Advice for newcomer on custom hatters

[scottyrocks]

. . .The thought of custom came up regarding the conformer approach; which should get the hat size correct, then I'll always know the correct size--but you all are right that, if it ends up looking funny on me, it will be an expensive mistake!

Measure your head or have someone do it for you. At the very least you'll know your real head size.

 

[bond]

Custom hats

I've been thinking about going custom and was wondering about costs and quality . After seeing the nice hats everyone orders from places like Optimo, and black sheep, or art.
Biggest question is with the quality of the felts used and is there much difference between the various custom hatters that are making hats these days?

 

[Historyteach24]

I can only speak for Falcon Park Hattery. Parker does a great job with his customs. Now I have two rabbit fur felts that are the softest felts that I own. I will leave it to someone else to speak on his beaver fur. The hat in my avitar is a Falcon Park custom. Silver belly felt with a wine ribbon. He is the MOST affordable of the custom hatters. I think a rabbit fur runs 140 plus 15 shipping. Also he is a super great guy that will build the hat along with you and makes the process quite nice. www.falconparkhattery.com

 

[scottyrocks]

There seems to be a question on custom hats every few days lately. If you do a search on custom hats you may very well find many of the answers you are looking for.

Here’s a place to start:

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/search.php?searchid=807391

 

[Blackthorn]

The only observation I would make is that Optimo seems way over priced, to me. The quality can't get any better than Art Fawcett, Black Sheep or Falcon Park, so why pay the Optimo prices?

 

[gtdean48]

Optimo uses a different source for felt bodies than Art. I think Falcon Park sources from both places. Can't say about Black Sheep but looks to be from Winchester where Art gets his bodies.
Optimo has proprietary colors done by their European source of bodies. Cost to quality, you can't beat Art. I don't have a custom from any of the rest but like Falcon Park's prices.

 

[Rabbit]

I've been thinking about going custom and was wondering about costs and quality . After seeing the nice hats everyone orders from places like Optimo, and black sheep, or art.
Biggest question is with the quality of the felts used and is there much difference between the various custom hatters that are making hats these days?

Here's one thread that came up lately:
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?43911-Advice-for-newcomer-on-custom-hatters

More specifically, to answer your questions:

Felt bodies used:

Most use Winchester felts (regular colors and some additional formulas that can be exclusive to one hatter). Optimo uses a different source. The dark-colored Winchester felts might feel relatively thick to you, being accustomed to vintage dress hats. The lighter-colored felts are closer to what you're used to. Regardless, Winchester felts are very high quality and very durable.
Optimo has different felts, and lightweight ones, too.

Felt finish:

Different from hatter to hatter, I presume. Of those who use Winchester, I can only vouch for the quality of Art's suede finish on his beaver felts which, as he confirmed, is the finish closest to vintage dress hats with their dense, smooth finish. The Winchester beaver felt has the potential for such a finish. With rabbit felt (which still makes a decent hat, I'm sure), the finish might not be entirely to your liking. But that is only an assumption, I have never handled a rabbit felt hat finished by a custom hatter. Rabbit felt doesn't felt as densely in the modern felting process as it used to, so I assume the finish quality has its limits set by the felting.
Edit: The vintage weight rabbit felt from the European source that Parker has recently added to his inventory might very well be worth a try.

Optimo makes fantastic finishes as well. Look at the prices and draw your own conclusions. I own only one Optimo and I must admit the quality of everything (materials, finish, sewing) is top shelf. And I bought it second (actually third-) hand, so can be sure that I didn't have to talk myself into liking it after I got it. lol Honestly, it's just great.

Cost/quality ratio:

I think Art's hat have a very good cost/quality ratio. I'll let others speak about the alternatives, like Black Sheep, Buckaroo, Gary White, Penman, Tumwater, and others.
Optimo's hats are, if you ask me, still adequately priced.

Note that there are differences in style between the custom hatters. Find out which style you like by checking the pictures in their main threads and their websites.

 

[jlee562]

Well, basically everyone gets their felts from Winchester anyways. That having been said, different hatters may have different techniques for finishing/stabilizing the felts. I know for example that Steve Delk at Adventurebilt has some preferred methods for doing so. Not being a master hatter myself, I'm not really in a position to quantify what these techniques do to the felt.

The exception to Winchester would be Optimo. They get their felts from Fepsa in Portugal. All of their colors are exclusive to them, so you do pay a premium for price. It's also my understanding that Optimo's felts use wild furs, which are considered to be superior. Optimo's accoutrements, such as the sweat band, vintage styled side seam liner, and ribbon work are top notch. The tacking stitches on my Optimo are practically invisible.

This should not be intended as a "knock" against any other custom hatter, because I have only positive things to say about my hats from Penman and Black Sheep, but the felt on my Optimo does definitely stand out from my other custom hats. The felt is very soft and malleable, and the color (mine is an Oxblood "Dillinger" model) is simply stunning. Even my friends who don't know anything about hats look at the Optimo and can tell that it's something special.

That having been said, my next hat will most likely be from Black Sheep. The great thing about Bob is that in addition to Winchester's standard pallet of colors, he hand dyes his own felts and ribbons to come up with unique combinations. I also particularly like Bob's creases. And he is a joy to do business with.

But let me put it this way. If you have the money for an Optimo, you will not be disappointed. Yes, other hatters will give you a fantastic product at a great price, but I certainly don't feel as if I were ripped off by Optimo. It's a great hat. On the other hand, it's pretty hard to go wrong with anyone else. I greatly admire Mr. Fawcett's hats. Mr. Penman is an excellent craftsman who does every detail of his hats by hand. And honestly I probably wear my Black Sheep more than my Optimo.

 

[jlee562]

Felt finish:

Different from hatter to hatter, I presume. Of those who use Winchester, I can only vouch for the quality of Art's suede finish which, as he confirmed, is the finish closest to vintage dress hats with their dense, smooth finish. The Winchester beaver felt has the potential for such a finish. With rabbit felt (which still makes a decent hat, I'm sure), the finish might not be entirely to your liking. But that is only an assumption, I have never handled a rabbit felt hat finished by a custom hatter. Rabbit felt doesn't felt as densely in the modern felting process as it used to, so I assume the finish quality has its limits set by the felting.

Oh, I can also chime in here and add to Rabbit's excellent post. My Penman is a rabbit fur hat, as at the time I was being more thrifty with my spending on hats. John's rabbit fur is great. It's a bit thinner than the beaver hats I have. It's my understanding that the formulation John uses is exclusive to him, and I know that he is very proud of the quality and touts it as better than Akubra's renowned felt. Rabbit hats are inherently a bit less dense than beaver so the felt moves and reacts a bit differently. The finish is still quite soft.

 

[Rabbit]

Jared, that's very interesting information about Penman's rabbit felt. Thanks for sharing!

 

[danofarlington]

Nothing wrong with rabbit fur.

 

[1961MJS]

I've been thinking about going custom and was wondering about costs and quality . After seeing the nice hats everyone orders from places like Optimo, and black sheep, or art.
Biggest question is with the quality of the felts used and is there much difference between the various custom hatters that are making hats these days?

Hi

Custom hats are for when you understand what style, brim width, open crown height, and crease look good with respect to your face. Until you've determined what size etc you want, I suggest you go the least expensive route until you decide. There appear to be several hat shops in Milwaukee, so you can work out what you want.

When you KNOW what style fits your face, I suggest TonyB from the Lounge for Fedoras, and Major Moore for Western hats and anything else. He also does Fedoras. I have a hat from both places. The hat I own from Tony is incredibly soft 100% beaver fur. The hat I own from Major Moore is a 3 inch brimmed Roughrider hat, looks great and is wearing very well. It's 100% bunny fur, in Western weight (heavier) so it doesn't bend, but then it's not supposed to.

I'm not trying to detract from Art Fawcett, Black Sheep, Falcon Park, or Optimo, I just don't own their hats yet.

Hope this helps.

 

[bond]

Great info .Since I live close to Optimo I think Ill plan a visit to take a look at his hats.
Price is secondary to quality as far as my concerns ,but I appreciate the good references to all of the hatters,
Rabbit your critique suited me in regards to the Vintage Borsalino felts that I am used to wearing,I like the quality of those but I am unable to reallyfind a color that I like ,yet.
Thanks again for the info.

 

[Rabbit]

Great info .Since I live close to Optimo I think Ill plan a visit to take a look at his hats.
Price is secondary to quality as far as my concerns ,but I appreciate the good references to all of the hatters,
Rabbit your critique suited me in regards to the Vintage Borsalino felts that I am used to wearing,I like the quality of those but I am unable to reallyfind a color that I like ,yet.
Thanks again for the info.

If you're looking for an equivalent to the earlier Borsos (lighter and regular weights), Optimo is indeed the best choice you can make.
They change their felt color palette once a year, I believe. In store, they may additionally have limited amounts of felts from previous seasons.

 

[danofarlington]

The real problem to me is the abundance of good choices once you get into the custom world. Desires just outrun the money for them. But you could probably get a lot of good outcomes in today's hat world.

 

[DJH]

As Dan mentioned, one of the problems with custom hats is that we have a wealth of choices and it can be hard to decide what to do.

Over the last year or so, I've had the chance to work with several hatters and have had a great experience with all of them.

Bond, if I lived where you do I would certainly drive down to Chicago and see what is going on at Optimo. Actually, I fully intend to go there myself at some point - I'd love to get a custom hat made by Graham and have the chance to chat with him and Tiffani in the store.

I have owned an Optimo hat (since sold) and the quality is first class; well worth the asking price for a custom I'd say. I also have a Borsalino that was rebuilt by Optimo - again I have nothing but great things to say about the workmanship.

If you don't go with Optimo, for me the best place to start is with Mr. Fawcett. Not to take anything away from the other custom hat makers, but the fitting process with Art is a great way to get a new hat that fits perfectly; right out of the box. Better yet, for a token fee Art can make you a custom bandblock the exact shape of your head. This has been just so helpful for me in getting many hats to fit as though they are custom made - especially those vintage ones that might have shrunk just a little over the years.

I'd rate the quality of Art's hats just as good as the Optimo I had, and I especially love Art's lightweight felts. If you like the vintage Cavanagh edge brims, Art's welted brim comes pretty close.

The price for Mr. Fawcett's hats hats is remarkably low for the quality and his turnaround time is often just a few weeks - the man is a hat making machine!

Other's I've worked with and would recommend are:

Tumwater: As Mike mentioned a few posts above, Tony makes fantastic hats. I have three and really enjoy wearing them. He would be the first to admit that he isn't as versatile as Art, but if you like the style of his hats (I do, especially his bold "in your face" ribbons) you'd be very happy with his work. I don't know what Tony's lead-time is right now, but I think for me it varied between about 6 weeks and 3 months or so. Tony uses the felt bodies from Winchester and finishes them off very well.

Penman: John is mostly know for his Indy hats - he has a huge following over at the IndyGear COW forum. I have one of his non-Indy Casablanca style hats and like it a lot.

One of John's claims to fame is that every stitch is done by hand. This results in a very individual styled hat. Penman also uses the Winchester felts and his lead-time is about 6 months or so.

Black Sheep: One good thing with our custom hat guys is that they are all fun to work with and Bob at Black Sheep is no exception. I have one of his hats and another on order.

The quality of Bob's work is excellent, but what clinched it for me was that he offers to custom dye the felt bodies. He uses Winchester bodies, but is able to offer a wider colour palette than other Winchester hatters. If non of the Winchester colours work for you, a conversation with Bob might well be a good thing to do.

Black Sheep has a huge range of options - dress hats, straw hats, western hats and some fantastic looking ladies hats. Mine took about 6 months to get delivered - might be quicker if buying a standard colour.

Garrison Hatters: David Garrison is a maker of Indian Jones style hats and I have one made to look like the Raiders hat. Mine is a rabbit felt and a fantastic deal at $175. He makes a beaver version too, but it is priced as much as a Penman and I'd personally stick with John or with Steve Delk for a beaver Indy hat.

My Garrison was made and delivered by David in about 7 weeks, I think.

I don't have first hand experience of anyone else, so can't comment on the other hat makers. As I said at the start, being so close to Optimo it would be crazy not to check them out. Otherwise, for quality, price, perfect fit, quick delivery and a great experience I'd go with Art for a first custom.