Advice needed on new Aero Cafe Racer jacket

[Seb Lucas]

Rich - couple of things.

There were quite a few long - well over tbe belt line - period era cafe racers. Buco, Brimaco, Brooks, Kehoe and Beau Breed to name some. Short isn't necessariyl period accurate but is the preferred look of many today.

I had a well worn FQHH jacket that was 10 years old and never got comfortable.

 

[Monitor]

Most old CR's were a bit longer. 26" was the magic number and I have rarely seen one with the back length less than 25". Even the earliest CR's were all longer than the cross zips of the time, which were regularly 23" or so.

As for the hide, I would always go with FQHH. It's tough, ages better than anything else on the market and it's Aero's trademark hide. Like, you'd go to Aero because of it. Also, I have never ever found any of my CXL jackets to be particularly uncomfortable. In my limited experience, FQHH breaks in very quickly (all the jackets that I have had too a week, two tops to soften up) and on a sunny, warmer day, it can literally become one of the softest jackets you'll have.

But that doesn't always need to be the case. One jacket in particula, one of those cop coats Aero used to make... That thing pretty much near unwearable. Might as well have been made from wood. That one was from the final days of old regime so God knows what it was they made it from.

What Sloan says, though - you can't go wrong with Tumbled in CXL FQHH.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Yes, most of the old ones I have owned (size 42) are 26.5 to 27 inch backs except for a Brimaco that was 28 inches. Interesting when you consider the average height in the 1950's of five nine for men. At 6ft 2 I usually get a 27.5 inch back when I have one made for me.

Cafe racers started of as "shirts" so they were often longer by design in the beginning.

 

[Sloan1874]

I suspect that going from a mall jacket to FQHH is a bit of a shock to the system initially. It will literally stand up on its own and it takes a bit of wearing to get it to 'relax' and start to mould to your body, but it's worth the effort to get a jacket that is uniquely 'yours'. The mid-weight leather is an equally valid route, though, I like my FQHH and HH jackets equally, they both have their charms.
The thing about the excessive weight, I've always suspected, comes in part, though not always, from people not getting the right size. If it fits properly ie not sliding off the shoulders and follows broadly the shape of the wearer, then the weight of even a Barnstormer will be spread evenly around the body.
The back on this BR has a rather nice yoke. The blackened brown HH is great too: https://www.facebook.com/ThurstonBr...350119504258/1505347272837876/?type=3&theater

 

[Seb Lucas]

Some bad fitting jackets no doubt contributed to people's views. But I think the weight thing is often just personal preference. I don't like heavy tweed on, let alone FQHH. I've never liked wearing 3oz leather, even a soft, easy cowhide. I run warm and anything that I can feel on me just doesn't appeal. Of course down here there's the warmer weather problem to add to this. But you know, - I'd love to like FQHH. It screams cool. If feels bad...

 

[Fanch]

^^^ On the other hand veg tanned Vicenza and veg tanned goatskin, particularly Vicenza, look cool and feel good too. To me the best virtue of CXL FQHH is its water resistance. For the others, an umbrella ...

 

[Rich22]

Between manufacturers making the jackets short, and various posts on here about how they shouldn't be lengthened to be 'genuine' in style, I'd just taken that as being the way they were meant to be. Thank heavens it's not the case! I hate the look of high riding jackets, that often have t shirt or shirt poking out from underneath.

The CXL FQHH seems divisive doesn't it, a real love/hate thing going on with its owners. I'm assuming the people here saying FQHH are referring to the CXL by Horween? Perhaps different CXL jackets just perform differently or inconsistantly? The same leather can't at the same time be 'very soft' in a short space of time, and 'unbearably stiff' after years. By the way, it's bonkers we call it FQHH rather than just HH, considering all HH jackets are also FQHH. Perhaps the Vicenza is the safer way to go for me- and the Seal does look lovely. It's thinner too, right? Work takes me to Asia most of the year, and it's rarely the cold parts I end up in. Waterproof qualities will be important, but reports of the Vicenza suggest it also resists the rain well...

The tumbled isn't an approach I'd take, comfier as it may be, because I don't like the intentionally distressed look, I'd rather create that naturally.

As for length, I had a look at my favourite casual jackets, and got my tape measure out. The tend to be around 28-28.5 long. My favourite t-shirts hover around 27-28, and due to my longish torso it can be a pain buying nice fitted t's as they tend to come out shorter than that in a snug fit. I think with my body shape I'd ask for 28 length, as half an inch either side of that would be acceptable.

By the way, Fanch, I stumbled across a number of your old posts, and I think you and I share a lot of the same preferences when it comes to jackets and their details.

 

[Rich22]

The back on this BR has a rather nice yoke. The blackened brown HH is great too: https://www.facebook.com/ThurstonBr...350119504258/1505347272837876/?type=3&theater

It is a very nice height, but I'd take out the western point. The centre gusset doesn't look so great perhaps, but I can imagine it being far more useful than the sleeve gussets (that these jackets come with as standard) when reaching forwards.

Do we generally think it's a good or bad thing when all 4 of those seams meet at the same point? Or is it one of those aesthetic things that kinda spoils the fit/hang?

 

[Rich22]

Fanch, do you find the interior vertical pockets useful without any fastening? This is how I'd like it too, if there is a little drop in there so a wallet can't just wiggle its way out...

The sleeve zips I like the look of, and only last night realised come at various angles on different jackets. I can't quite make my mind up where I like the look of them best, but it is perhaps towards the outside of the palm, in a position above the little finger. I wouldn't like them immediately below/in line with the palms I don't think.

 

[Edward]

1. Delete external kidney panel (keep internal panel)
2. Add a high yoke with a curve, no western point

Best to speak to Aero about these. Since 2012 and changes in management, Aero have dropped the 'anything goes' culture, and they have to be happy that it won't compromise the design - after all, the product they put out there with their name on it is how they are judged by potential customers. They definitely won't make any changes that involved having to alter the pattern. Best to ask them and see what they say.

1. Add 2 1/2 inch leather strip to inside bottom trim of jacket (assuming they’re cool with this. Seems a good idea for durability.)

As others have noted, this is no longer an option. Ken killed that off when he returend to the business in 2012. It wasn't part of the original designs, and it would complicate things for any future replacement of a lining. The lining on the jackets was sewn in underneath the flap, so it would have to be removed before the liner could - just the way these things work. The old regime had also been charging an extra fifty quid for the option, which Ken felt was unfair to the customer as he didn'tg consider it necessary for durability. FWIW, I've had jackets both with and without, and it has made no disceranble difference to me.

1. Contrast stitching

1. 
   
   Yes, this can be very cool. avoid too light a thread colour so it doesn't get grubby.
   

   [*]4 pocket version of jacket, with zips deleted from hand warmers. Maybe line the hand warmers with something nice.

Seems viable - talk to Aero. Moleskin, as Sloan suggests, is good for pocket bags.

Add an inch to length (or more even), as my torso is long.

Talk to Aero on this, and try some on. As others have noted, the cafe racer types were historically longer (and are still) than cross-zip MC styles. Don't make the mistake of trying to lengthen a jacket to match the lower waistbands on modern trousers in the same way they do a higherwait, though, or it risks throwing off the proportions of the design. Bear in mind that Insurrection jackets you see are all ordered, I believe, from Aero with an inch added already, and factor that in - though this is the sort of thing you can iron out at the factory.

There’s a few things I need to decide on, that I’d appreciate advice on:

1. Leather choice. I like really dark browns, or dark cordovans. The FQHH CXL looks fantastic, but I’m a bit concerned about people saying it’s stiff to the point it becomes a struggle to put your phone to your ear. I want to wear the jacket a LOT. The lightweight and goat jackets are other options, but they don’t look quite so good in the pics, but do drape well.

1. 
   
   This is very subjective from person to person, though I've never found a CXL FQHH jacket to need more than a week or so of regular wear to loosen up. I don't get what some people complain about with it re break in or weight, but that's all subjective. Try the different options up there. If you are ever gnig to ride in it, I'd be sticking with the heavier hides - or maybe goat, as goat has excellent abrasion resistence.
   

   [*]Action back or no action back. I have broad shoulders, but I prefer a cleaner look. Is the bi-swing back likely to really help much? As it ends quite high it’s above the real stretch point which is just below the arm pit.
   [*]Can you add cinches at the sides? Would you? I’ve seen that on other Aero Racers and thought it looked cool, and is functional due to my tendency to fluctuate in weight.

   
   A lot depends on how you want it to fit - if you go for a very snug jacket, gussets help, but side tabs won't do much. Best to try on different options.

1. Wind flap behind the zip? Would you add this? I like it on my other jackets for its fictional value… I don't know if it is really needed here.

1. 
   
   Great if you're gonig to ride with it, though irrelevant otherwise imo - if it gets windy and cold enough that you'd need a windflap when you're not on a motorcycle, I can't see a CR being the jacket of choice anyhow.
   
   

   [*]Can you add an interior pocket in the lining with no snap? Rather than adding a leather pocket with a snap on the inside, which will show through to the exterior after wear.

   
   I've never had a problem with pocket-show through. You can get the Aero pockets in the facing with a stud, a zip, or no fastening, according to preference. Never knowen them to put pockets in the lining itself, but you can always ask.

1. Lining choice. I’m leaning towards the tartan wool for its thermal values and odour advantage over the cotton drill. I think I’ll have the cotton in the sleeves.

1. 
   
   The wool is warmer than the drill, which might limit the temperatures in which yuo can wear it (it does me, but that's subjective). The drill is definitely more durable, imo. Personal choice.

Those jackets look great! Do Aero make the Sheene directly on request for customers? It seems to come out so well...

I think they will, to order.

After seeing a number of lovely Sheene's this evening, I have two new questions:

Two panels on the sleeves vs three panel construction... what is the advantage of three? Why do Aero tend to favour three?

The Sheene seems to run longer in the body than the Cafe Racer; rather than sitting mid-belt it drops perhaps an inch below the belt line, right above the rear jean pockets. This looks better to me. Is the intentional from the manufacturer or is everyone just adding length by request?

Sleeve panels - in large part, simply because that's how they were made back in the day. The "Japanese Tight fit" Premier line tend to be two piece so they can be much tighter....

Length-wise, do note that Insurrection spec all their jackets 1" longer in the body than standard at Aero. That can make a noticeable visual difference in some patterns.

 

[Edward]

It is a very nice height, but I'd take out the western point. The centre gusset doesn't look so great perhaps, but I can imagine it being far more useful than the sleeve gussets (that these jackets come with as standard) when reaching forwards.

Do we generally think it's a good or bad thing when all 4 of those seams meet at the same point? Or is it one of those aesthetic things that kinda spoils the fit/hang?

The seam running down the centre of the back panel on the Boardracer is just a seam, there's no gusset in there. Aero have done them with a one-piece before, but Denny is clear that the jacket can't be quite so neatly-fitted in the back without there being two panels.

 

[Rich22]

Best to speak to Aero about these. Since 2012 and changes in management, Aero have dropped the 'anything goes' culture, and they have to be happy that it won't compromise the design - after all, the product they put out there with their name on it is how they are judged by potential customers. They definitely won't make any changes that involved having to alter the pattern. Best to ask them and see what they say.

I rang up and they said this is absolutely fine and common, no problem at all. You just have to have a yoke or kidney panel, you can't just choose one huge back piece.

As others have noted, this is no longer an option. Ken killed that off when he returend to the business in 2012. It wasn't part of the original designs, and it would complicate things for any future replacement of a lining. The lining on the jackets was sewn in underneath the flap, so it would have to be removed before the liner could - just the way these things work. The old regime had also been charging an extra fifty quid for the option, which Ken felt was unfair to the customer as he didn'tg consider it necessary for durability. FWIW, I've had jackets both with and without, and it has made no disceranble difference to me.

I'm now temped by the corduroy strip, very temped. It sounds like a good alternative.

Yes, this can be very cool. avoid too light a thread colour so it doesn't get grubby.

Seems viable - talk to Aero. Moleskin, as Sloan suggests, is good for pocket bags.

Yep and yep

Talk to Aero on this, and try some on. As others have noted, the cafe racer types were historically longer (and are still) than cross-zip MC styles. Don't make the mistake of trying to lengthen a jacket to match the lower waistbands on modern trousers in the same way they do a higherwait, though, or it risks throwing off the proportions of the design. Bear in mind that Insurrection jackets you see are all ordered, I believe, from Aero with an inch added already, and factor that in - though this is the sort of thing you can iron out at the factory.

I'll talk this through to them. I tend to wear Iron Heart jeans with a mid/high rise, and due to the size of my arse I couldn't wear modern style low rise jeans/trousers if I wanted to. The added length is just to compensate for my above average length torso

This is very subjective from person to person, though I've never found a CXL FQHH jacket to need more than a week or so of regular wear to loosen up. I don't get what some people complain about with it re break in or weight, but that's all subjective. Try the different options up there. If you are ever gnig to ride in it, I'd be sticking with the heavier hides - or maybe goat, as goat has excellent abrasion resistence.

A lot depends on how you want it to fit - if you go for a very snug jacket, gussets help, but side tabs won't do much. Best to try on different options.

Trying options on does seem the best bet. Shame it's a 9 hour drive away...

Great if you're gonig to ride with it, though irrelevant otherwise imo - if it gets windy and cold enough that you'd need a windflap when you're not on a motorcycle, I can't see a CR being the jacket of choice anyhow.

I did/do ride, but with my *ahem* checkered safety record, I perhaps shouldn't any more. haha.

I've never had a problem with pocket-show through. You can get the Aero pockets in the facing with a stud, a zip, or no fastening, according to preference. Never knowen them to put pockets in the lining itself, but you can always ask.

I've seen one custom aero with a pocket in the lining, but this could have been the old regime doing it.

The wool is warmer than the drill, which might limit the temperatures in which yuo can wear it (it does me, but that's subjective). The drill is definitely more durable, imo. Personal choice.

Drill is sounding a good shout. Is the tartan cotton as durable?

Sleeve panels - in large part, simply because that's how they were made back in the day. The "Japanese Tight fit" Premier line tend to be two piece so they can be much tighter.....

I have pretty think arms, but I like the look of as snug a fit as I can get away with. High arm holes on suits I always found gave a better range of motion. If three piece makes the sleeves any bulkier than they have to be, perhaps it's best I avoid it.

Thanks for the great reply!!

 

[Rich22]

The seam running down the centre of the back panel on the Boardracer is just a seam, there's no gusset in there. Aero have done them with a one-piece before, but Denny is clear that the jacket can't be quite so neatly-fitted in the back without there being two panels.

I read that comment before, that one piece can't be as well fitted as two.

In the photo attached it definitely appears to be a gusset, unlike the ordinary seam on other board racer examples I've seen...

 

[Rich22]

Just took delivery of this jacket from Thurston Bros. Just wanted to give a shoutout to Carrie and Wade for their wonderful customer service before anything. They made the process as seamless as possible.

Back to the jacket. Carrie earlier posted some pictures of this jacket in the other thread here that show the grain better. It is the Aero Sheene in Seal Vicenza. A standard size 38 with the below modifications. Found a tag that said that "Julie Leitch" made the jacket.

• No shoulder gussets
• Three-Pocket Design…chest pocket on left chest to be horizontal, not slanted
• Single pointed, “V”-shaped yoke
• Two piece arms (Japanese slim-fit arms)
• Antique brass hardware
• Diamond-Shaped Talon Pull on Chest Pocket
• Bell Pulls with Horsehide Toggles on Handwarmer Pockets
• .5 inches added to each side panel so that the jacket is tapered to 1 inch larger in circumference at the bottom hem
• August Collar
• Olive cotton drill lining throughout

Very happy with the fit of the jacket and the weight as it is also going to be an evening jacket and not something used for riding. The leather is soft but not as stiff as the regular FQHH and I am hoping it will drape better once it is broken in..

The shape to the back of this jacket looks great, I love the way it tapers in:

 

[Fanch]

When we speak of FQHH here, we are discussing Aero's Horween CXL FQHH. Neither of my Sheenes has an inside pocket as Ken Calder had discouraged an inside pocket on a close fitting jacket, including Cafe Racers, Board Racers, 1930's slim fit jackets, etc., although I often wish I had one vertical inside pocket without closure on all of my jackets, primarily for my IPhone. If an inside pocket is ordered, it should be a vertical inside pocket in the leather facing, NOT a horizontal pocket in the lining becasue of sagging. I forgot to mention that I ordered both of my Sheenes directly through Aero (Holly Calder).

The zippered sleeves on the Cafe Racer are on the back of the sleeves (my preference); hence much less noticeable than zippered sleeves on the front of the sleeves, such as on the J-100 Board Racer. IMO seal Vicenza is the richest color of all of the Vicenzas, and would look dynamite with olive cotton drill lining throughout. With cotton drill lining, a corduroy strip at the bottom is unnecessary and IMO negatively impacts an otherwise clean look to the inside of the jacket.

My preference is a clean back with only the back yoke, although my black Vicenza Sheene was made with shoulder gussets in error which is IMO only a small thing and actually gives the jacket a bit of additional "character" but functionally feels more or less the same as my russet Sheene that has no gussets.

 

[Rich22]

When we speak of FQHH here, we are discussing Aero's Horween CXL FQHH. Neither of my Sheenes has inside pocket as Ken Calder had discouraged an inside pocket on a close fitting jacket, including Cafe Racers, Board Racers, 1930's slim fit jackets, etc., although I often wish I had one vertical inside pocket without closure on all of my jackets, primarily for my IPhone. If an inside pocket is ordered, it should be a vertical inside pocket in the leather facing, NOT a horizontal pocket in the lining becasue of sagging. I forgot to mention that I ordered both of my Sheenes directly through Aero (Holly Calder).

The zippered sleeves on the Cafe Racer are on the back of the sleeves (my preference); hence much less noticeable than zippered sleeves on the front of the sleeves, such as on the J-100 Board Racer. IMO seal Vicenza is the richest color of all of the Vicenzas, and would look dynamite with olive cotton drill lining throughout. With cotton drill lining, a corduroy strip at the bottom is unnecessary and IMO negatively impacts an otherwise clean look to the inside of the jacket.

My preference is a clean back with only the back yoke, although my black Vicenza Sheene was made with shoulder gussets in error which is IMO only a small thing and actually gives the jacket a bit of additional "character" but functionally feels more or less the same as my russet Sheene that has no gussets.

Ok, FQHH always refers to the CXL, got it

The pocket thing makes sense, but I think I'd still like to sneak one in there, for times I want the storage. Your phone stays safely inside the vertical pocket, does it?

We do differ in preference on the position of the sleeve zippers- I think it would annoy me to always put my arm down onto the zipper when sitting at a table. I wonder if I can talk them into switching the zipper into the board racer position... I think it'd look great. I have noticed sometimes they put the leather really tight over the top of the zipper, so you can hardly see the zip when closed, like the main zip, and other times they leave the leather quite far apart to show off the zip. I quite like the brass, but don't know if it would look too garish and that the antique might look nicer?

And I do like me a good corduroy strip. It's only internals, and it's good enough some companies spec all their jackets with it when ordering from Aero...

We do agree on the design of the back of the jacket, however

 

[Rich22]

I've pretty much gotten such impression from the brands I've been looking into; Himel, Kehoe, DD, RMC and even the new Aero racing shirt, they all have zippers on the outside but yeah, I haven't handled that many cafe racers to begin with so my initial observation may be wrong.
I think you're right though, Technovox, sleeve zippers on the outside definitely are more rare. I've asked Aero to put them on the outside of the sleeve on my jacket so to avoid scratching everything I put my arms on to (plus I really dig the look of it) and so far I haven't really noticed any downside of my choice - though they do seem to push a bit into my hand when I pull on the throttle. I'd say that the ideal position for sleeve zippers would be on the back seam, which tends to position itself across the side of the arm when you're holding handlebars and thus never get in the way.

Found a three year old post, that I couldn't agree more with.

 

[Monitor]

Found a three year old post, that I couldn't agree more with.

Lol reading it just made me a bit sad because I realized probably hasn't sat on the bike since. . .

 

[Rich22]

Lol reading it just made me a bit sad because I realized probably hasn't sat on the bike since. . .

How come?

By the way, did you ever post a thread with pictures for your Cafe Racer with mods? I saw the one picture where it looked fantastic

 

[Rich22]

The seam running down the centre of the back panel on the Boardracer is just a seam, there's no gusset in there. Aero have done them with a one-piece before, but Denny is clear that the jacket can't be quite so neatly-fitted in the back without there being two panels.

I read that comment before, that one piece can't be as well fitted as two.

In the photo attached it definitely appears to be a gusset, unlike the ordinary seam on other board racer examples I've seen...

I just looked at the link again, and there's actually a close up pic of them pulling the seams on the back apart to reveal the gusset