AAF Shoulder Decal. To apply a meatball or not?

[Dixon Cannon]

I'm piecing an old B-17F 1:48 scale that I started back in 1978. After each "mission" I have to take it back in the hanger and do some regluing. I just had to carve a new radome from some sprew with my dremel. I have a closest full of kits I haven't even started on yet, including a 1939 balsa kit of the DC-4E 'Super Mainliner'!

Now!.... about that 8th USAAF "meatball" stencil I asked about? Hmmmmm?

-dixon cannon

 

[a2jacketpatches]

I've been an airbrush artist for many years and have top of the line Iwata guns and equipment but have never seen the stencil you're looking for. Also doing AAF insignia for the past 13 years so I'm interested as well if there's one out there but I don't think so. I cut my own stencils to block in color and that kind of thing so that may be an option for you. Below is a portrait of Dali I did back in the late 80's but only use my equipment in the most fundamental capacity these days. Funny how photo etched part were brought up in this thread. Back in the day I worked for a model maker who cast parts from resin and pewter, and also had photo etched parts made. A pretty simple process using acid and sheet brass. I often thought of having the individual Air Forces done this way to create the everlasting stencil.

 

[Stand By]

So, after a little research, it seems unlikely that a '41 contract jacket would have had a shoulder decal. So for now it will remain plain. Thanks for all the input though.

I must admit, I know nothing about the actual stenciled AAF decals - you and others here know better than me.
But the beauty of it is that it's never too late to add one later if you're still feeling that itch ... Enjoy the A2!

 

[Stand By]

I've been an airbrush artist for many years and have top of the line Iwata guns and equipment but have never seen the stencil you're looking for. Also doing AAF insignia for the past 13 years so I'm interested as well if there's one out there but I don't think so. I cut my own stencils to block in color and that kind of thing so that may be an option for you. Below is a portrait of Dali I did back in the late 80's but only use my equipment in the most fundamental capacity these days. Funny how photo etched part were brought up in this thread. Back in the day I worked for a model maker who cast parts from resin and pewter, and also had photo etched parts made. A pretty simple process using acid and sheet brass. I often thought of having the individual Air Forces done this way to create the everlasting stencil.

Wow !!! That's great work. Am hugely impressed. You clearly have a lot of talent there and a super-keen eye for copying detail ...
And I'd love a pair of Iwata's for my kits (just have Badgers)....
That's interesting to hear that P.E. parts are relatively easy to make - it runs counter to my expectation as they look so incredibly (impossibly) fine (and the pre-painted ones - how is that even possible?!). Like I said. Anathema. I love the resin and pewter after-market parts, as you say, but I'm so wary of P.E. parts. I just picked up a FSM about the basics of using them ... I wish I'd seen that before clumsily attempting my first (and only) run ! I might have stood a chance ...

It's been nice to hear others share comment about their kits. It's a wonderful hobby ...

 

[andyfalzon]

In reply to devilish, I won't go through the morals and ethics of the decal, others did so already. In the end of the day it's your decision.
However, as a manufacturer, I 'd like to share some useful information, like pointing out that the application of decal is quite tricky as there are certain risks in following the instructions exactly. If applying the decal is done unsuccessfully, it will ruin the jacket, as it would be impossible to remove it without leaving any trace. Also, applying the decal on another jacket to test, would not necessarily guarantee success unless if the two jackets are made of the same leather. Different leathers would probably behave differently if the same procedure of applying the decal is carried out. Unfortunately, the only way is by trial and error, without meaning to say that you can't be successful the first time, as you might. If you try it, be very careful.

 

[rocketeer]

I'm piecing an old B-17F 1:48 scale that I started back in 1978. After each "mission" I have to take it back in the hanger and do some regluing. I just had to carve a new radome from some sprew with my dremel. I have a closest full of kits I haven't even started on yet, including a 1939 balsa kit of the DC-4E 'Super Mainliner'!

Now!.... about that 8th USAAF "meatball" stencil I asked about? Hmmmmm?

-dixon cannon

Well off topic, but as some are talking old kits. Here is a pic of the very first model I made with the help of Dad. What really attracted me to this model was the box artwork. OK it's historically wrong, flack and fighters together? But what 7 year old could not resist this. The Revell kit was the Memphis Belle with an opening bomb bay but the box art was not as good.
All the turrets rotated and the wheels went up and down. When my own son took an interest in my old jackets, I took him to a few of the bases and gave him a brief history of the old bases, then I built the same model with him. Slightly spoilt by the more politically correct box art.

John

 

[Sloan1874]

There used to be a small newsagent in Lossiemouth, a small fishing town up in the north east of Scotland where I spent many summer holidays, and it had a back room that was lined with old Airfix models just like this. I used to spend hours just staring at the cover art.

 

[nick123]

Awesome. I never put 2 and 2 together with the fighters/flak notion. Now that you mention it I think most B-17 models have box art with this "historically incorrect" scene.
To kind of keep this on topic, here is a B-17 build. I think the aircrew are wearing B-3s.
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Fea1/801-900/Fea875_B-17_Quirk/00a.shtm

 

[Sloan1874]

In reply to devilish, I won't go through the morals and ethics of the decal, others did so already. In the end of the day it's your decision.
However, as a manufacturer, I 'd like to share some useful information, like pointing out that the application of decal is quite tricky as there are certain risks in following the instructions exactly. If applying the decal is done unsuccessfully, it will ruin the jacket, as it would be impossible to remove it without leaving any trace. Also, applying the decal on another jacket to test, would not necessarily guarantee success unless if the two jackets are made of the same leather. Different leathers would probably behave differently if the same procedure of applying the decal is carried out. Unfortunately, the only way is by trial and error, without meaning to say that you can't be successful the first time, as you might. If you try it, be very careful.

I think Andy hits it on the head. I would be terrified of getting the damn thing wrong, probably squint, and spoiling the look. I do like the decals though.

 

[a2jacketpatches]

I think Andy hits it on the head. I would be terrified of getting the damn thing wrong, probably squint, and spoiling the look. I do like the decals though.

Keep an eye out here, I may do my decal experiment tonight, and while on the subject of models at the same time, I'll be using a decal setting solution designed for model kit decals. And like Andyfalzon states, success cannot be guaranteed, he also says different leathers will probably behave in different ways. That being said, combined experience of 35 years making models, using nearly all the materials made for them and the airbrush industry, and also working with countless types of leather, my theory will probably work. Got lots of trial and error in the past. Conceivably, if the most textured piece of leather I have shows good results, just about anything else will as well.

Not sure if original AAF decals were stenciled, more likely that they were screen printed.

 

[a2jacketpatches]

In advance of restoring an original jacket ( decal, back art, leather painted wings, and painted Squadron Patch ) I experimented with my theory that scale model decal setting solution would do the job. The following is a step by step using a Garcia decal, Microscale brand red label MICROSOL setting solutionand, a piece of JC's pebbled russet goatskin.

Step one - your surface must be lean and dry, one quick wipe down with 70% rubbing alcohol and let dry for a while, don't wipe more as you'll risk reactivating the finish of the leather, all your doing is cleaning the immediate surface. I chose this type of leather because of the serious grain, if I can get this right, anything else should be a breeze.


Step two - Have your materials ready ( soft clean brush, decal, setting solution ) Let the decal soak in warm water for about 5 minutes. I'd recommend cutting off the Army Air Force and doing it separately because when I did this as one piece the extension dragged behind as I carefully slid the decal off the backing and on to the leather. I had to mess with it a bit to position them correctly.


Step three - Apply a liberal amount of the solution to the area, it will soak in but that's ok, the chemical will remain on top to a degree and soften the film from underneath.



Step four - After applying the decal, positioning carefully, you'll have less than a minute to move it around before it starts to stick. Once in position let it set for about 5 minutes and then carefully puddle on a liberal amount of setting solution.



Step five - Now just let the solution work for about an hour, here's what happens as the stuff evaporates and the decal begins to settle into the texture.



All done, very happy with the results and I'm guessing it's on better than the originals were.

 

[Dixon Cannon]

a2jacketpatches - Thanks for that demo! Heck, I may try my own decals now (just removing the black AAF lettering). You make it look like childs play! -dixon cannon

 

[ButteMT61]

Nice job! Thanks for posting that up.

 

[bn1966]

Cheers for that..very useful.

 

[Otter]

That made it look easy, thanks for taking the time to post that!:eusa_clap

 

[devilish]

Thank you for putting that up. Good information. I remember from my childhood days that the water slides were a little tricky but not that bad. The setting solution seems to make it a fair bit easier. I'm actually a little bit bummed that my love for early A-2 contracts means I really shouldn't have a decal. I do like the way they look. I'm glad my thread had good timing with that decal tutorial though, hopefully it will help other folks out with their process.

 

[Stand By]

Nice demo there, A2... Micro Sol is such good stuff. S'good to see those modelling skills being transferred ! (if you'll forgive the pun!)
Please give us an update on how the decal looks after some time and wear and the weather's been at it ... I'd be most interested to see it again.
Thanks.

 

[Stand By]

No problem. Its good to spread those books around IMO.If those books had been tossed around like the Communist Manifesto, the world would be a better place. Btw I hate the notion of karma.

Hi Nick,
BTW, in return for your kindness regarding the books, at the weekend I bought a nice NASCAR kit to send down to the Wounded Warrior Program in San Antonio, TX. Although it's a skill level 3, I figured it'd still be easy to do - spray the chassis gloss black and put the decals on and it's done and it'll look very cool on someone's shelf.
Thanks again!

 

[nick123]

Should have bought a plane

 

[Stand By]

Should have bought a plane

It almost was. But I had to consider mailing - and find a kit in a sensibly sized box where the parts wouldn't rattle around en route and they'd get there all off the sprues.
I also wondered about getting something military - are these guys a bit sensitive to that? Might be tricky. I don't know. I really looked at a new Iron Man kit - and the easiest to paint was the War Machine variant - but I thought I'd better err on keeping it off even that, even though it's not "real".
So I went for something else entirely that looked cool and was very American - and what guy doesn't like cars at some level? It seemed like the safest bet.
But this won't be the last kit I send... so a plane next time.