, just how many would prove to have been made from cowhide.

Fascinating stuff

Gary has proved that cow hide was used in 13 contracts by a combination of DNA analysis and visual examination, but this does not mean horsehide was not also used in the same contracts. Testing one jacket from a contract only proves cow hide was used, but not the extent to which it was used. I suspect it was used widely and it is nice that several repro makers are using it today.

 

[simonc]

What are the differences for you Andrew and what do you prefer and why?

 

[aswatland]

Batches of cow hide and horse hide varied considerably in the War as they do today so whilst DNA can tell which is which I have no preferences at all. However some hides have more character than others irrespective of whether they are cow or horse.

 

[majormajor]

Batches of cow hide and horse hide varied considerably in the War as they do today so whilst DNA can tell which is which I have no preferences at all. However some hides have more character than others irrespective of whether they are cow or horse.

Good answer, Andrew

 

[Sloan1874]

So that zebra/gnu combo A2 of mine with the mole/raccoon collar could be genuine after all? Whoo!

Experiments with giraffe proved to be an expensive and fruitless. A lot of waste hide...

 

[Aerial Star]

I would like to ask your opinion regarding the A-2 leather hanger.

Should we include an authentic A-2 leather hanger on our Two-Way Pocket model and our Slash Pocket model? Civilian flight jackets sometimes had a "loop" hanger, but not a leather hanger that is sewn through the back of the neck. The loop type hanger sticks up, and you may feel it rubbing against your neck. So, we wouldn't want to use that. Many vintage jackets that I come across did not have any hanger. I think that it might be best not to include a hanger for our jackets, except, of course, for our Army Air Corps model.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

Thanks,

Chris

 

[simonc]

Chris personally I hang my jackets on a good hanger and I know most other guys here do too. It's a nice feature but I wouldn't miss it if you lost it. But if you told me you were lining your jackets in 40 mommes of gold silk lining fabric you might get my attention

 

[majormajor]

Should we include an authentic A-2 leather hanger on our Two-Way Pocket model and our Slash Pocket model?

Makes no difference to me.

As Simon says, we use hangers

 

[Seb Lucas]

Never use hangers either - fold it and stick it on a shelf.

 

[Jeff M]

A great hide is a great hide.
Seen some great and not so great examples of horse hide, steer, goat.

 

[triple-d]

Looks like nice jackets, any chance of getting Talls in larger sizes, like a 48 T?

 

[Aerial Star]

Triple-d,

Please take a look at our measurements page:

http://aerialstar.com/measurements-page.htm

What would your jacket size be, and what would be a good length for the sleeves and back?

Thanks,

Chris

 

[majormajor]

Could you do the Slash Pocket A2 with the pockets set a little lower?