Actual production Schott B3 257S quality

[Vintagestyle]

I have had two B3 Schott 257S ( the original Schott high end bomber B3) , through the years , one more than 30 years ago which i kept for more than 20 years and another one i bought maybe 6 years ago or so .
The first one was not great quality but i was a late teenager and didn't knew how to choose a good leather .
The last one i bought is of great quality , really really thick wool inside , as good as Schott B3 can be BUT , i bought it a size too big ( in the late 80's , fashion was more on the large clothes , pants ...etc and i choose the same size as my old one ) .
So , i went in a shop in Paris where they use to sell Good leather jackets for 40 years , Vanson , Schott, Aeroleather ( except that they don't get any Vanson for years and much fewer Aero than they used to and no Aero B3 ) to see if i could find a good one that sould fit me better .
I checked the recent production Schott B3 257S but it seems to be of quite less good quality than the one i bought a few years ago !
Much thinner wool and thinner skin as well , the side pockets are made of a different material ( mine seems to be made in the same skin as the jacket whereas new one are some thin shitty ordinary black shiny leather . )

I know Schott leather jackets quality varies much from a jacket to another of the same model ( so better choose it in a shop ) and that every leather jacket is different due to the skin of the animal it comes from but i wonder if you have noticed an inferior quality as well on the actual production compared to a few years back ?

 

[Vintagestyle]

Here is the one i had bought a few years ago ( i must have had it for a month or so when i took that picture) , the wool is really thick and has a different appearence than the actual production ones .
I don't know how to put that in words , will try to take some pictures in a shop but the wool seems more compact on this one , with more density .
The wool / hairs on this one seems more curly , whereas in the new ones , it seems more straight hairs in lack of better words to describe it .

 

[Vintagestyle]

On the first picture here we see the jacket alone and it seems to look a bit more like mine , compared to the other pictures where the jacket is worn by a guy and the jacket he wears seem to look more like the recent production jackets i saw.
https://www.schottnyc.com/products/b3-leather-bomber-jacket.htm?catID=5

Could it be the fact i had worn the jacket for about a month , making the wool more curly and with more density ?

 

[Carlos840]

On the first picture here we see the jacket alone and it seems to look a bit more like mine , compared to the other pictures where the jacket is worn by a guy and the jacket he wears seem to look more like the recent production jackets i saw.
https://www.schottnyc.com/products/b3-leather-bomber-jacket.htm?catID=5

Could it be the fact i had worn the jacket for about a month , making the wool more curly and with more density ?

I don't think so.
I have one of these from the ealy 2000, it looks like yours, the wool is thick and curly, it was like that before i wore it. Recent ones are thinner and less curly, things change...

 

[Vintagestyle]

Thanks for your answer .
That's what i was afraid of !
Here is a closer picture of my jacket i took at the same time when nearly new .
Unfortunately i took mine a size too big .
I wonder if it would be possible to reduce its size , by one size , although i am not sure it would be easy to reduce its length as it is longer in 42 than size 40

 

[Edward]

There have been rumours of sheepskin shortages and rising prices in recent years; possibly Schott have changed supplier. Also, sheepskin is an organic material, so it will inevitably vary from flock to flock, if not sheep to sheep.

I've been occasionally tempted to go looking for one of these in black.

 

[Carlos840]

View attachment 220083 View attachment 220077 Thanks for your answer .
That's what i was afraid of !
Here is a closer picture of my jacket i took at the same time when nearly new .
Unfortunately i took mine a size too big .
I wonder if it would be possible to reduce its size , by one size , although i am not sure it would be easy to reduce its length as it is longer in 42 than size 40

The one i posted pics above was tailored...
I bought it in the early 2000 when i was still wearing things 90s style and bought it massively oversized (its a size 48 me a 42).
Once i came to my senses a few years later i realized it made me look like the Michelin man and stopped wearing it.
It spent 10 years in a closet before i decided to either sell it or have it fitted.
Since they sell for peanuts used on ebay i kept it and had it adjusted, it cost me £80 and is now what you see.
They completely reworked the jacket, made everything slimmer, the sleeves, the body, the length was kept the same.
IMO it doesn't look too bad, and since i only wear it every two or three years (it never gets cold enough) i think it was better to do that than selling it on and spending more money getting another one that i would also never wear...

 

[Vintagestyle]

The one i posted pics above was tailored...
I bought it in the early 2000 when i was still wearing things 90s style and bought it massively oversized (its a size 48 me a 42).
Once i came to my senses a few years later i realized it made me look like the Michelin man and stopped wearing it.
It spent 10 years in a closet before i decided to either sell it or have it fitted.
Since they sell for peanuts used on ebay i kept it and had it adjusted, it cost me £80 and is now what you see.
They completely reworked the jacket, made everything slimmer, the sleeves, the body, the length was kept the same.
IMO it doesn't look too bad, and since i only wear it every two or three years (it never gets cold enough) i think it was better to do that than selling it on and spending more money getting another one that i would also never wear...

If it can reassure you , you look great with it on the pictures and i wouldn't have thought it had been tailored !
So , i think i will have have mine tailored as well ,although i will have to find a good specialist for that in Paris .
Thanks very much for telling me that !

I see we were both fashion victims of the " Too Large " trend , although you beat me there !
Size 48 for 42, you went great length ! Lol
Mine is 42 for my size 40 , so i hope it will be as easy to reduce in size without mistakes .

The mid to late 80's were also known for that too large way of wearing clothes !
There were already baggy jeans at that time in mid 80's and i remember some french teenagers wearing Marithé François Girbaud oversized baggy jeans which were really fashionable back then for wannabe rappers teenagers copying the US rappers of that time , like RUN DMC, Erick B and Rakim , 2 Live Crew , Ice T, Public Enemy ...etc and i really hated that as it was too fashionable for me and as a teenager , although i loved Hip Hop , i was more ( and i am still ) into Rocker's style of clothes ( and 60's'Psychedelic Rock & 70's Hard Rock ) ; perfecto , Chippewa engineer boots or loggers ( there were no hipsters yet as post 2010) and 501 jeans !

 

[Vintagestyle]

There have been rumours of sheepskin shortages and rising prices in recent years; possibly Schott have changed supplier. Also, sheepskin is an organic material, so it will inevitably vary from flock to flock, if not sheep to sheep.

I've been occasionally tempted to go looking for one of these in black.

Yes , i understand each sheepskin or any animal skin can look different from another but here , i saw directly the difference in the wool !
It looks thinnner and less warm and the " wool hair " look straight instead of curly !
I wonder if they use another type of sheepskin ( maybe the different supplier explains it ) than what they used to , for there is such difference in the wool thickness ( i will email them about it ) .
In the shops , they are here to sell their jackets, so they tell customers it's the same but it's not .
The thing i also hate that i see on many leathers nowdays ( especialy on recent production Red Wings Engineer boots but also on some Schott jackets ) , is the Loose Grain leather , coming from a part of the animal which has loosen, like the belly ( i saw one B3 like that and some perfectos having areas like that , see picture bellow ).

 

[Vintagestyle]

Here is also an Aeroleathers B3 i saw with loose grain ( third picture ) on the net , it is really not nice !
I would like to order some jackets from them as i can't find some already made in stores of the model i love but i really fear to get that sort of shit and would refuse such jacket !

On the second picture ( coming from their website) , in another hand , the wool and leather look great ( like the wool on the first picture)

 

[Dav]

That's not loose grain, it's part of the finishing.
Here's my Eastman Irvin, covered in it.

 

[Vintagestyle]

The one i posted pics above was tailored...
I bought it in the early 2000 when i was still wearing things 90s style and bought it massively oversized (its a size 48 me a 42).
Once i came to my senses a few years later i realized it made me look like the Michelin man and stopped wearing it.
It spent 10 years in a closet before i decided to either sell it or have it fitted.
Since they sell for peanuts used on ebay i kept it and had it adjusted, it cost me £80 and is now what you see.
They completely reworked the jacket, made everything slimmer, the sleeves, the body, the length was kept the same.
IMO it doesn't look too bad, and since i only wear it every two or three years (it never gets cold enough) i think it was better to do that than selling it on and spending more money getting another one that i would also never wear...

You don't get cold weather in London ?
So it is a different London than what i think about ( although i only know London in September but it was already colder than in Paris ) ! Lol
Or i am more sensitive to cold weather than you ( that's possible indeed) ! Lol
Cause in Paris , i can tell you that even with the hotter temperature ( climat change ?) this winter ( and we got the hottest winter since 1957 i believe ), the weather is cold enough to wear that from december to march .
Especialy riding a motorbike as i do ; it's the warmest leather jacket i can think about , although i need to put a rainproof jacket over it cause Schott B3 is not water resistant .
Last time i forgot to put it above the B3 , i could litteraly press out all the water loaded in the jacket , nearly like if it went in a washing machine ! Lol

 

[Carlos840]

You don't get cold weather in London ?
So it is a different London than what i think about ( although i only know London in September but it was already colder than in Paris ) ! Lol
Or i am more sensitive to cold weather than you ( that's possible indeed) ! Lol
Cause in Paris , i can tell you that even with the hotter temperature ( climat change ?) this winter ( and we got the hottest winter since 1957 i believe ), the weather is cold enough to wear that from december to march .
Especialy riding a motorbike as i do ; it's the warmest leather jacket i can think about , although i need to put a rainproof jacket over it cause Schott B3 is not water resistant .
Last time i forgot to put it above the B3 , i could litteraly press out all the water loaded in the jacket , nearly like if it went in a washing machine ! Lol

Not for me...
I need -5c to get the B-3 out, anything more and i turn into a sweaty mess.
This year it barely froze a couple days in London, same in Belgium, I was fine with a jumper and a regular leather jacket.
I think in the 15 years i have had this jacket i maybe wore it 10 times.

 

[Vintagestyle]

That's not loose grain, it's part of the the finishing.
Here's my Eastman Irvin, covered in it.
View attachment 220144

I am not a leather specialist but i learnt that from one working in leather production and i believe the picture i posted of the Aeroleather is showing loose grain ( and for sure the Schott B3 picture i uploaded shows loose grain cause i held it in my hand to verify how the above layer of skin seems to come off from the layer bellow when rubbing it / making creases while folding it and that is what is called loose grain ) !
Yours indeed seems like the leather is " cracking " due to a really rigid finish , what seems to look different than loose grain .
Personnaly i don't like that appearance either but to each his own in leathers personal preference and if it's great for you , it's the most important .

 

[Dav]

I can assure you it is not cracking. Love it or hate it that is exactly how it was designed to look.

 

[dannyk]

I am not a leather specialist but i learnt that from one working in leather production and i believe the picture i posted of the Aeroleather is showing loose grain ( and for sure the Schott B3 picture i uploaded shows loose grain cause i held it in my hand to verify how the above layer of skin seems to come off from the layer bellow when rubbing it / making creases while folding it and that is what is called loose grain ) !
Yours indeed seems like the leather is " cracking " due to a really rigid finish , what seems to look different than loose grain .
Personnaly i don't like that appearance either but to each his own in leathers personal preference and if it's great for you , it's the most important .

Loose grain so to speak is a growing issue. If it bothers you that is. The issue and I really hope this doesn’t come off political or insensitive it’s just something I know to be true speaking to some local jacket makers and cobblers I know. Is industrial farming. Most cows and even some horses these days are just fed and fed and fed and don’t get a ton of exercise. They become lazy and fat for food production or under-activity in increasingly small areas to roam. So they will have a lot of stretch marks and fat production. So it may become an ever increasing issue. Or maybe we as people will clean up our act a little and figure this out ha. Again not trying to make a statement, or rather I am just a statement of fact I’ve heard from actual makers and distributors.

 

[Vintagestyle]

@ DAV :
I believe you that it might have been desîgned like that if you say so but i see it as finish crackings due to rigidity of the leather .

For the Loose grain , It is like stretch marks on a human body but it happens more often on the animal belly where the skin stretches more and this is a defect as it should not be use in leather production ( but they must think they would loose too much money if rejecting it all the time ).
The top leather manufacturers always reject it but it has a cost !
Also, maybe the way the animals are fed nowdays or the way the animals are bred are making it appear more often on the finish product ,although i am not sure how much it could be seen in the past on different leathers but i have the feeling it was much less often many decades ago and began to appear more and more the closer to nowdays .
About Red Wing engineer boots or Chipoewa's loose grain for example , i don't remember seeing it as often in the past ( and we don't see it much on the vintage ones sold second hand we can see regularly ) .
I wonder if it might have appear more and more post 2010 or so ?

 

[Dav]

Fair enough, I'm out of here

 

[Vintagestyle]

Loose grain so to speak is a growing issue. If it bothers you that is. The issue and I really hope this doesn’t come off political or insensitive it’s just something I know to be true speaking to some local jacket makers and cobblers I know. Is industrial farming. Most cows and even some horses these days are just fed and fed and fed and don’t get a ton of exercise. They become lazy and fat for food production or under-activity in increasingly small areas to roam. So they will have a lot of stretch marks and fat production. So it may become an ever increasing issue. Or maybe we as people will clean up our act a little and figure this out ha. Again not trying to make a statement, or rather I am just a statement of fact I’ve heard from actual makers and distributors.

That is exactly what i was thinking ( and writing in my previous post while you were writing yours ) , or at least wondering about the more recent way the animals are bred and fed in leather production !
I hate it !
Many people say that leathers were better in the past and it became especialy true at one moment decades ago about horsehide and that is why Schott began to produce perfectos in Steerhide at one stage and had stopped horsehide before reintroducing it some years ago .
Personaly i don't like Schott horsehide, i prefer their steerhide .
I think Aeroleathers horse hide is better than Schott HH but Schott Steerhide is better than Aero Steerhide ( unless i saw Aero Cowhide and thought it was Steerhide ) from what i saw at least .

 

[Vintagestyle]

Fair enough, I'm out of here

Maybe i did not express myself correctly ( sorry i am not a native English speaking , i am french ) but i said i believed what you were saying ( about your jacket ) , no problem with that , i was just saying how i see that with my own eyes ; no offense intended .
Or maybe i did not understood your last post .