A Painless Classical Education

[Paisley]

Thanks, DHermann. I'll check out the Atlantic Monthly. I just read an article in the paper that described some letters from single women homesteaders published in that mag.

I'd just like to point out one thing for all the lovers of rigor: some teachers and authors cannot explain their way out of a wet paper bag. For me, that was a big part of what often made my education difficult and frustrating. For example, I took a course in trigonometry, and while I passed it, I didn't have a grasp of it. But my calculus II teacher took the time to explain the concepts to me. I learned more from her in 45 minutes than I had in a whole semester on the subject. It was all the trigonometry I've ever needed. With a good teacher, it's difficult but satisfying.

 

[Orgetorix]

I just picked up The Birth of the Modern: World Society 1815-1830 by Paul Johnson at a used book store. I also got a book of opera librettos.

Johnson is somewhat unusual in placing the beginning of the modern period so early; most locate it in the last quarter of the 19th century or opening years of the 20th.

If you can find a station that carries them and have your Saturday afternoons free, the (New York) Metropolitan Opera's Live from the Met broadcasts are great.

 

[manton]

Johnson is somewhat unusual in placing the beginning of the modern period so early; most locate it in the last quarter of the 19th century or opening years of the 20th.

The modern age begins in 1513.

 

[pigeon toe]

As for art, the best way to learn it is to go out and experience it. Go to museums and read all those little plaques by each piece, or go for the audio tour. Check out any free events going on at the museums at night, its great to hear an artist speak (well, either great or very, very boring, but it's worth a shot!). Always check out the museum book store too. I can spend hours sometimes just looking through photography books.

And if you're feeling up to it, create art yourself! It doesn't matter if you have no idea what you're doing, just express yourself, experiment and see what happens!

If you want to learn from a book though, I really recommend Art in Theory by Charles Harrison. It's a collection of a billion different essays and is totally amazing. I particularly enjoyed it because I felt a lot of the essays are really applicable to creating art today. I didn't enjoy many of the readings in my art history classes because I felt they were just facts -- I enjoy theory much more and this book really gives you some interesting stuff to try and wrap your head around.

As for American History, I find the best way to learn is to find a small sector of history that you're interested in and read a book on it. For instance, I'm interested in feminism, gender and pop culture. I can find a plethora of books that include those topics and American history, and they are a blast to read because I'm into the subject, and I end up learning so much more than I set out to. I find that focusing in on what you love is the best way to make learning less painful and more beneficial.

 

[Joie DeVive]

For experiencing art, have you seen the DAM (Denver Art Museum) lately? I went this summer, and it's quite nice. I prefer the old section to the new one myself, but I'm kind of a sucker for the historical and folkart pieces....
They have a nice collection of historical and classical art over in the old section, and some Monet as well as a bunch of modern in the new.

I also hear the Titanic exhibit is coming to the Denver Museum of Nature and Science. I think that's the one my friend saw while it was on the coast. She was quite impressed. I can't wait to take a peek myself!

Joie

 

[pigeon toe]

I also hear the Titanic exhibit is coming to the Denver Museum of Nature and Science. I think that's the one my friend saw while it was on the coast. She was quite impressed. I can't wait to take a peek myself!

Ooh you're lucky. I would have loved to have seen that!

 

[Elaina]

DAM was a surprising treasure of everything. I was pleasantly shocked at the great works they have there from art to furniture and textiles.

 

[Orgetorix]

The modern age begins in 1513.

Only to Straussians.

 

[manton]

Only to Straussians.

Eh, not really, most historians (since Burckhardt at least) place the beginning of the modern era at about 1500.

 

[Paisley]

I haven't been to the Denver Art Museum in a long time, although I work a few blocks from it. Once I catch up on some things that I let slide while I wasn't feeling well, I'll go back there.

BTW, they have a world-class collection of Native American artifacts.

 

[jake_fink]

I don't know if you can get what can be called an education without someone to act as guide, mentor, animateur or whatever. I mean, I can tell you to sit down and read Ulysses, but without someone to put the book in context, to talk with about it, to guide you through the tougher bits and enthuse about the great ones you're not really getting an education, you're just struggling through a big, tough book. [huh]

What can you do but throw another book at that one?

Ulysses on the Liffey by Richard Ellman might help to start with.

 

[Orgetorix]

Eh, not really, most historians (since Burckhardt at least) place the beginning of the modern era at about 1500.

Well, I'm more than willing to concede the point. No doubt you know a lot more about it than I do.

I was repeating something I'd read elsewhere recently, though for the life of me I can't remember where now. Maybe they were using "modern" in a different sense. Anyway, it just goes to show I shouldn't ignorantly repeat other people's words when I haven't thought them through for myself. Now, why didn't I learn that in my classical education?

 

[manton]

I was repeating something I'd read elsewhere recently, though for the life of me I can't remember where now. Maybe they were using "modern" in a different sense.

Historians generally put the "classical" or ancient period from about 1200 BC to maybe 400 AD; the "medieval" period or Middle Ages from 400 to around 1450 or 1500 at the latest, and the "modern" period from then on.

There are indeed various ways to define modern, but certain things to set the Renaissance and post Renaissance world apart from what preceded it, including but not limited to: the age of exploration; a re-interest in ancient philosophy, not fused with Christian theology; the birth of the nation state; increasing technological advances; the Reformation; and the decline in the power of the Church.

"Straussians" like me also point to the end of specifically Christian metaphysics, and the break with ancient philosophy in favor of a new way of thinking that is specifically modern and unprecedented.

 

[Orgetorix]

Thanks for the explanation. That's helpful.

I apologize, too, for the gibe about Straussians. No insult intended. I have the utmost respect for you all and have benefitted from Straussian thought immensely (two of my college professors were students of Ceaser and Jaffa).

 

[manton]

(two of my college professors were students of Ceaser and Jaffa).

Jim's daughter works in my building

Jaffa I know very, very well. Cranky, vain, brilliant old man.

 

[Paisley]

I don't know if you can get what can be called an education without someone to act as guide, mentor, animateur or whatever.

What I'm doing is really just to satisfy my own desires. I have an education (albeit a more scientific one) and just wish to expand on it in the areas I didn't study. I mean, it's better than marathon TV watching, right? And I'm sure my reading and museum trips will bring me to places and people I wouldn't have met otherwise.

Everyone has been very kind to take the time to make recommendations. I'll refer back to this thread for a long time to come.

 

[Orgetorix]

Jim's daughter works in my building

Jaffa I know very, very well. Cranky, vain, brilliant old man.

Cool.

 

[Paisley]

Maybe it's time for the Fedora Lounge to have a room for intellectual pursuits. We could discuss books, history, philosophy, art, film (not movies), museums, science, and, of course, the modern era.

 

[Martinis at 8]

Paisley,

You can have your cake and eat it too! I disagree with those that say a classical education requires "sufferring". It does not. And by definition, a classical education is not an in depth education at all. It is a survey education designed to make one "worldly".

Fortunately, thanks to modern technology, brought about engineers such as yourself, the resources are available to provide a classical education to you and the world, and not necessarily a shallow one, as many will opine. There are many companies with books on tape/CD for learning the classic literature, great philosophers, world history, art history, languages, etc. Communication and travel are very affordable these days, and the world is at our fingertips and just a short drive to the airport.

My undergraduate education was based on the Renaissance Man concept, which included an engineering education. However, I find the resources available to us today to be of much more value, then discussing the plight of Pangloss during a classroom session.

Cheers,

M8

P.S. The Socratic method is nonsense. There's a reason that Socrates was murdered. He was a punk who only asked questions in an antagonistic manner. He never wrote anything either. If it wasn't for Plato, Socrates would not even be a historical footnote. So there!

 

[Novella]

Oh, another book came to mind -

The American Political Tradition: And the Men Who Made it by Richard Hofstadter

It was a book for an American history class I took a year ago. When I got the book I was hesistant to read it because it sounded dry and boring to me (I prefer pop culture to politics when it comes to history). It's actually a pretty engaging read though. It's also a book that's easier to carry around than the other two I recommended.