bendingoak
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mayserwegener
What's your point?
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Adventurebilt hats confuse me
- Thread starter Jedwbpm
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bowlerman
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... and who made them??Nice couple of hats there
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The felts and finishes I showed required specialized machinery and processes. The total hand made concept SD preaches has limitations. Also beaver fur is not the end all and be all. For paticular finishes rabbit / hare produces better results than beaver.
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The felts and hats were made by J. Hückel´s Söhne probably early 1930s maybe late 20s. They combined machine and hand work as did other great mechanized hat companies of that time period.
Bebop
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After reading this thread quite carefully............... What a horrible, unbelievable mess the whole Adventurbilt Hat thing turned into. Ex-firemen making hats, some guy in Germany, one uses one block the other uses another, different qualities, names and prices........... I'm dizzy and I am still confused by Adventurbilt. :eusa_doh:
Mobile Vulgus
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Well, maybe the good news is that if you don't care about the Indy Movies and the hats thereform... you can forget all about this whole thing!!
Absolutely. I don't think I would fool with that company at all. There are so many excellent reliable sources for hats. Why subject yourself to it all. I even went to the web site to check out the Henry hat and get a price. The price, it seems, is a secret.
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You mean the page titled "Prices" right between "Ordering Process" & "Order Form" is a secret?
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DanielJones
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Lest we forget, Adventurebilt got their start making the iconic Indy hats, for themselves and the fellow fans, but they also made, and still make, other styles as well. The predominant order is still for the Indy style of hat, but any other style can and does get made for those not interested in said hat style. They do have the blocks for other styles if one so wishes. If you yourself do not wish to order from Adventurebilt then by all means, don't. But please don't discourage someone who may still want a hat from Steve or Marc. That just isn't cricket.:suspicious:
I don't see it as an unbelievable mess at all, the different qualities of hats materials it quite clear to me, I get it. And what difference does it make what the hat makers former background was? If I recall correctly, I think that Art was in the construction trade before getting into costuming and hats, and then whittling it down to just hats.
Heck, even someone like Tom Hirt, who has been in the custom hat game a lot longer than the above mentioned folks offers different quality materials in his hats and the prices reflect the materials used. Even he makes hats for the movies and gets inundated when folks find out. His prices and materials run the gamut from a rabbit blend up to pure beaver ($195 - $685), then he has a beaver/chinchilla blend that goes for $2795. And those prices haven't changed in a decade that I know of. He is a hard person to get a hold of at times but that doesn't stop folks who want his skill in making hats. I think for any hat maker, your imagination is their limitation.
Even back in the day you had factory made hats and hand made hats. The hand made shops were small like today and offered the same services that the current custom hats shops do today. They were either a one man operation or maybe a staff of about five, each person with their speciality, but a lot of times it was one person and maybe their son, and that's it.
Heck, even one hat shop wrote a fine book in 1919 about how to set up and operate your own custom hat shop offering new hats, cleaning & reblocking services, just like they do today. It's an interesting and educating read into the world of hat makers and give one a good perspective as to what the custom hat maker does and goes through. Several of the hat makers here used that book to help educate themselves in the art of hat making and then added to that knowledge using what I would call 'experimental archaeology'. I highly recommend getting a copy of this book for general reference in ones library. It is invaluable to have on hand. The book is called "Scientific Hat Finishing & Renovation" by Henry L. Ermatinger, Hatter. It is a spiral bound reprint that can be had on ebay for around $17. A small cost for an enlightening book. A lot of the skills and equipment that they used back then are still used today in the small shop. Very little has changed, other than maybe some innovation one hat maker will use to make his job a little easier on himself.
Yes, some small shops did use some automated machinery other than sewing machines, but nothing on the scale of what the factories had in use, then or today. When it came down to the finish though, it was done by hand as the custom shops do it today. Most factories today couldn't even come close to the finish of hats from the 1920's & 30's, so you get what we see today. Nice looking hats, sure, but will they last the 80+ of the vintage ones that we possess today that are just as nice looking? Probably not so much. For those of us that wish to have a hat that will last several generations, we go custom.
I have really been studying hats now for the past seven years. The conclusion that I come to is that I want the best bang for the buck, and a factory job just isn't going to cut it for me. The factory hats of today don't even come close in durability to the same style of hat from even as early as the 1950's. A modern factory hat is a good starting point for those that are on a tight budget and don't have a lot to spend, the next step is the vintage route where one see the shortfalls of modern factory hats by comparison. I have ah modern Stetson and a Dobbs from the early 1930's. One, the Dobbs looks in better condition to the modern fedora, two I wouldn't hesitate to wear the vintage Dobbs in the rain as I know it won't lose color or shape due to being wet. Similarly, I don't even hesitate to wear my Penman in the rain because, again, I know it won't lose its color or shape due to the rain. It is of the same superior quality as my vintage, but it is made for my noggin. So, I've bought my share of vintage hats, and now I gravitate to the customs. Would I order from Steve if I had the coin of the realm in pocket, You bet I would, because I know I'm going to get top shelf quality from him and I know it will last a life time or longer. That won't stop me from ordering from other hat makers as well though, because I enjoy variety. Would I order an Indy Hat from Steve. Maybe. I own several now, and I think I got what I was looking for from John, so Steve I think can make me another style, or maybe an Indy style in an altogether different color like Navy Blue. But I'll have to wait until I get more coin in my pocket before I can do that. If you have the money to spend and that particular hat is your "want", I say go for it. That's not such a bad thing after all, is it?
Alright, enough of my soapbox banter. I return you to your regular programming.
Cheers!
Dan
I don't see it as an unbelievable mess at all, the different qualities of hats materials it quite clear to me, I get it. And what difference does it make what the hat makers former background was? If I recall correctly, I think that Art was in the construction trade before getting into costuming and hats, and then whittling it down to just hats.
Heck, even someone like Tom Hirt, who has been in the custom hat game a lot longer than the above mentioned folks offers different quality materials in his hats and the prices reflect the materials used. Even he makes hats for the movies and gets inundated when folks find out. His prices and materials run the gamut from a rabbit blend up to pure beaver ($195 - $685), then he has a beaver/chinchilla blend that goes for $2795. And those prices haven't changed in a decade that I know of. He is a hard person to get a hold of at times but that doesn't stop folks who want his skill in making hats. I think for any hat maker, your imagination is their limitation.
Even back in the day you had factory made hats and hand made hats. The hand made shops were small like today and offered the same services that the current custom hats shops do today. They were either a one man operation or maybe a staff of about five, each person with their speciality, but a lot of times it was one person and maybe their son, and that's it.
Heck, even one hat shop wrote a fine book in 1919 about how to set up and operate your own custom hat shop offering new hats, cleaning & reblocking services, just like they do today. It's an interesting and educating read into the world of hat makers and give one a good perspective as to what the custom hat maker does and goes through. Several of the hat makers here used that book to help educate themselves in the art of hat making and then added to that knowledge using what I would call 'experimental archaeology'. I highly recommend getting a copy of this book for general reference in ones library. It is invaluable to have on hand. The book is called "Scientific Hat Finishing & Renovation" by Henry L. Ermatinger, Hatter. It is a spiral bound reprint that can be had on ebay for around $17. A small cost for an enlightening book. A lot of the skills and equipment that they used back then are still used today in the small shop. Very little has changed, other than maybe some innovation one hat maker will use to make his job a little easier on himself.
Yes, some small shops did use some automated machinery other than sewing machines, but nothing on the scale of what the factories had in use, then or today. When it came down to the finish though, it was done by hand as the custom shops do it today. Most factories today couldn't even come close to the finish of hats from the 1920's & 30's, so you get what we see today. Nice looking hats, sure, but will they last the 80+ of the vintage ones that we possess today that are just as nice looking? Probably not so much. For those of us that wish to have a hat that will last several generations, we go custom.
I have really been studying hats now for the past seven years. The conclusion that I come to is that I want the best bang for the buck, and a factory job just isn't going to cut it for me. The factory hats of today don't even come close in durability to the same style of hat from even as early as the 1950's. A modern factory hat is a good starting point for those that are on a tight budget and don't have a lot to spend, the next step is the vintage route where one see the shortfalls of modern factory hats by comparison. I have ah modern Stetson and a Dobbs from the early 1930's. One, the Dobbs looks in better condition to the modern fedora, two I wouldn't hesitate to wear the vintage Dobbs in the rain as I know it won't lose color or shape due to being wet. Similarly, I don't even hesitate to wear my Penman in the rain because, again, I know it won't lose its color or shape due to the rain. It is of the same superior quality as my vintage, but it is made for my noggin. So, I've bought my share of vintage hats, and now I gravitate to the customs. Would I order from Steve if I had the coin of the realm in pocket, You bet I would, because I know I'm going to get top shelf quality from him and I know it will last a life time or longer. That won't stop me from ordering from other hat makers as well though, because I enjoy variety. Would I order an Indy Hat from Steve. Maybe. I own several now, and I think I got what I was looking for from John, so Steve I think can make me another style, or maybe an Indy style in an altogether different color like Navy Blue. But I'll have to wait until I get more coin in my pocket before I can do that. If you have the money to spend and that particular hat is your "want", I say go for it. That's not such a bad thing after all, is it?
Alright, enough of my soapbox banter. I return you to your regular programming.
Cheers!
Dan
scottyrocks
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And then there is some of that underlying anti-Indiana-Jones bias peeking its head out.
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Sorry but SD discounted any mechanized work on a hat regardless of time period. The hat finishes I displayed would also be beyond the scope of small custom hatters of the early 20th century.
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My post had nothing to do with Indy style hats. It would apply to any style hat they make.
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Mobile Vulgus
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I didn't notice that anyone here had "anti-Indiana-Jones bias," really. No one was saying anything to denigrate that actual hats, the movie, or the style of hats.
DJH
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The Adventurebilt saga is quite a story. I'm not a movie fan, but I can see why a lot of people would sign up for those Indiana Jones hate.
This thread is interesting, but the best thing for me was that it prompted me to check out the Penman site. Mr. Penman makes some very nice hats - I could easily see a "The Penman" hanging out on my head at some point in the future!
This thread is interesting, but the best thing for me was that it prompted me to check out the Penman site. Mr. Penman makes some very nice hats - I could easily see a "The Penman" hanging out on my head at some point in the future!
bendingoak
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It sounds to me some have made up there minds before entering even into this thread. It's a short coming of some, I understand that. I never thought anyone would hold being a firemen against me and being injured. I'm a bit shocked by that. I guess I'm the first guy to change occupation.
Mobile Vulgus
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When did this happen?
scottyrocks
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I dont know that it was directed specifically at John, unless Steve (also?) was a fireman, but see Bebop post #45:
'After reading this thread quite carefully............... What a horrible, unbelievable mess the whole Adventurbilt Hat thing turned into. Ex-firemen making hats, some guy in Germany, one uses one block the other uses another, different qualities, names and prices........... I'm dizzy and I am still confused by Adventurbilt.'
Last edited:
Mobile Vulgus
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OK. So where did anyone attack anyone for being an injured fireman? If someone did attack him for being an injured fireman, I'd join the chorus to call this an unfair, scurrilous attack. But before I get my dander up, I'd like to see who did it and when.
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