Advice needed on new Aero Cafe Racer jacket

[Rich22]

http://www.vintageleatherjackets.org/threads/how-to-measure-a-jacket-correctly-tutorial.15194/

Fit jacket measurements are courtesy of Aero, though I did double check them. The only measurement that is mine is the waist, as I was curious to see if the circumference changed from stomach to opening, which it did not. The measurements of the other jacket are from Thurston's website, and are consistent across multiple Cafe Racer jackets in 44" there.

Are they both Cafe racers or is one a Board Racer perhaps?

All are definitely sold as Cafe Racers. Board Racer measurements look a bit different from those I've seen.

 

[Rich22]

Do you know what the PtP and shoulder measurements are on your Sheene jackets, @Fanch ? Cheers

 

[jacketjunkie]

22.5" in a size 44 seems very tight, more like the number I'd expect in a size 40, which doesn't add up with the generous pit to pit in Aero CRs that I have seen.

 

[Rich22]

Yeah, it does seem tight doesn't it!! PtP and arms are all I need to be more spacious, shoulders and waist were fine. Even a board racer on Thurston is much more forgiving around the chest in 44", which it isn't 'supposed' to be:

Pit-to-pit--24 inches
Shoulder--18.25 inches
Waist/bottom hem--21.5 inches
https://www.thurston-bros.com/products/aero-board-racer-size-44-dark-seal-vicenza-horsehide

 

[Fanch]

Do you know what the PtP and shoulder measurements are on your Sheene jackets, @Fanch ? Cheers

Both jackets:
Pit-to-pit - 24"
Shoulder - 19.5"

Now I see your point regarding measurements of the jacket you were sent.

 

[cloudylemonade]

We've been trying to contact you by telephone regarding this, seems like there was an error on the listing with this and the pit to pit measurement was written down incorrectly. Dom has left you a voicemail explaining.

 

[Rich22]

Hi, had my phone on airplane mode the since midday, been in a meeting. No worries. Interesting to see you following this thread

 

[Rich22]

Had a good chat on the phone with Dom and Denny just now, interesting hearing from Denny the reasoning behind certain things such as the designs and the way some things are done the way they are. I think he might have succeeded in talking me out of the corduroy lining in the cuffs- with the way they put together the lining in the sleeves, it just wouldn't work the way I envisaged. They were both very friendly and helpful too.

The PtP measurement they wrote down for the fit jacket was just a little erroneous. When I double checked the measurements I assumed they must have measured just a fraction lower than I expected, and an inch and a quarter isn't far off with such a thick leather. Leather isn't as exact as cloth to tailor, with the steerhide being the heaviest leather they have it probably just lost a bit more in all the seams than normal on this example, which is why all the measurements are down a tad compared with the Thurston's stock example.

The zip on the fit jacket is also one they have been phasing out, and features a shorter male pin and a smaller (and I believe less decorative) box than is the norm with their jackets. The box they're now using had a special name, sunburst or something, but it escapes me.

 

[Rich22]

I received an envelope with 10 or so brown and cordovan leathers from Aero today

There's huge variation between them all, from the lightweights to the steerhide to the goatskin.

Played around with them a bit, and noticed they look very different indoors to out in the sunshine. My initial favourite... CXL FQHH Brown. Deep, dark, vibrant in the sunshine, nice minimal grain- not too grainy or creasy/cracked (the same leather in Cordovan behaved very differently, already looking a bit creased/cracked, and displaying a huge variation in colour when folded over), not too heavy or unwieldy like the Steerhide, not overly shiny or matt, and lastly it didn't change too much when folded or screwed up.

 

[Rich22]

Just an update on where I'm at on this jacket:

So it's clear I need slightly bigger (wider) sleeves, and about an extra inch on the PtP measurement over my fit jacket. I asked what size the 46" jacket is likely to be, and I'm told:
Back 27.25 / sleeves 25.5 / Pit to Pit 24 / Shoulders 20.5
Give or take quarter inches, the PtP is the same as my 44" fit jacket, while the shoulders are 3/4" larger. Drat.

I could move up to a 48" jacket, but that'd put the shoulders and the waist all out of whack. I've asked Aero what they suggest. Maybe a tapered in Board Racer would work better, as at least there I could have a big chest measurement without the shoulder seams hanging over my shoulders. I see why people say this is such a hard jacket to get the fit right in.

 

[ton312]

Just an update on where I'm at on this jacket:

So it's clear I need slightly bigger (wider) sleeves, and about an extra inch on the PtP measurement over my fit jacket. I asked what size the 46" jacket is likely to be, and I'm told:
Back 27.25 / sleeves 25.5 / Pit to Pit 24 / Shoulders 20.5
Give or take quarter inches, the PtP is the same as my 44" fit jacket, while the shoulders are 3/4" larger. Drat.

I could move up to a 48" jacket, but that'd put the shoulders and the waist all out of whack. I've asked Aero what they suggest. Maybe a tapered in Board Racer would work better, as at least there I could have a big chest measurement without the shoulder seams hanging over my shoulders. I see why people say this is such a hard jacket to get the fit right in.

Man that seems tiny for a 46"! 24" p2p is closer to a 42" Here's one on the TB site, 44" with a 25" p2p
https://www.thurston-bros.com/colle...oducts/aero-cafe-racer-size-44-brown-cxl-fqhh

 

[Rich22]

Man that seems tiny for a 46"! 24" p2p is closer to a 42" Here's one on the TB site, 44" with a 25" p2p
https://www.thurston-bros.com/colle...oducts/aero-cafe-racer-size-44-brown-cxl-fqhh

That's exactly what I thought after looking at over a dozen Aero Cafe Racer jackets on Fedora and on Thurston's sites. I asked Holly if they'd changed the pattern or made different jackets for Thurston's, but the answer I received today was no. She wondered if measuring is done differently?

 

[ton312]

That's exactly what I thought after looking at over a dozen Aero Cafe Racer jackets on Fedora and on Thurston's sites. I asked Holly if they'd changed the pattern or made different jackets for Thurston's, but the answer I received today was no. She wondered if measuring is done differently?

I wonder too! Man an Aero in a 46" in almost any pattern would be at least 26" p2p...Even my 40" bootlegger was about 23.75"...just doesn't sound right to me.

 

[Rich22]

Might as well mention the Aero production team's target sizes for a 44" Cafe Racer jacket too, as that was also provided:

Back 26.75 / Sleeves 25.25 / Pit to Pit 23 / Shoulders 19.5

 

[Xenophon]

I couldn't zip this jacket past my sternum. Taking it off took a partnerless square dance. But it looked good standing dead still. TBH I think the CR pattern is best suited to lighter, more flexible hides. It's a tight fit design and heavy leather and tight fits are two great tastes that taste terrible together. My favorites have always been vintage, "thinnish", flexible hides for a CR. Not to say it can't be done in CXL, but it certainly takes that extra little bit of detail in the numbers, here, there and everywhere.

I'm very late to the party but I'm 100% with Ton wrt the statement about the Café Racer model and FQHH. Don't know what you guys ride but I wouldn't want to jump on my motorcycle wearing a brand new FQHH jacket, regardless of the model. Not unless I could barrel down one of those long, straight highways. I own the limited edition red steerhide CR and compared to the horsehide it's like wearing flannel, fits really well.

 

[Rich22]

Between work, holidays and sizing difficulties this 'getting me a jacket' process has slowed right down.

The sizing is the tricky bit for me it seems. The fit jacket (23.75" chest, 19.5" shoulders) was too tight in the chest but good otherwise, save the sleeves being too tight. If I move to sizes where the chest will fit it begins to make the shoulders too big, which is one of my bug bears with jackets- I don't like seeing a shoulder seam slide off the edge of the wearer's shoulder.

I measured my favourite (cotton) jacket- though a bit too tight in the chest, it is otherwise perfect for me:
PtP: 23.5"
Shoulders: 19.5" (though measures 18.5" across the front as the seam swoops around)
Length: 28"

I assume from that that a leather jacket needs a bit more size in the chest than heavy cotton, as the leather fit jacket felt tighter.

Here's the options available from Aero (measurements direct from them):

Cafe Racer
44" - 23 " Pit to Pit; 19.5" Shoulders
46" - 24 " Pit to Pit; 20.5" Shoulders
48" - 25.75" Pit to Pit; 21.5" Shoulders

Board Racer
This is where it gets a bit confusing, and hopefully the pattern makers will shed some light on it on monday:
44" 22.5" PtP. 18.25" Shoulders
46" 23" PtP. ??? Shoulders
48" ??? PtP. ??? Shoulders

I thought the 46" Cafe Racer might be the one for me based on sizes seen on Thurston's, but the official measurements run smaller across chest and larger on the shoulder.

Now I'm holding out hope that the 48" Board Racer might succeed. Either way, I'll basically spec it like a J-100, but with 4 pockets. Simple is best for me, so no guessets or external kidney panels.

Anyone know if the 44" Cafe Racer and 48" Board Racer are likely to have similar arm holes and sleeve diameters? Thanks

 

[Rich22]

Might as well throw my measurements in again, especially as I lost 10lbs since this thread began!

Height: 6'1
Weight: 215lbs (sporty, not tubby)
Chest (relaxed): 43"
Chest (expanded): 45.5"
Stomach (at widest point): 36"
Waist (actual waist, not jeans size): 36" (I measured this at the point my belt sits, minus any belt)

Leather wise, I'm also still undecided. I think the CXL steer and HH might both be a bit too heavy for every day wear, for me, but damn the CXL HH Brown is the prettiest looking leather sample.

I lean towards the darkest browns and cordovans, so that narrows it down...
Battered Seal HH: Marks too much and too easily
Seal Goatskin: Beautiful, but it is coated, right? How do coated leathers age? This worries me.
Dark Seal Vicenza: Very dark. Possibly the one I'll buy, though the sample has a weird recurring creasing pattern, and feels bit 'dry' compared to even the other Vicenza colours. Maybe just a poor cast off piece as sample? Also no colour variation at all (I like a bit)
Cordovan Vicenza: Looks and feels great, but not dark enough for my tastes.
Seal Jerky: Probably looks and feels the best of the whole bunch, but like the Seal Goatskin, it appears coated?
Cordovan Steer and HH CXL: Show a TON of colour, very pretty tone, but creases and mark too easily and too much and would age oh so fast. Both less pliable than the Brown HH CXL.
Seal Vicenza: Very very nice in every way, feels nicer in the hand than the Dark Seal, but I like darker...
Oil Pull: Feels nice, but marks too much while showing little grain.
Brown Steer CXL: Creased up a crazy amount and felt very thick. Not a fan.
Brown HH CXL: Fantastic. The best colour of the bunch, without doubt. Behaves better, proves more pliable, and marks and creases the least of all the CXLs, by a country mile. Really fabulous, but can I live with it and want to wear it every day? The steer CXL jacket was too much for me, and this isn't as unwieldy as that, but still substantial. And less $$$ than the Dark Seal Vicenza too.

Of course I also wonder if I simply received an exceptional Brown HH CXL and a poor Dark Seal Vicenza. They're the two it'll come down to. The Jerky and Goat would be in the mixer too, if not for the apparent coating? Can anyone comment on this?

 

[Rich22]

Here are some of the jackets, with comparatively confusing sizing, from Thurston's website.

First off, two size 44" Cafe Racers:



Both are a full inch bigger PtP than Aero list size for a 46" jacket! And two inches bigger than their own listing.

Here's a 42" Cafe Racer from Thurston's:

It measures larger than the list size for the 44" in both PtP and shoulder, and has the same PtP size as the 46", despite the two tag size difference.

Here's a 46" Board Racer:

That's an inch and a half bigger PtP than list size. That'd fit me perfectly. It's not a one off, either, here's another 46" Board Racer with very similar specs:


I'd love to compare existing Board Racer and Cafe Racer jackets from Aero's own site, but I can only see one of these in my size:

It's 1.5 inches PtP larger than list size, and half an inch larger than tag size 46" is listed! The proportions are also much more in line with the Thurston's examples.

Any one know what the deal is with this? Cheers lads!

 

[Fanch]

Almost two months ago I said "Since you live in London I would seriously consider a trip to Galashiels to try on jackets there to see what you need and what fits." At this point in time I would again repeat what I said in post #6.

 

[ton312]

Here are some of the jackets, with comparatively confusing sizing, from Thurston's website.

First off, two size 44" Cafe Racers:
View attachment 91095
View attachment 91106

Both are a full inch bigger PtP than Aero list size for a 46" jacket! And two inches bigger than their own listing.

Here's a 42" Cafe Racer from Thurston's:
View attachment 91096
It measures larger than the list size for the 44" in both PtP and shoulder, and has the same PtP size as the 46", despite the two tag size difference.

Here's a 46" Board Racer:
View attachment 91097
That's an inch and a half bigger PtP than list size. That'd fit me perfectly. It's not a one off, either, here's another 46" Board Racer with very similar specs:
View attachment 91102

I'd love to compare existing Board Racer and Cafe Racer jackets from Aero's own site, but I can only see one of these in my size:
View attachment 91105
It's 1.5 inches PtP larger than list size, and half an inch larger than tag size 46" is listed! The proportions are also much more in line with the Thurston's examples.

Any one know what the deal is with this? Cheers lads!

Man I'll take a stab at this but I can't promise any real accuracy in what I'm about to type. But this is my understanding. Let's say a size 42" CR has an acceptable p2p of 24" an acceptable margin of deviation of 1/2" means anything from 23.5" to 24.5" is within spec. Same with a 44" with an on spec of 25" p2p.
This same 1/2" deviation is applied across all the non-customizable areas (shoulders, hem)...it can get tricky however if a jacket is ordered in two sizes, i.e 42" tapered to a 40".
The board racer could be considered a premier pattern so it's automatically going to measure "a size down" from the standard CR pattern and apply the same 1/2" deviation rule.
Another possibility is that Aero and TB measure the jackets in a different way. I doubt it but I suppose it is possible. Since you've had a fit jacket and you know where you need additional room I'd use that as your baseline, communicate your needs with Aero and rest assured they will properly fit you up.