A new way to measure a hat

[carldelo]

Reading the recent thread by Dumbjaw, who is the latest victim of a measurement-challenged ebay seller got me thinking. I was thinking that the easiest way for a clueless yokel to measure the size of a hat is to measure the circumference around the OUTSIDE of the hat, where the ribbon meets the brim. So I tried that with all of my hats (7 at the time) to see what would happen. The answer, I found to be pretty amazing. Without exception, the circumference measurement around the outside of the hat was exactly 1 inch bigger than the innner circumference - this is with no allowance for ribbons, bows, felt thickness, etc. So to find the hat size, I just subtracted 1" from the outer circumference and divided by PI. For the metric hat size, just measure in centimeters and subtract 2.5 cm - it's that simple.

In fact, the method revealed that three of my hats are 7-3/4 exactly, one is about a third of a size bigger, two are 7-5/8, and one has shrunk over time to 7-1/2. I'm still amazed this works, especially considering that I'm measuring felt, straw, corduroy, etc. This could be a very easy question to ask a seller - to wrap a string around the outside of the crown and measure it, rather than trying to do a very difficult inner circumference measurement.

Clearly, my data is only good for my own hats. So I put it out to fellow loungers: will those people out there who have a fabric tape reproduce my method and see if the results are consistent - does the outer tape measurement minus 1 inch give the correct hat size for your inventory?

Cheers, Carl

PS: I forgot to mention how I measured the inner circumference for comparison - I put each hat gently on a hat stretcher, cranked it out until the hat fit normally (like on my head) then measured the circumference around the hat stretcher where the bottom of the hat was - at the base of the stretcher.

 

[kaosharper1]

It might be easier to have the seller do the length and width of the opening and use an ellipse calculator to calculate the circumference. For instance, 8" by 6.5" gives approximately 23" or 7 3/8.

I like using this one:

http://www.csgnetwork.com/circumellipse.html

 

[carldelo]

Nice

I haven't seen that before, I like it. Of course, that depends on how elliptical the hat happens to be when the measurement is taken; I would imagine it's fairly close. But to accurately give the hat size, a circumference has to be accurate to at least 3/8", which is less than 2% of a 22" measurement. That's pretty high accuracy. So how about it: are you going to measure your hats for my study?

 

[kaosharper1]

You'd have to be off by 1/4" on one side or 1/8" on both diameters in order to get that kind of error, so I think it's pretty precise. BTW your measurement would add in the width of the felt. I don't know exactly how thick the felt is (plus the ribbon), but if it's 0.25" so that the oval is 8.25x6.75then the circumference goes from 22.89" to 23.68." There also may be the curve at the base from the flange to take into account.

Anyway, its another option since most people have a straight ruler. The shape of the oval shouldn't make much of a difference.

This weekend I'll try measuring my hats to look at your method.

 

[suitedcboy]

Few hats I have seen are ellipses.
The front and rear of any of mine are distinctly different radii.

 

[kaosharper1]

Few hats I have seen are ellipses.
The front and rear of any of mine are distinctly different radii.

I'm not sure what you mean. Ellipses and ovals are the same thing, and all my hats are ovals (ellipses). I'm a 7 3/8 and all my hats fit within these measurements except for my Akubra Adventurer which runs a little big so its not 8.0x6.5.

Either way, the error would be small and I've confirmed that this calculator works for my hats which are admittedly all 7 3/8.

 

[bolthead]

Painters Tape....

Another easy tip is using that Blue Painters Tape.....to measure the inside circumference accurately. The reason for Blue Painters Tape? It doesn't stick too bad and won't peel off gold leaf lettering or mar the leather sweat, etc....

Anyway, just tape around the sweatband and put your reference mark. Take the tape off, lay it out flat and measure it with a ruler to get a precise and accurate measurement of that particular hat. [huh]

 

[Tom-n-Perris]

It might be easier to have the seller do the length and width of the opening and use an ellipse calculator to calculate the circumference. For instance, 8" by 6.5" gives approximately 23" or 7 3/8.

I like using this one:

http://www.csgnetwork.com/circumellipse.html

I agree with Kaosharper1 the ellipse calculator to calculate the circumference has been a very accurate tool for me. I tested it out on several of my hats and found it to be very accurate for my noggin toppers.

Hats are like potato chips, you just can't have one!

 

[mannySpaghetti]

I've also been troubled with incorrect measurements through ebaY sellers myself as that's where all my hats are bought. As a casual seller of hats I devised a way that suited me quite well and also gave my patrons a chance to see for themselves the method I use. I consider it to be rather accurate and have never received a complaint of faulty measurement. I actually took the time to make a ruler from posterboard which I place within the hat and once spread and firmly in place, securing it down with clamps and taking a photo to include with my description.

It's a bit of a pain in the arse to make, but well worth the time I think. Especially if you sell hats as well.

 

[funneman]

 

[kaosharper1]

Oval and Ellipse definitions for clarity

Usually oval means two hemicircles joined by straight lines (think race track). Hats are not perfectly oval, but I think that they are generally more oval than elliptical. My head is actually oval in back, elliptical in front.

Just for the sake of clarity, this is not totally correct. While ovals and ellipses are not identical, an oval is really egg shaped which is a special kind of assymetric ellipse. An ellipse is a cross section of a cone where the length and width are unequal, unlike a circle where the diameters in both direction are equal. Hats are usually more elliptical. Note the two wikipedia definitions below.

Ellipse:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellipse

Oval:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oval

I think heads are generally ovals, but hats are usually elliptical as a close approximation. Look at the pictures and you'll see what I mean.

 

[carldelo]

OK, you thread derailers...

I'm pretty well up to speed on how to measure the inside of a hat properly using either a very stiff ruler or clamping/clipping a fabric tape to the inside of the sweatband. The blue painter's tape method is interesting. I think my Hat-Jack method is the easiest - adjust the Hat-Jack, then measure its circumference.

The ellipse calculator was a new one on me. I just ran the numbers on the same 7 hats, and the results were either 1 or 2 sizes smaller than the actual hat size. I think that means that my head, and therefore my hats are not that close to elliptical. Looking at my hats, the shape is fuller than an ellipse, so the circumference is bigger than an ellipse with equivalent major and minor axes.

Anyway, the point of this thread was to solicit some of you out there to measure the outside circumference of your hats and give me the measurements along with the hat size and actual circumference, if known. I still think it would be easier to request a seller to measure the outside circ. of a hat than trying to get them to paperclip a fabric tape to the inside of the hat. So, anyone have 15 minutes to measure up a half dozen hats?

 

[mannySpaghetti]

I considered doing that once. Thing is, I didn't want to take a chance of scratching the leather. The paper yard stick method I use is very gentle since some of the hats that I've sold has had some delicate headbands.

 

[Dinerman]

What are you attaching those clamps to? there doesn't seem like there should be anything to clamp to on that side of an unreeded sweatband without damaging the stitching.

 

[mannySpaghetti]

What are you attaching those clamps to? there doesn't seem like there should be anything to clamp to on that side of an unreeded sweatband without damaging the stitching.

The clamp is attached to the paper yardstick. What I do is insert the yardstick then spread it until it's nice and taught, then I attach the clamp securing the end. the only thing that touches the headband is the posterboard the stick's made out of, that's why it's much gentler. Works great.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Oval is not strictly defined as elllipse is, so it comes down to whether you go by etymology (the Latin "egg" origin for the word), or by common usage. I think common usage is the racetrack definition, two hemicircles connected by straight lines.

Depends where you're at. I would think the most common use (except for "like an egg") in the UK if someone were asked to define "oval", would be "The home of Surrey County Cricket Club", where the grass is indeed roughly egg-shaped. (well, i'll be honest, not many people will be able to name Surrey CCC but they'll all know that cricket is played at "The Oval".

There aren't any oval racetracks in the UK, that i know of. Maybe for cycling.



Re: the new way to measure a hat. It sounds like an interesting idea and i'll check it out on my own hats. Just when you've all got the eBay sellers trained into taking inner measurements, too. I still prefer the front to back and side to side. You don't even need to work out the circumference.

bk

 

[daizawaguy]

Hey Fedorissamo`s.....surely an easier way is to look at the tag in the hat that has the size....seems that would save a lot of trouble, or am I missing something!!??lol lol lol

 

[cookie]

Hey Fedorissamo`s.....surely an easier way is to look at the tag in the hat that has the size....seems that would save a lot of trouble, or am I missing something!!??lol lol lol

That's an understatement!

 

[Lefty]

Hats can shrink
Size tags often fall out, are torn out, or are unreadable.

 

[daizawaguy]

That was a joke by the way...seems that the topic was getting very technical. But FUN anyway, not complaining!