This is the subtitle of the book, "The Game" mentioned in a thread by Matt Deckerd. It switched to a discussion if the word cad, so I thought I would start a thread on the subculture of the "pick up" gurus. With the rise of the internet, it is a growing phenomenon, with roots in a few alt chat boards back in the early days of the net.
I wanted to post when I had some time, as this is a subject of interest to me. When I got out of my last relationship, I did some thinking and decided that I needed to learn to meet (pick up would be too negatively charged) women at will.
I have had some great girlfriends and attractive girlfriends too. I have also never found it particularly hard to end up in intimate, but less than committed relationships shall we say.
But I have never been any good at meeting women. through friends and such has always been my pattern.
But I always envied guys that could meet women and always felt bad about what I consider lack of self esteem and lack of skills. What I mean is, I want to be in a mental place where if I see a woman I want to meet, I can meet her. If she is not into me, or married or whatever, fine. But I hate the idea that I might miss a chance due to fear and lack of skill. I also hate the idea that I can only choose from the women who I somehow get introduced to or approach me (rare)
It feels very disempoewring. I want the power of being able to meet anyone I would like and make a good impression and if they are interested, see where it goes.
With that in mind, I have become a bit of a student of some of the various gurus so called. I will give a brief rundown. Even if you don't know them, it is a good insight. While it is tempting to see them all as sleazy and manipulative, I see it akin to books on sales skills. It is an attempt to help guys who do not have the skills to have the skills of the guys who are naturally good with women.
Neill Strauss. The Game was mentioned by Matt Deckard. Very interesting. I loved it as it was intriguing, funny and I like the author a lot. As a journalist, he was able to make it a good story with a certain bit of classic cautionary tale. Portraying his frined, Mystery, as ultimately going down the wrong path and being very unhappy. Mystery learned to be attractive to women but neverseemed to believe in himself much. The personal transformation Neil Strauss underwent by learning to trust and believe in himself is amazing. These days, he focus mostly on self esteem. Rightly so. Self esteem trumps all techniques and tricks. He is also very good at opening sets. that is what they call approaching a group. Attractive women are rarely alone, standing around waiting for aguy to approach them. But if you can approach a group, win over the guys and identify who is the leader of the women's group, and get her approval, then the woman you want to meet will feel comfortable with you and her friends will not try to block you. If you look at photos of Neil Strauss on line back when he was a nerdy rock journalist versus now, especially if you see video, you can not help but be impressed wiht his transformation.
Mystery. Strauss's friend. Very intelligent and interesting guy. But ultimately, he seems to have gotten too caught up in trying to make up for lack of self steem. WHile he is a very astute study of human behavior, his relyance on tricks nad techniques seems too false. It is a way of pretending to be confidant, not really being confidant. On the other hand, his techniques can give a guy a start in having a little success to build self esteem on. Famous for inventing the controversial "Neg" which is either a way to bring her down in status a little bit to your level, or a playful way to demonstrate you are not too concerned what she thinks of you depending on who you talk to. I consider them cheap tricks. Also very concerned about establishing status. This is not all manipulative. If you walk into a bar and greet and meet a lot of people, by the end of the night women will see you a a guy that everyone likes. Not so bad really because this is what naturally popular people do naturally. Mystery is the guy behind the tv show "the pick up artist. Possibly a victim of his own success in that his techniques, I have heard here and there, sometimes don't work so well because women say "oh, is this like from that tv show?" On a final note, while I applaud him for his personal growth, it can be hard to identify completly with a guy who is 6'4 and wears heeled boots to be 6'7 and dresses outrageously and hangs out in LA clubs. He is bound to be noticed. Mysterly also invented the idea of peacocking. That is, dressing outrageously or very stylishly. I suspect some women like it and some don't. But I guess the guys of this forum can relate a little. Dressing very well would fit into the idea of peococking. Standing out one way or another.
David DeAngelo. Very popular guy. Has many e-books and videos and gives seminars. He is another guy who went from being very unsuccessful to successful at meeting women. His technique is mainly, Cocky Funny. He believes in being cocky and teasing a girl like your kid sister. But you have to be playful and funny. I belive it can work, but do not care for it. It seems to me to be pretending to be confidend enough to say whatvever you want. Not the same as real confidance. I guess it can be preferable to a guy who is afraid to say anything but the blandest compliments. He does talk alot about "inner game" which is building your own self confidence and having a life outside of women. In other words, be interesting. De Angelo also believes men have to get back to being traditoanal men and not wissues, (somewhat true) but he stresses that you alwasy have to keep it up and the moment you show some sensitivity she will dump you. Naturally, if you act like someone you are not, then meet women, you will only be with women who like the pretend you, not the real you.
Joseph Matthews has an e-book I like called the art of the approach. It is not so much about pick up lines but about having something interesting to say when you meet a woman. Also one of the proponents of the five second rule. Not about eating food off the floor. It means, if you see someone you want to talk to you have five seconds to approach. If you wait longer, you can either talk yourself out of it, (so true) develop too much anxiety to be relaxed and normal, and if you wait too long then approach you can come off as creepy. I now this is true. Can't say why but I think most women agree.
Juggler. My favorite. I am reading his e-book. He is so different from the rest. He is about building natural charisma, self esteem and a little understanding of human nature. My favorite idea is that women do not want a guy to like them before you meet them. they want to be able to impress you and beliked for who they are, not for how good they look or because they are a woman. He believes a man's goal should be to be funny, interesting and fun enough to allow a woman to feel comfortable to show you who they are. Then give them positive feedback (if deserved) for who they show you they are. makes so much sense to me. Also a big believer in having fun and meeting a lot of people.
there is a guy name Zan who is well known. Seems creepy to me. He talks a lot about "loving women and the essence of women" and such. I love people and I love the woman I am with, I do not "love women" maybe it is just me and maybe I am not conveying it as his web site does. But he just seems weird. Appeals a lot to guys who want to be nice and are put off by some of the gurus who seem to advocate being mean or insulting. I can certainly understand their concerns. He does stress confidance and belief in yourself.
There are others I have seen on line. None that pop to mind.
I would like to stress that while some of what some of the gurus say is or seems manipulative and sleazy, much of it is about self esteem, being interesting, having something to say when you meet a woman, standing out and seeming to have status, as in people like you and respond well to you and not always being afraid of speaking your mind or saying something that might offend.
I have been doing some reading and perusing on line and plan to start practicing this summer when I am less busy. In other words, going out at night or day and instead of just keeping to myself or sitting with my friends in the corner, I want to approach people and meet them. Especially women. Seattle is a hard place to do to do that as they tend to be standoffish. It is called the Seattle Freeze and is well documented, although anecdotal.
I hope no one takes this wrong as in thinking I am out to be a cad in the old sense of the word. Far from it. I just want to power to meet anyone I want so will never feel like I am settling or will never see a woman I find attractive (so much more than just physical beauty) and have to wonder what could be or wish I could meet her. My goal is to believe I am worth knowing and that I am doing someone a favor by sharing myself with them. All people should feel this way. Then if someone doesn't like me, fine I will just move on to someone who dies.
Anyway, hope this is interesting to you.
I wanted to post when I had some time, as this is a subject of interest to me. When I got out of my last relationship, I did some thinking and decided that I needed to learn to meet (pick up would be too negatively charged) women at will.
I have had some great girlfriends and attractive girlfriends too. I have also never found it particularly hard to end up in intimate, but less than committed relationships shall we say.
But I have never been any good at meeting women. through friends and such has always been my pattern.
But I always envied guys that could meet women and always felt bad about what I consider lack of self esteem and lack of skills. What I mean is, I want to be in a mental place where if I see a woman I want to meet, I can meet her. If she is not into me, or married or whatever, fine. But I hate the idea that I might miss a chance due to fear and lack of skill. I also hate the idea that I can only choose from the women who I somehow get introduced to or approach me (rare)
It feels very disempoewring. I want the power of being able to meet anyone I would like and make a good impression and if they are interested, see where it goes.
With that in mind, I have become a bit of a student of some of the various gurus so called. I will give a brief rundown. Even if you don't know them, it is a good insight. While it is tempting to see them all as sleazy and manipulative, I see it akin to books on sales skills. It is an attempt to help guys who do not have the skills to have the skills of the guys who are naturally good with women.
Neill Strauss. The Game was mentioned by Matt Deckard. Very interesting. I loved it as it was intriguing, funny and I like the author a lot. As a journalist, he was able to make it a good story with a certain bit of classic cautionary tale. Portraying his frined, Mystery, as ultimately going down the wrong path and being very unhappy. Mystery learned to be attractive to women but neverseemed to believe in himself much. The personal transformation Neil Strauss underwent by learning to trust and believe in himself is amazing. These days, he focus mostly on self esteem. Rightly so. Self esteem trumps all techniques and tricks. He is also very good at opening sets. that is what they call approaching a group. Attractive women are rarely alone, standing around waiting for aguy to approach them. But if you can approach a group, win over the guys and identify who is the leader of the women's group, and get her approval, then the woman you want to meet will feel comfortable with you and her friends will not try to block you. If you look at photos of Neil Strauss on line back when he was a nerdy rock journalist versus now, especially if you see video, you can not help but be impressed wiht his transformation.
Mystery. Strauss's friend. Very intelligent and interesting guy. But ultimately, he seems to have gotten too caught up in trying to make up for lack of self steem. WHile he is a very astute study of human behavior, his relyance on tricks nad techniques seems too false. It is a way of pretending to be confidant, not really being confidant. On the other hand, his techniques can give a guy a start in having a little success to build self esteem on. Famous for inventing the controversial "Neg" which is either a way to bring her down in status a little bit to your level, or a playful way to demonstrate you are not too concerned what she thinks of you depending on who you talk to. I consider them cheap tricks. Also very concerned about establishing status. This is not all manipulative. If you walk into a bar and greet and meet a lot of people, by the end of the night women will see you a a guy that everyone likes. Not so bad really because this is what naturally popular people do naturally. Mystery is the guy behind the tv show "the pick up artist. Possibly a victim of his own success in that his techniques, I have heard here and there, sometimes don't work so well because women say "oh, is this like from that tv show?" On a final note, while I applaud him for his personal growth, it can be hard to identify completly with a guy who is 6'4 and wears heeled boots to be 6'7 and dresses outrageously and hangs out in LA clubs. He is bound to be noticed. Mysterly also invented the idea of peacocking. That is, dressing outrageously or very stylishly. I suspect some women like it and some don't. But I guess the guys of this forum can relate a little. Dressing very well would fit into the idea of peococking. Standing out one way or another.
David DeAngelo. Very popular guy. Has many e-books and videos and gives seminars. He is another guy who went from being very unsuccessful to successful at meeting women. His technique is mainly, Cocky Funny. He believes in being cocky and teasing a girl like your kid sister. But you have to be playful and funny. I belive it can work, but do not care for it. It seems to me to be pretending to be confidend enough to say whatvever you want. Not the same as real confidance. I guess it can be preferable to a guy who is afraid to say anything but the blandest compliments. He does talk alot about "inner game" which is building your own self confidence and having a life outside of women. In other words, be interesting. De Angelo also believes men have to get back to being traditoanal men and not wissues, (somewhat true) but he stresses that you alwasy have to keep it up and the moment you show some sensitivity she will dump you. Naturally, if you act like someone you are not, then meet women, you will only be with women who like the pretend you, not the real you.
Joseph Matthews has an e-book I like called the art of the approach. It is not so much about pick up lines but about having something interesting to say when you meet a woman. Also one of the proponents of the five second rule. Not about eating food off the floor. It means, if you see someone you want to talk to you have five seconds to approach. If you wait longer, you can either talk yourself out of it, (so true) develop too much anxiety to be relaxed and normal, and if you wait too long then approach you can come off as creepy. I now this is true. Can't say why but I think most women agree.
Juggler. My favorite. I am reading his e-book. He is so different from the rest. He is about building natural charisma, self esteem and a little understanding of human nature. My favorite idea is that women do not want a guy to like them before you meet them. they want to be able to impress you and beliked for who they are, not for how good they look or because they are a woman. He believes a man's goal should be to be funny, interesting and fun enough to allow a woman to feel comfortable to show you who they are. Then give them positive feedback (if deserved) for who they show you they are. makes so much sense to me. Also a big believer in having fun and meeting a lot of people.
there is a guy name Zan who is well known. Seems creepy to me. He talks a lot about "loving women and the essence of women" and such. I love people and I love the woman I am with, I do not "love women" maybe it is just me and maybe I am not conveying it as his web site does. But he just seems weird. Appeals a lot to guys who want to be nice and are put off by some of the gurus who seem to advocate being mean or insulting. I can certainly understand their concerns. He does stress confidance and belief in yourself.
There are others I have seen on line. None that pop to mind.
I would like to stress that while some of what some of the gurus say is or seems manipulative and sleazy, much of it is about self esteem, being interesting, having something to say when you meet a woman, standing out and seeming to have status, as in people like you and respond well to you and not always being afraid of speaking your mind or saying something that might offend.
I have been doing some reading and perusing on line and plan to start practicing this summer when I am less busy. In other words, going out at night or day and instead of just keeping to myself or sitting with my friends in the corner, I want to approach people and meet them. Especially women. Seattle is a hard place to do to do that as they tend to be standoffish. It is called the Seattle Freeze and is well documented, although anecdotal.
I hope no one takes this wrong as in thinking I am out to be a cad in the old sense of the word. Far from it. I just want to power to meet anyone I want so will never feel like I am settling or will never see a woman I find attractive (so much more than just physical beauty) and have to wonder what could be or wish I could meet her. My goal is to believe I am worth knowing and that I am doing someone a favor by sharing myself with them. All people should feel this way. Then if someone doesn't like me, fine I will just move on to someone who dies.
Anyway, hope this is interesting to you.
